Go Forth and Conquer (Inactive)

Game Master Arythain

If someone gets poisoned, definitely use it, would be my vote. There's no advantage worth risking one of our lives over.

If anyone has lingering build, stat, or gameplay questions that I've forgotten to answer, probably a good idea to re-ask them now in case they become pertinent in the combat that maybe-sorta-is-definitely coming soon.

I will be able to haste the party before combat starts assuming we are able to predict it well enough. Alternatively I could haste our three melee options and two of the soldiers (the leader of each squad?)

I'll also be able to help Drekisal with magic weapon (I've got a couple ready) and also potentially cast Bull's Strength from a scroll if we think the fight warrants it. I'm happy to coordinate buffing with others since I hope that we're going into a fight that we have the chance to coordinate.

We will coordinate buffing, but I'm still hoping to get those stats for our guys before the big battle. They like to use sonic attacks to stun people, so they are more than likely sound- based hunters. Or at least, I'd like to try it. See if we can't sure something like Ghost Sound (via Jhaelwyn) to draw them out, then maybe Shadow Trap from Histrok to trap a creature. From there, Haste and obliterate via Surtur, Gork+Ham, and the other melee guys. At least, that's the plan thus far. Again, still formulating a plan till we get the stats of our NPC's.

Naturally, as soon as I really want to start picking up some momentum, I'm swamped both at home and at work. :( I'm trying, guys - I really am.

Here are the stats for the soldiers. As you can tell, they're nothing crazy - they're meant to represent a cadre of fairly capable and experienced, but common skirmishers in the Dragon's military. They will not generally gain experience/levels/features, and I have no real intention of fleshing them out as individuals (but I might end up giving them a 'sergeant' who becomes a bit more of a character).

You are, however, free to equip them as you like, with the caveat that they must be equipped all the same.

Somehow that's always how things work out it seems. I've noticed it plenty of times myself :P

@Soldiers - they look decent enough. Smells like Fighters?

Oooh random thought for later; would we be allowed to make our own soldiers later - within reasonable bonds at least?

I'm just looking at those guys and thinking how much more efficient* they would be if they adopted Jhaelwyn's spear+shield tactics instead!

(*When you never have to bother with iterative attacks Weapon Focus: Shortspear works for both melee and range! And when you never have to deal with magical weapons throwing your crap is so much easier ^^)

It's all good, DM- we're all trying. Enjoying the game thus far, though!

Tactics: I still think this Ghost Sound idea isnt a bad one.

Histrok, looking at your spell list, could you use your Spectral Scout to find all the beasts in the area, or ask the birds if it's just one? The biggest thing I don't want is to get surrounded. Fortunately, since we are all mounted still (yay!), that allows us some manueverability if we need to wheel out somewhere.

Basic idea for the soldiers; figure out where they are, use our manueverability to get us into a favorable position. Use our arrows to pepper them for a round or two until they get close, then drop and attack. If we can get a formation of 5 in front, 5 in the back, in a zig-zag line pattern, and have the back 5 wheel around to set up flanking, that would be ideal. If not, keep that formation, have the back row step up, and side-by-side the mantids.

Keeping on this idea of Histrok and Sir Gork- he's strong, he's a threat, and he's going to be an issue for them. Sir Gork; let's have you close, and have you wheel around, and flank. Histrok, use your Misfortune hex on whichever creature Sir Gork is attacking; if they try and surround him, he can wheel out, and whichever creatures are attacking him, are suffering major penalties. Sound straight?

Surtur is built to hit for a lot of damage, but not often. He'll be looking to attack whichever one looks strongest, and hoping for a crit. If not, his huge amount of HP will keep him upright until we finish with the rest. If it's just one, he'll be at the very front.

Drekisal, is you breath weapon a line or a cone? I want to do things with it, but I do need that info.

Which, for the record, we should all probably consume a use of the mantid cure. This includes our minion men.

Does anyone else have anything they'd like to add?

Edit: We really need to find a way to get these soldiers Precise Shot, or something of the sort! Having them able to fire into melee would be so helpful.

Which one? :D His acid breath is a line, his fire breath is a cone. Neither is very powerful, given they're both just 2d6 once a day.

Ooh! Options! Fun!

Idea 1, Cone: As the mantids approach (again, I'm hoping we can attack them, not them attack us), as they come up eady an action and spit fire. It might not be much, but 2d6 to 3 or 4 creatures is a huge help.

Idea 2, Line: Any reason why you cannot ride behind Sir Gork? When he charges, have you come in behind, and shoot off a line of acid breath. Have Jhaelwyn cast Invisibility on you, wait for Sir Gork to charge, and let go before he gets there. Profit!

I've used both my commune with birds, so they're out, but Spectral Scout is the better option this time anyhow. It lets me summon a tiny incorporeal animal for 50 minutes that I can talk with and understand, and which I can command as though it was an animal companion without my having to use handle animal. It can relay any information it has witnessed with perfect clarity (though wouldn't be able to interpret that information at all which isn't likely to matter too much here.)

I can use it to summon a hawk which would have a perception of +17 on sight based and opposed checks assuming we're in bright light (I think we are as it's daytime, though if it's particularly overcast it might not in which case it would just be +14.) I can then have it go see how many mantids it can find and report back. They might be hiding, but hopefully viewing them from above will negate that as that's probably not where they're worried about being spotted, and even if it doesn't the perception check is high enough that we've got a decent chance of spotting them (hopefully.) We should then be able to learn exactly where they are as the hawk should be able to describe the terrain it's flown over in enough detail. Possibly that would give us enough information to find a favorable spot for the encounter.

Assuming we can get set up quickly enough with the information that the hawk brings, I can potentially use it to go make a big noisy presence and draw one or more mantids to us. As it's incorporeal they won't be able to hurt it unless their attacks count as magic weapons, so it should be able to go rile them up with an unexpected something and then fly back either towards us or wherever else we might want it to, hopefully with mantids in tow. The advantage there is that there's no risk to any party members.

For the fight itself, I should be using either misfortune or shadow trap. If we could land shadow trap and have it stick for a couple rounds then killing it at range would be safer than engaging in melee. I do need to be within 35 feet of it to cast though, and the spells DC will only be 14, so there's a fair chance it saves. If we know that it's coming and are set up I should probably be able to ready an action to fire off the spell once it gets within 30 feet. That way we'd know if the spell lands or not and could go either melee or ranged depending on the success. That does assume just one mantid at a time likely. If there's more than one perhaps I try to lock one down that way while the melee deal with the other. If I land misfortune on it the second round I'm more likely to be able hold it for up to 5 rounds and keep at least one of them out of the fight.

@mounts - I'm a bit sceptical about how useful non-Ham mounts are going to be in a fight right now. Main issues I can see are;

1) mounts aren't sneaky. They don't have much stealth and getting them to even try is going to be a pain.

2) combat riding isn't that easy. It's concentration checks for casters and a bunch of ride checks for everyone.

3) they can be mantid poisoned and otherwise injured. This will expend resources or in the worst case, since we don't have spare mounts, slow the entire group down.

I'm not sure if these points outweigh us being faster and taller, but they are worth thinking about before we ride gloriously into battle :-)

So classic medical tactic then?
Spearwall to the enemy, some range attacks and cavalry coming in to flank.

Actually, I was thinking to straight up charge the biggest bug I can find and try to drop it.
Given that I have a good chance to drop myself with a single mounted charge attack, that is not as ridiculous at it may sound....

The only issue is that Drekisal's breaths are rather short-range. He'll try to get into position to use them, though.

@Jhaelwyn- The only ones I envision actually riding in combat are Sir Gork and maybe Drekisal+Histrok. I just want to use the mounts to get us to an advantageous position, then hop off. Does that make more sense?

@Histrok- that's basically what I envisioned you doing, and the Misfortune Hex. That scout sounds really, really helpful; if we have the time, definetly try and antagonize them slightly.

@Drekisal- use them if you can. I think they'd be useful, and I think I've come up with some scenarios, but not dying is more important.

@Sir Gork- You nailed the strategy, then. Still, it's easier to kill a bug you're flanking!

Anything I've missed?

I'm already both dreading and eagerly anticipating GM'ing battles with this group. :)

@Surtur, we'll see what information we get and how much time we have. As for the scout, it takes a third level spell, so it has to give more use for the situation than haste or fly would, but for today it seemed likely it would do that when we're encountering a new type of enemy for the first time and want to have as much idea of the situation ahead of time as possible. I do like it though, and given that we're likely to be in these sorts of situations somewhat often in the early stages of the campaign, I might make a scroll or two of it when we've got some down time.

I don't know the shaman spell list well at all, so the good news is that I'm taking a close look at it each day to see if I can find anything that might suit our needs better rather than just going with the good spells (in part because I don't know what the good spells are.) It's a good exercise to get more familiar with what I can do.

@GM Mercy, I think that we're looking forward to them as well! The dread will set in once we realize what we're fighting.

This ought to be very interesting, GM!

@everyone: so, we are a numerically inferior force going up against a numerically superior force. That matters. Hopefully, we can send some small portion of them against us. If not, we need to keep an open line of retreat should things progress poorly.

Honestly, if this doesn't drive them out, we should find a place where they have to come to us or be destroyed. For example; they are in a place that's natural for land- walkers to come to. Is there a way we can get to a non- natural place and launch arrows?

Anyways, we'll see how they react to the hawk.

Yeah, I hadn't been expecting anywhere near these numbers. I should probably check the shaman spell list for more AoE spells for future encounters as right now I'm loaded to take care of maybe 1 through 4 stronger creatures. Well, really I'm loaded to do scouting and information gathering, but I didn't have these numbers in mind at all. Should be good fun! I'm glad we didn't just stumble into them though!

Attacking all of them at once definitely sounds like a bad idea. Though I suspect our paladin will give them a rude surprise in melee.

So Grog's Lance is a reach weapon. What if Ham was flying during this fight. Would that give Grog a chance to make charge attacks every round from above the height of everyone else and not need to worry about folks being in the way? Would that be worth it for this encounter given the numbers we're looking at? This is as much a question to GM Mercy (feasibility) as it is to Grog and the other players (do you like it?)

*edit*

That might even help some if we're worried about stealth from Grog. If he can hang back behind everyone else and plan on air charging in maybe we can get away with less stealth needed. If not, then we should consider using invisiblity on Grog (or anyone else that isn't stealthy,) just for that bonus to get into position perhaps?

Invisibility breaks when you attack. But does it break if the creature riding you attacks?

An invisible flying Ham sounds hilarious. Gork might even be able to pick off a substantial amount of the blighters simply by staying out of range.

Hmm. @GM - Do Jhaelwyn know if the mantids are known to employ any sort of ranged attacks?

And how good are their leaping/flying skills if any?

We know that they're good leapers if memory serves.

Rofl, yeah invisible Gork sounds ridiculous indeed.
But I don't think it is the best usage we can come up with.
My stealth roll will STILL be worse than some dedicated stealther can get and I don't see Gork NOT attacking if any Mantid is in sight.

Another appraoch would be to have Gork just riding into the mantid trap, while everyone else is setting up a trap-trap.
With Hams powerful overrun, I should (probably) be bale to get out of trouble during round one, hopefully pulling them into the groups trap.

... not that Gork would come up with such a plan by himself of course.
He's all for head-on-charging the bugs while hitting the war-drums for good measure of course.

Correct, Jhaelwyn would know that they are capable of amazing leaps in combat, usually using this ability to attack in ambush. They are also known to use a leap attack to 'tackle' people to the ground and eviscerate them.

Jhaelwyn does not know of any ranged attacks they have. The rumors of the Queen mantid include possible ranged attacks, but nobody Jhaelwyn has ever met has actually penetrated far enough into a nest to confront a Queen.

Right, at this point I think that I'm waiting for Surtur's reaction to the hawk's inability to draw the mantids to us. We probably want to set up a force to meet them either a ways off or at the ridge that might provide an advantage if we can sneak to it, but it's not clear to me at either is the obviously better action. Gork on a flying, invisible Ham would still get attacked by leaping Mantids, but still might be worth it for the ability to charge every turn and lay waste to our foes. It does take invisibility away from Drekisal, but if he's hanging back then hopefully we can keep the mantids occupied on others anyhow.

Does anyone have an AoE options they want to talk about now? Drekisal's breath weapons and what else?

Not many aoe options over here I'm afraid.

Actually, I'm thinking we should do the opposite. Let's approach the mantinds from the non- gorge direction.

I expect the ridge is probably considered difficult terrain, so if they retreat, we'll still have time to catch up. Does that make sense?

I might send Jhaelwyn's Ghost Sound up the ridge, to make the mantids think there's another force back behind them, so they're more likely to stick and fight than they would be if they thought no one was behind them.

I'd just don't think Surtur nor Sir Gork are equipped for a stealthy approach.

I will say, if they do mass retreat anyways, that's fine. Better we live to fight another day than a small number of us get caught and dismembered.

It seems unlikely we'll get the fight started before the Christmas holiday after all, but I'll still be keeping an eye on discussion and such if you guys want to continue strategizing!

I'll consider us on hiatus from today to next Thursday or so.

Since we have some time then I'll just bounce another idea!

We could also set up an ambush of our own and send someone as *uh* bait to try and draw the mantids into our ambush. Then our non-sneaky guys don't have to do any actual sneaking - just standing still quietly :P

Happy new year : )

Happy New Year all! It's going to be a busy rest of the week for me after the holidays, but I'll try and get us going again by the weekend.

All right!

OK, I'm back from break as well and we're about to get to excitement!

I like the idea of using someone as bait to draw them mantids to us, though if they all come, we'll need to try to get some down quickly so they don't overwhelm us. We know that the mantids are fast and jump well, so there's some chance that the bait would be a good candidate for fly as well so that they've got a good chance to not get killed bringing the mantids to us.

Do we know about any ranged attacks we need to worry about?

I am in favour of playing bait.
Ham can go rather fast and making both of us invisible seems like a waste of spells that can be used better for something else.
Fly ... I don't know how Ham would react on that ...? Probably not all too well?

I figure Gork would simply ride-by-charge-stab-kill one of their numbers, then turn and ride away, hoping that the Mantids are eager to avenge their kin and follow into our trap.

I'm fine with a Gork charge to grab the ones he can grab and bring them back to an ambush, but ideally we could grab less than all of them. If they are at the upper limit of numbers then even if we've got good terrain for a trap, I'm worried that there's still too great a danger we'll be overwhelmed. A lot of it depends on how easily the individual mantids go down, but whatever we can do to get less attacking at once must be good.

What if Jhaelwyn sneaks in and around to the opposite side first, and sets up a ghost sound for 20 men coming close, seeing the mantids and then retreating at the same time that Gork hits. If that can draw some of them towards the sounds and the rest to us we might be more able to deal with two smaller waves rather than one big one.

Hmh. I'm a bit uncomfortable with the "ride up to leaping ambush predators" part I must say. Even with antivenom enough might simply leap at you to make it an AoO hell.

But it'd be glorious if it worked!

I'm all for Jhaelwyn causing some distraction at the opposite side though. That seems like an easy way to reduce the number of mantids that charge at once.

Yeah, ranged attacks might work better for drawing them in.

Pulling with a ranged attack could work, but do we have good options for that?

*Waves poisoned bleed causing node of blasting enhanced javelins around*

But it might be hard for Jhaelwyn to be on both sides simultaneously.

There's always the star trek approach: let a mook do it?

Does it have to be a 'good' option, or just 'an option that gets their attention'? Shooting an arrow at them might be all it takes, we don't know.

I think it has to be an option that gets their attention and draws them to us even if it does no damage at all.

I also think that we have to have our warriors stay grouped together and couldn't send just one. I'd had to risk an entire squad of them out in the open if the mantids get the jump on them. I know that one of Surtur's priorities is keeping them all safe to the greatest extent possible, given that this is a dangerous task.

I think maybe we need to just come to a decision and do something. XD

Probably yeah : )

Don't tell that Gork if you want to do something fancy ;-)

Yeah, I've been hoping that Surtur will get back soon and make some final decisions. If he's not here by the end of the weekend how about we start acting with these basics for a plan. Sound fair to everyone?

Sounds fair!

Indeed! Thank gosh for seconds-in-command.

I needed a bit longer after holidays than I expected to get my act in gear as well, though, so I'm in no position to throw stones. Just been watching your planning and waiting on a decision.

And this week started busy for me. I'll try to get a post in the gameplay thread today getting things set up, but if anyone has anything more to say about tactics do post!

Right now I'm thinking Jhaelwyn sneaks around to the other side, gets set to cast ghost noise to hopefully draw some away. At the same time we send someone to shoot an arrow at them and run back to the group. Surtur and one of our units will be there to meet them head on and Sir Gork and the other will be waiting to hit them from the side as they engage (hopefully with some concealment so that they'll surprise the Mantids.) Gork charges through and then wheels around for another charge the following round (or whatever he does that makes sense,) and the unit could either engaged in melee or with ranged attacks. Surtur's unit should try to get a round or two of ranged attacks as they're approaching before dropping bows and preparing for melee.

Drekisal and I will buff some before we go, probably one of us with Surtur the other with Sir Gork.

Does that sound good or should we just stick with Surtur and both units prepared to meet them, ready to try a bit of a pincer from both sides if there are few enough coming at us, with only Gork hitting from the side? I guess that would be more ranged attacks as they approach.

We also need to know who's doing the ranged attack to get their attention. We need to be pretty sure they can outrun the mantids on the way back to Surtur.

OK, even though I said I was waiting for Surtur to say to start, we're going to get things going. Jhaelwyn can start sneaking into position, I'll give her some time, cast my fly and get ready to plink a mantid with my crossbow and fly back to the army. What's the limit for how many I've got following me before I abort and fly straight up and lead them somewhere other than towards the main force? How many do you all think we can handle at once?

Roger! I'm probably going to get a post up tomorrow morning.

@mantid limit - I really don't know, it's hard to tell since I've never fought against them (despite Jhaelwyn having done so :P) nor have I seen us fight.

Maybe Jhaelwyn the character could give a reasonable estimation?