I got a two weapon ranger in another game. Longsword/Warhammer and shield build, but two weapon fighting so she can bash with the shield, too. Ironically, she's the party tank with 20 AC at 2nd level with shield focus. Good stuff. But then, she's a half orc with strength 18 so... yeah. When she hits she kicks some major ass.
My kingmaker game has the sword&board monster from hell: Marcus Muri, straight vanilla fighter, with the damage potential to end level-appropriate dragons in a single full-attack. And the AC to make said dragons miss on most anything but a 20. Built right, you can get Shield Master on lv6, which more or less MAKES two-weapon shield combat.
Then again, with that character, she is the party tank. Valcrim's build is really AC heavy, and he's not going for the healer type cleric, but the martial type. Sure, he ain't gonna be hitting much with that build, but it's going to be considerably difficult for most things to hit him. At lest until he has slots free for Divine Favor, etc.
Levels 1 and 2, my combat potential will be +2/3 to hit, and 1d8+2 damage before Inspire Courage or Magic Weapon. Then at lv3 power attack kicks in, and I get access to Bulls Strength. Given one round to cast it, and if I have had time to make a mw hammer, I go to +6 to hit, and 1d8+6, or +9 if I drop the shield. For boss fights, I will likely cast Shield and swing with both hands.
But damage is not my main mission. Defense is. And if the enemies fail a will save against Compel Hostility, they have to come for me, and likely flail impotently against the impenetrable fortress of dwarven steel. On later levels I might well be dangerous if I have the time to waste two or three rounds on buffs.
Edit: Oh gods, I just realized that battle clerics are Goku from Dragon Ball Z: Let the rest of the party get beaten to a pulp while he stands back and powers up, and get all upset that everyone is getting beaten. Then come and steamroll over the enemy.
And yes, bard's inspire is much better than bless, as it adds to damage as well, and they do not stack. Although the time on bless is superior at one minute per level, as in "Oh, our scout sees something ahead, I'll go ahead and cast this now before we engage and it'll keep running through the encounter."
Indeed. Bless is more tenacious. But inspire courage gets better with time, and with that one bard spell that doubles morale bonuses for a round, it can become quite terrifying. Also, the time I am not spending on casting Bless can certainly be well utilized.
Treygan - still wondering about paladin of holy light? My husband played one once. Our GM nerfed his abilities further than the RAW
He also thinks that the paladin is the most broken class in the game, and yes, he knows that the wizard exists. And yes, he knows the party wizard in my Kingmaker campaign EASILY could defeat the entire party if he had the mind to do so. But I guess being effective against big bad bosses is just too terrible. He also thinks magical items should be rare... in a game where 80% of the hero classes have some manner of magical ability, and commoners with two feats can craft their own items, regardless of spellcasting ability. So he is quite in his own world...
I think Bless is a nice early spell, but later, once the +1 morale bonus is less attractive, 1st level slots can be filled with things like Divine Favor that actually scale. I hear what you're saying about action economy though. Always a big trade off with buffs.
I do like that they made Inspire Courage a competence bonus in Pathfinder so that it stacks with spells like Bless and Heroism. That's a big boon for bards.
I do actually really like the Warrior of Holy Light, but man, Bless Weapon + Scimitar = Awesome.
At any rate, I was thinking about taking the Heart of the Fields racial (it would replace Skilled). The bonus to Craft (Alchemy) would be really nice. My only question: Which skill do I give up? My inclination is to drop Knowledge (Arcana), as Seiji is hardly an arcane scholar. Would that be weird, though, not to have that as an alchemist? Seiji has a more "natural philosophy" approach to his science, but it still feels funny.
Actually bless and inspire don't stack as they're both morale bonuses, as I understand it.
Heart of the Fields is good. Why would a Tian man want to identify dragons, anyway? *laughs*
Huh, did not catch that one. Inspire Courage gives a morale bonus to the fear save, and a competence to attack and damage. Then I will prepare bless instead of magic weapon or protection from evil, for greater synergy.
Divine favor gives me a +1/+1, and bless gives everyone a +1/+0, so I don't see DF outdo bless in usefulness until it gives +3/+3. If there were more noncombatants, like wizards and oracles, DF would be better much sooner. Might be one of the first Quickened spells I prepare when we hit 9.
Seiji: Don't you already get your level as a bonus to craft (alchemy) from being an alchemist? And with "Making Craft Work", crafting does not take so ridiculously long.
Also, knowledge arcana covers many of the the pseudo-natural sciences in the world, therein alchemy lore, monstrous humanoids, magical beasts and such. I would sooner drop appraise, but that is just my 2cp.
I agree with Falcrim that appraise might be a better skill to cut, it helps but not as much as Kno:Arc...that said I have the knowledge: arcana thing in hand...maybe you don't know much about it...yet ;-) From an RP point of view it makes plenty of sense. Plenty of examples in the world of people who just figured crap out over time with no education. Just because you don't have ranks now doesn't mean you won't ever it just means that Seiji figured out his alchemical stuff on his own and doesn't know a lot of "theory".
Hwve we gotten the official green light on "Making Craft Work"? and how about that third trait while we are talking about it? I think like Valcrim was saying if it wasn't combat oriented it would just make us a little more flavorful....heh :-)
Sure, greenlight on the third trait if its flavor
Greenlight on Making Craft work as well.
Goodie. Now I gotta figure out which dwarven specific trait I should settle on. Because when I finally come around and PLAY a dwarf (rare enough occurrence in and of itself) I should do it all the way.
Mostly stuck between grounded, eldritch smith and clearheaded, which are all pretty Torag-thematic traits.
Prehensile Whip here I come! *Insert Indiana Jones Theme HERE*
Now Joyabraund will be loud AND a nuisance at the same TIME! Woo hoo!
Edit: Grounded seems like a good thematic fit Valcrim. Fits your personality as presented.
LOL.
How are the wife and little one?
Prehensile whip is great. Also, consider Scorpion Whip from Adventurers Armory, basically a whip that can be used for proper combat.
And yeah, grounded sounds good. Resonates with the personality I wish to convey, and helps me on bad footing, which is one of my big weaknesses.
Little one is unfazed and mostly not snotty anymore. His sleeping is better so all in all he is a happy camper. He's figuring out the walking thing and working on the word "light" non stop. (All he does is point at lights and go "light" "light"!) Good times.
Wife is lagging a bit in recovery, mostly because of keeping up with my son. Still pretty rundown but getting better bit by bit.
OOooohh scorpion whip! I'll add one to my inventory...15 ft harrying at 1d3-1 is still better than nothing when the chips are down!
Awww man, I just realized that all this work I did to update my profile is GONE! What a pain in the ass!
I had all my abilities filled in, equipment, description and background! Man that just plain f##%ing sucks.
If you run firefox, lazarus is a must have add on. I don't know how many times paizo has borked and screwed me out of efforts before I downloaded it.
Just lemme know when you're ready to get going. Think I will get started on the intro tomorrow, and hope ya'll don't get too carried away with it till yer bard can contribute properly.
Oh I'm good to go. I put it all in two days ago and it looked liked it had saved. Wasn't like I lost it when I wrote it out just now or anything. Grrr.
My gear is fast, I remember what I had. The rest is just reference stuff for me. The main crunch should be right so you can start away. I'll be there with bells on.
Okie doke. Tomorrow then. By the time you N. American continent folk wake, at least. :)
Ah ha! Fixed. Luckily I had a lot of my stuff written down and had still in the bin next to my desk. Things should look a lot more detailed now.
Last minute debate! Chirurgeon or Preservationist? Both fit Seiji's story, both fill a niche in the group.
Also, is the Heal skill worth it? We have a fair amount of healing in the group, but it can be nice for ability damage, disease, poison, and that emergency stabilize. I can't decide.
I always do this before a game starts. I'll settle down and commit once we begin.
I think Heal is nice but Ive played alot of healers in my time. Feels like a skill that is good to have but not game breaking to be missing.
If you think an archetype is the way to go I vote Chirurgeon. Seems more organic as a motivation abd gives us more flexibilty for healing. Losing poison stuff seems a good trade for what you get but ive not run into them alot in my games so I might not be judging well...
Unfortunately, the 2nd level ability for the Chirurgeon will become more or less useless once I get the Infusion discovery at 4th level. It would prove nice for two levels...
Skill Focus (Heal) at 5th level and getting Breath of Life at 10th would be the real draw mechanically, but the main reason it interests me is it fits Seiji's background. Then again, Preservationist does too...
I think I will take Rescued (Shalelu) as the third trait. It should fit in nicely, as I already have her saving Seiji from starvation in the wilds of Varisia. Maybe she drove off some wolves as well, and Seiji has an even greater honor debt to her.
Of course, that makes me want to train Acrobatics. It's so rare that I play a character with so many skill points. I'm getting spoiled. Hehe.
I will make a decision before my first gameplay post, and stick to it. Thank you for your input, Joyabraund.
I decided on Preservationist after all. It fits the character, and I love the fluff. It should start to pay off at 4th level when I can hand out extracts with Summon Nature's Ally spells and other party members can activate them.
I've also decided to keep Knowledge (Arcana) and the Skilled human trait. You're right, Valcrim. The +level to my Craft (Alchemy) checks from my class should be enough. After 1st level, I will likely put my favored class bonus into HP instead of a skill, but Appraise fits Seiji's background too well to ignore. After 1st, I'll probably spread things out a little, and not take a rank of it every level.
I've added Personality and Appearance tabs to Seiji's profile.
I feel pretty good about where things are with my character. Eager to begin!
Regarding Heal:
Getting heal is usually worth it, at least one or two ranks so you can take 10 for 15, and give long-term care without having to roll. I will likely get 1 rank in it for Valcrim when he levels up, for the same reason, as at least 2 people should have the skill, in case one of the healers is in need of that aid.
Regarding Archetype:
I cannot say I'd suggest chirurgeon over preservationist, or vice versa, as they suffer many of the same limitations, and potions cover the base fairly well for the former, and the usefulness of the lower level summons scale pretty poorly for the latter. So both are as good/bad as the other, and it ultimately comes down to how you see your character.
Regarding infusions:
The real motivator for getting the infusion discovery in my mind is Shield which is an immense boost to AC for the characters who do not use actual shields, and cannot be turned into a potion unlike other awesome buffs like Enlarge Person and Barkskin. Definitely worth getting, for those few very sweet personal spells that stay relevant on higher levels. But since your build is quite bomb-friendly, and we have three potential melee characters as well as your summons, I'd also suggest precise bomb as one of the first discoveries.
I statted up a similar alchemist, planning to start on level 5, though that one was a chirurgeon/vivisectionist that would hand out healing extracts, and came to a couple of realizations; how good are they, and how many do I have to hand out? So I guess my advice would be to consider two things:
- Do I have enough extracts/day to give out summon infusions and still cover my own bases? At lv5, an alchemist progression is 4/2, 5/3 with bonus extracts for intelligence factored in. Handing out only two level-appropriate ones really limits you, and the first level summons are already useless at lv5.
- How useful is summoning versus other actions, or for that matter, other infusions? Will the combatants need a summoning infusion over a defensive or buffing one? Will they have time to use them, or will they need to spend their actions elsewhere?
Guess that was longish, but something to consider when leveling up, I guess.
all righty then folks. will probably take me most of the day to craft this between catching up with my weekly stories and the capabilities of this laptop (i think most smart phones have more processing power), but those of you who are already in one of my games know that the quality rarely lacks in such cases, just gotta find mah stride.
For my third trait, I think I'll go with Patient Optimist. This fits Broderus' background as a worshiper of Erastil as well as his time spend at the monastery.
I'm off to work in about an hour or so but can't wait for the campaign to kick off!
i am thinking that I might combine your and Joyabraund's intros since you're arriving on the same train, so to speak. I hope this does not offend either of you, but it'll give at least two of you a reason to know each other.
Basically I am addressing each of you personally, and then at the end giving a "state of the state" intro and GM fiating that you're all in the same place at the same time so we can get this thing up and runnin'.
If you want to reply to your individual (or not in the case of the guardsman) stuff, feel free to do so in spoiler to me! coz I like reading.
Figured I'd ask about Armor Expert for my 3rd trait, considering my 1st was the Campaigin (Rescued: Shalelu) and the 2nd was skill (Illuminator). I could see it being the kind of thing Treygan did as a kid.
Armor expert is fine. It's not an active combat trait, like an improvement to initiative, or to hit. It helps with skill checks more, so, sure. :)
Almost done with the "individual" intros, gosh... having spent quite a few hours on it already. Hope that this won't be too disappointing for the caravan friends!
Gameplay is now open gents. Enjoy yourselves.
I figured it makes sense that I know who people are pretty well, we all said we have been in and out of the town and I have a 17 Kno Local if I take 10 which probably makes sense when he sees folks around ten he isn't trying too hard just "knows" what he knows. If it creates an issue for some reason...just remember I'm a halfling bard ;-) No, in all seriousness, let me know if I get too shrill or irritating. I want to be fun not annoying.
not up to me. Paladin of sarenrae is pretty rare, but they're shining beacons of light and truth, so I do not think he'd be trying to hide himself in any way.
Gah. I think you're both right. I keep being interested in playing a summoner character, but I'm not sure this is the way to go with an alchemist. That, and I originally thought I could summon as a standard action since it was an extract, but the wording of the ability makes me think differently.
If you don't mind, Hu5tru, I think I'll rework Seiji as a Chirurgeon. I'll drop Appraise from my starting, and pick it up next level. From 3rd level on, I'll get the extra HP as my favored class bonus, and while I'll be merely trained (1 rank) in Knowledge (Arcana) and Appraise, I'll be maxed in Acrobatics, Craft (Alchemy), Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Goegraphy), Perception, and Spellcraft.
Well Treygan is from Sandpoint so common or not I figure he is known. I am after all "Well-Informed" heh.
No problemo. it's not like I didn't do a shifteroo in your JR game with my sorc/druidess :P
As long as mechanics are worked out before your first fight, you're golden.
Ah, towards that, if you guys decide that your concept and your vision isn't working out for you, like Treygan, being the ultimate expression of good as a paladin is too restricting what with the code and all, and you want to be a fighter with a personal code instead, I'll allow changes up to third level (which could be months from now) so long as it's not "this fighter is boring, I want to play a summoning wizard instead!"
Is this game going to continue to be "Hu5tru's Untitled Campaign?" and why are you doing Hu5tru here but GM Aria elsewhere? Or is that a secret? *claps hand over mouth*
oh dear, is that why? i have been wondering... Total derp on my part.
I am GM Aria elsewhere out of habit, I guess. At the time my RotRL group was pretty banging, and then... it just died.
So... to the uh... editing thingy!!
Fair enough, just curious. OOooh Kurosawa. Epic Halflings indeed!
Just waitin' on our ranger to have a chance to post before I continue, so far it seems that you are all headed to the Sheriff's office.
I figure I wouldn't exactly be hiding who I am or anything, so I don't have any problems with knowing each other at start.
kay, it's closing on midnight pretty fast here, and i'm having problems with another player in another game I just started and am pretty... just pooped.
Seriously, why do people make b*tch characters who contribute nothing but piss and vitriol to games? It's supposed to be cooperative, and first night out this mad woman points a spear at my cleric and threatens to shove it up her ass.
And I'm upsetting the apple cart to inquire if this is the tone of the game the GM is running.
B*stards.
Sorry to hear that...you seem to have bad luck in this regard.
Thinking of posting the map of the Sandpoint Hinterlands in the campaign info, so you have an idea where things are in relation to each other when you head out.
Won't give any spoilers about what is in the swamp, which may or may not be a good thing, depending on your perspective.
If we have people that have knowledge geography to justify it, cool.
Also, yes, my post is a blatantly obvious hook for Seiji to get in on it all, what with alchemists being the go-to experts on bombs and fireworks.
pardon my in-game silence, would like to know if Seiji is with you guys or not before I continue, and if so, what his reaction is to the current line of questioning.
If not, I will continue.
No problem with the in-game silence; I didn't get a change to post in gameplay for a while yesterday, so I'm all for getting everyone caught up before we get too far ahead. I have to get my son dressed shortly and then get ready for work, so I'll be out for the next 12 hours or so.
Seiji's in the conversation now. I'm not trying to hold things up, he's just a little tougher to get into the mix, considering his personality and circumstances, but worry not! I will have him in line with the group.
Also, he has a solid Knowledge (Geography), if that helps. I'm happy to roll if needed.
Man, a guy goes to sleep... Way to post a storm people, I'll get in the mix soon.
Seiji: Not to nitpick, but would not Craft (Alchemy) be a better skill for fireworks? I am pretty sure you use that skill to make them, and it says that someone trained in a craft or profession can use said skill to answer related questions.
I think craft alchemy would be better to know how to build a firework, not to know about them or where they came from.
Is the difference between watching a show on the Discovery channel and taking a chemistry or engineering class and understanding how explosive compounds are made and work.
I would argue that someone who knows how to build something would know about its existence?
The history BEHIND firework is likely another skill, sure. Just like Valcrim knows just about everything about armor, but he does not know when, say, Splint Mail was invented, or the name of the inventor.
yeah, but the context in which the way he made the geography check was appropriate, i think.
Alchemy for knowing how it is made, obviously, as it is required to make them.
I can see an argument for either, but for now, at least, my modifier is the same for both skills.