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@Mounts: I think I'd have to ask the GM- what's more prevalent in the Gelkrosh region? Yaks, or horses? I'm all for either, but I'll probably take whichever one is more common!
@Feat Tax: I like them, but that's definetly a GM ruling here.
@Shadow Weapon: That's one of my favorite spells! Trust me, you'll get a lot of use out of it! That, and Shadow Conjuration- so useful.
OK, I've mostly finished up Histrok. I did a few things to diverge away from Drekisal as they had a fair amount of similarities. They still do have some, but, for example, I no longer bother learning all the languages ahead of time as I'll be able to use Tongues to do that instead. I'm also really quite squishy; easier to hit that Drekisal, but with a few more HP.
For right now I've chosen not to go for any item creation feats (if we want them later I'll be up for picking them up,) and the two wizard spells I've added to my list are Detect Thoughts and Fly. Detect Thoughts fits what Histrok does and Fly seems to have pretty good utility (and I don't think that we have it elsewhere yet.) If anyone wants to make a case for other choices I'm happy to listen!
I've put Yak down on my sheet, but will need to hear how much they cost before actually paying for it.
I'm excited to play this one!
Crunch is mostly done and added to the alias.
Still not sure on feat selection though.
Yeah, I'd noticed Histrok was also going for a charismatic caster. :D We should coordinate on spells to cover each other's blind spots.
Drekisal will actually get Fly as a Mystery Spell next level, so feel free to pick something else. He also can pick a revelation once that will let him grab an arcane spell or two as spell-like abilities. :D
Oh spells could be useful! Being an occultist Jhaelwyn's selection is somewhat limited but she has a few goodies. Currently looking at:
Illusion: Shadow Weapon and not sure.
Transmutation: Crafter's Fortune and Warp Wood
Necromamcy: probably Inflict Light Wounds and Pernicious Poison
Additionally she has the following as spell likes:
Minor Image, sorta Invisibility and sorta Detect People.
I'm debating if single target Haste is worth to pick up as an implement power or if I should wait until she gets it as a third level transmutation. Not sure yet.
Lots of answer posts incoming (or rather, one gigantic one). You guys are asking questions faster than I can find time to answer them! Love it.
I heard that is what player do?
Keep the GM at that sweet point, three levels above 'overworked' for 99,99% of the time so that he doesn't get funny ideas about how to 'exercise' the group? ;-)
2 traits, no drawbacks.
I'll make a small 'meet the party!' post soon and you guys can roleplay whatever you like. Please make sure to stick to spoilers when you do it, so you can continue with that while other business goes on.
You know what? Sure, let's go with the Background Skills rules, I've always liked them. Likewise for the Feat Tax system described Here. I haven't used the latter before but I agree with its philosophy.
As far as mounts go, take what you want that we've already discussed (all of yaks, horses, and aurochs are quite common in the area). Wartrained animals are pricier than normal Pathfinder though, so let me know if you want something like that. I'll take a look at animal stats a little bit later! As riding animals Horses are more common.
Yes, money can be tight when you're packing on lots of equipment. In this particular game, you can imagine you'll have the chance to build up cash before too long - you are here, after all, to take control of a fairly valuable region. Taxes, taxes, taxes...
Item Creation Feats: Item creation is available, and in fact you don't even need the feats to do it. This goes for both consumables like potions and scrolls to longer-term enchantments. Thing is, it's tough to make magic items and costs both money and time. The applicable feats make it much more feasible to make things, and you'll be better at it. I'll place my item creation outline in the info folder soon.
Does seem weird they don't have a listed speed. I guess just use the 40ft. As for your stats, being that dumb would partially hamstring your ability to be a diplomat - but you could still possibly be an effective messenger (delivering other peoples' words in a pleasing way).
I'm actually considering spotting you two points of INT to somehow represent Merry's influence on your mind, or something. Let me think on it.
I like the story. We'll say your ogre clan was left behind in the Dragon's lands until you make a space for them in Gelkrosh.
If I missed anything major please ask again!
Huh, coolios all over the place!
With feat tax rules, I can go down the mounted feat chain without giving up power attack - awesome.
Backgrounds skill will help me pick a few more of those very sparse skills for Gork - nice.
@Mercy: Yup 6 is harsh but fitting for an Ogre and better than dumping will or DEX AS WELL. Actually a raise to 8 wouldn't change anything mechanics wise for me, so if you think that would be more appropriate to be more understandable for people, then I'll not complain *haha*
Yeah, I don't want to travel with them either. Too much of a hassle. Search a good place and fetch them later was the intent from the start. Just makes for a very good motivation beside Holy Crusade 1!11!Elf! which he is sort of 'Mkay if Merry wants to...' with. But helping his clan get away from those diehard bully ogres of the Skull'Smashas is much more ... Easy to comprehend? *Lol*
@GM - Nice :-)
@Surtur - There's some new-ish info in the info folder that seems to relate to your questions. If you haven't seen that yet :-)
@Mercy: one more thing came to mind.... You wanted to cobble together a bit of How-To Merry. Guess that's further down the Toro with all those questions floating around. So... Simple feel reminded :-)
Gameplay answers now up, Surtur.
Yes indeed Gork, it's almost to the top of the list! If not tonight, I'll get to it over the weekend. The 'protecting and guiding your own ogre clan' is a great touch, really makes your goodness more personally connected to your character rather than just "I'm being steered around by a good goddess!'
OK, I'll definitely go yak then. When we've figured out what that sets me back I'll be happy to pay it.
I've also updated the build to include background skills and item creation feats (I can scribe scrolls and craft wondrous items more efficiently now.) I'll want to take a look at the rules for creating items to be sure make sense to take, but for now they're there.
@GM Mercy, Once I've got the item creation rules to work with, I imagine I'll spend some more of my starting gold making some scrolls instead of buying them if that makes sense?
@Drekisal, great! I'll probably stick with fly for this level, and then swap it out for some other spell next level when you've got that covered. I'm more than happy to coordinate spells so that we'v got the coverage we want of various effects.
@Surtur, I'm going to have a free divination per day available at the start of the campaign and was planning on making them available for you to answer questions that you might have about how to go about this task. Just as a heads up about a resource that might take some of the guesswork out of whether various things would be a good idea or not.
@Jhaelwyn, I could potentially cover the haste, especially if we value it more than fly (or can wait a level to get it, and then have both.)
I'll be more talkative once GenCon is over. XD Background skills will be nice--that frees up some skills for Drekisal to be a bit more broadly knowledgeable (anyone have Know(Arcana) yet?).
I've got one rank in Knowledge (Arcana) for weakness identification purposes as I get my Shaman level as a bonus for that, but I'm only +3 by default, so for anything else someone doing it better would be good.
Hope you're enjoying GenCon!
@Arcana - Might pick it up for idea identification purposes. Not sure though, I'll have to check tomorrow. It covers constructs and magical beasts so it's reasonable narrow, but makes sense from a hunter to know about the later.
But on that topic ...
@GM - What type of creature are mantids? Vermin? Aberration? Or maybe even magical beast?
I'd love to make sure Jhaelwyn has at least some tanks in the appropriate knowledge skill.
@Folder - Sorry I just thought it looked new :-)
@Haste - I'm not sure what other level three transmutations there are (well fly :-P) so I'll have to think about it.
Okay, had a couple of unexpectedly very busy couple of days, time to do some basic character outlining and then go through the nitty gritty tomorrow. My pace has been pretty slow thus far, because I don't have internet at my apartment, that will change starting in a little less than two weeks.
I'm going to be a ranger, I still haven't quite decided how much I want to focus on archery. Could everyone summarize their ranged capabilities in a spoiler so I can make some decisions ability score and featwise?
GM Mercy, I don't believe you've looked at my changes to my backstory yet, let me know if you think I need more changes or if I'm good.
I'm also interested in knowing the creature type for Mantids.
Gotta choose a profile picture...
Ranged Capabilities: none.
Well I have 2 javelins with me but I roll a +4 to hit.
Plus, if they are within javelin range, they are within Ham-charge range as well...
Currently looking at javelins too, they are pleasantly cheap, but a few more with a little better to-hit. Throwing at +6 for 1d6+5, maybe some poison. But that's not very impressive either.
@Range - there's this fancy thing called amentum from Ranged Tactics Toolbox to help out javelins. Okay I might have lied a little; it's basically just greek for string. But if you have martial weapon proficiency you can prep your javelins for almost free and get a little bit extra range : )
@GM - is obsidian available in or around Mt Dragon? I'm thinking of having some obsidian tipped javelins. Mostly because they are cool, but also they weight a little less.
And maybe there's some shenanigans to be had with fragile weapons somewhere!
I do not want to be in melee. The closest I want to get is 30' so I can use my two once-per-day breath weapons. Other than that I'd rather summon a spiritual weapon and throw around buffs and various other spells.
Histrok will be mostly trying to cast spells and hex some enemies from around 30 feet. When a weapon needs pulling it'd be better if it's ranged, but don't expect much damage from it.
@Cuneo: Love it! Great changes, makes Cuneo fit neatly into the narrative here. Thanks for making the adjustments.
@Histrok: Item creation guidelines will be up by the end of today (Sunday, eastern time zone)
@Jhaelwyn: They are aberrations, thanks for thinking to ask that. Also, in the case of obsidian, rule of cool applies – yes it's available. We'll say there's an extinct volcano or two in the Dragon's realm.
@Surtur (but also everyone else): You guys will have ten soldiers with you, and you can choose how they're equipped. Basically you have the option between melee-heavy, ranged-heavy, or mixed. They will operate as a single unit – this is my early test of the mass-combat rules I'm cooking up for when those become necessary in a campaign.
Basically, in a melee heavy build they'll be wearing medium armor and have uniform weapons (of surturs choice, so he could for instance choose to have some long-spear wielding folks if you guys think reach would be useful or something). Ranged weaponry might put longbows in all ten hands, but they'd only have daggers for up close and no armor. Mixed would be light armor and shortbows plus some basic martial weapon. That's not finalized, but that's what I'm thinking.
I can't show you the mass combat rules yet, but they'll be as close to intuitive as I can get them.
Damn! Aberration - the one that makes most sense but also the one Knowledge skill that's a real hassle to get!
(Occultist doesn't have it, the excellent racial trait Fey Thoughts doesn't give access. It will have to be a trait then!)
@Troops - If there's a vote, I'd go for the mix. Since we only have ten grunts I feel that flexibility is the most important point.
Yeah, I'm inclined to agree that versatility is valuable for the first small unit and that specialization can be something for select units in the future as forces grow.
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So, I'm putting together a preliminary plan of "invasion"- if it can be called invasion- and I'll share it OOC with everyone tomorrow morning. Take any suggestions, edits, etc- please, feel free!
As for the troops- is there a way I can ask for, say, 5 melee- heavy, 2 ranged- heavy, and 3 mixed? Or do they all have to be the same? Preferentially, I'd do something like that, but otherwise I'm thinking melee- heavy, and I'll share why. This isnt a final decision, though, for the record!
Also, sorry for not posting for a little bit- when I have to do big tactical planning, I can sometimes take a day or two to get it all straightened away in my head. But, like I said, I think this is what makes sense (though I'll share some other alternatives), and I'll get that typed up tomorrow morning.
Question: could Surtur IC ask Kiayuscan about the general plan, and see what he thinks of it? Or is that not allowed?
The soldiers will all have to be kitted the same. In the rules I'm cooking up, the very smallest possible 'unit' in mass combat come in ten individuals, and that's what you've got to work with. They're equipped the same, they take orders as one, etc.
You're absolutely allowed to ask about the general plan, as well as what general plans that the Dragon's people might have dreamed up. Just keep in mind that they are working off the same set of limited info as they have agreed to share with you.
@Gork: The Tao of Merry coming up in the next post.
Why would they not have armor or use good weapons if they had longbows? Is it a money thing? Real historical archers carried sidearms like swords and often wore lots of armor.
Anyway, it seems like we don't have that much in the way of ranged capabilities, almost to the point that I feel like if we get into a fight with something that we can't get close to we should just try to talk to it or something.
So I saw those choices and I thought way back to the computer game Art of War where you could select 3 types of troops, Knights, Archers or Barbarians. Knights would mostly destroy Barbarians (they were heavily armored and engaged in melee combat with a foe who wasn't,) and would die readily to archers (who's arrows would pierce the slow knights armor with no problem at all. Barbarians could take Archers as with their light armor as they would dodge the arrows and then in melee they'd have a big advantage. It wasn't realistic, but it made for an interesting game mechanism. It's a rock, scissors, paper deal.
As a level of abstraction, we shouldn't have troops who are good at everything. That array of choices sets it up nicely.
Mind you, GM Mercy might have something else in mind, but that was my take.
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Above all else, Merry is a guardian and helper to the simple people. Those who till the fields, tend the herds. Those who live in their villages amongst the people they've always known, and have no ambition to do any more than enjoy their life, raise their children, and watch the cycle repeat.
Merry does not shy from violence. The drunken brawl can be fun, the border fight can be necessary - hell, the destruction of true evil can be joyful. But Merry recognizes that 'true evil' is rare. Most people just want to get by. Thus, Merry prefers her worshipers value life and take it only at great need. Merry understands that sometimes killing is necessary - but she teaches that where the strong and capable folk might need to kill to establish peace, the very strong and capable folk establish peace by only knocking a few folk about.
Merry values hard work. People should not sit idle, even the those who are needy. People do not deserve kindness just for existing, but if they are willing to do something, anything to earn their way, then those with the means should provide. (There is an exception for recognized holidays - Merry loves a good festival! Nobody should have to labor on a holiday when they should be getting drunk and enjoying life).
As far as relations between peoples goes, Merry is adamant that all thinking people should be accepted as equal. Neither the place or wealth of one's birth really makes a difference. People are people. If you're willing to get along, you should be gotten along with.
@Cuneo: This is partially a game balance thing, but also partially a roleplay thing. You guys are being sent on the sly by a major regional power who doesn't want anybody else to know what she's up to. If a bunch of capable individuals showed up with ten extremely well-equipped fighters, it would raise a lot of questions. However, a bunch of capable people showing up with a balanced unit is noteworthy, but not completely outside expectation. These guys aren't supposed to be an army unit, but an irregular bunch of mercenary types who just happen to give you guys a uniform capability.
@Histrok: As it happens, I rather despise rock/paper/scissors-type game design. Yes, it sometimes arises, but I never aim for it. (also, dodging arrows? Eh? ;) )
@Mercy: That's great!
- how is she worshipped? Does she have some special sign or heraldry?
- did Gork met mantids before (aka are there any mantid outbreaks in the dragons realm?) and how is Merry's take on them?
- re: not killing. Imagine a group of bandits raiding a trade route, we engage them after a futile talk. If Gork charges into them with Lance at the ready, he has a good chance to outright kill an enemy with the sheer force of the charge. Okayish or bad?
@Mercenaries: I'd love some range capabilities since we seem to lack in those (unless our ranger goes range dps?). On the other hand, Mantids are noted to be expert ambushers - which reads death for light armoured ranged specialists.
So I'd lean in favour of the multi-purpose guys but let's see what our captain is thinking.
@Surtur Remember you have allies to council with on what the plan should be. ;)
Mixed is probably fine for our troops.
@GM Mercy, it was a way for them not to make archers overpowered. Rock/Paper/Scissors as a mechanic is only as good as it's implementation. It's something that can happen when you don't want a dominant strategy, and it can be done well. I'd site the BattleCon system by Level 99 games as a good example. But that's straying from the intention here. Your reasons for the lack of optimization here make excellent sense.
@Surtur, I'm looking forward to seeing what your thoughts for the melee heavy unit were. I think that any of the configurations would be workable. I also wouldn't worry to much about having a full set of tactics ready. If you want to give us partial plans for input I bet you'd get some good ideas. Seems like we have a good team here ready to support you!
@Jhaelwyn, is it worth the trait that you want for that Knowledge: Dungeoneering in class? You can still take the skill. You'd be losing the +3 for this particular roll, but there's no reason you couldn't go with that, especially starting at level 5.
Makes some sense mercenary-wise, I suppose. Given that we don't have that much money ourselves, and we probably want people to think we're paying for them out of pocket, it's fairly reasonable that we wouldn't be able to equip them with super high quality gear. Although in general most of the combat equipment in this game is way more expensive than would make sense, that's something for another time.
Anyway, I think I'm going to try to be good at ranged damage. I'll still be better at doing damage in melee if it comes to that, but I think having the ability to hit things that are far away is pretty important for us to be a well rounded group, and it seems like we can do that.
I added some basic crunch notes, that's all I have time for right now. Lots of stuff I haven't finished detailing yet.
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Alrighty guys, here's the plan, thus far. Put it into a spoiler so it wouldn't take up so much space.
Mission Statements:
1: Ascend to dominance of the Gelkrosh Region, uniting it under one banner for The Dragon.
2: Leave enough infrastructure+development to make the Gelkrosh Region profitable for The Dragon and her war against the giants
3: Do all of this while keeping true motivations quiet, so as not to attract too much attention (by all reports, doing anything too quickly and loudly will result in extreme pushback, and could unite the various factions against us, plus send agents of the giants against us or worse).
Objective 1: Establish legitimate reason for being in the area.
Let's start in the Lodge. We need a legitimate reason for being in the area, we have a an antidote which ensure our successful operations there, the Dragon already has a presence there, and anyone we can turn to our cause will likely be of a combat- ready skill, something that will be sorely needed. Once we expand, we can take this to an entire containment of the cities, which will endear us to the locals plus create space for Gelkrosh refugees in other areas. We can then treat with the other cities on an equal footing, having a righteous cause (destruction of the mantids), a pragmatic reason of power (we keep the mantids form attacking them), and half of an army (the adventurers wishing to prove themselves). Plus, there's something to be said for taking on the biggest, baddest thing out there first, and winning.
Issues:
1: Since The Dragon does have a presence there, anyone running any semblance of counterintelligence will know us for what we are almost immediately.
2: At the moment, the Lodge had little value to the rest of the region, and worse, is economically reliant upon Gelkrosh City. Indebtedness is not a good place to be.
Objective 2: Turn our crusade into a bartering chip to gain leverage; recruit one of the major power layers to our cause.
Now, we have a real reason to be in the Gelkrosh Region, and to be traveling amidst the various cities. We'll need the support of at least one of the major factions in the area to move any further, and I see three: Benji Kamimura of Hafton's City Guard, Hafton's Steel Cabal, and the River Basin Concern of Gelkrosh City, headed by Dax Jerria. First, Captain Benji Kamimura: little is known about her, but we can guess; she's on old tribal warrior, which means Surtur can relate to her, and she'll relate to Surtur's goals to bring back the strength of the tribes. Give her a righteous cause, which we will have (remember, her deity is a LG god of destroying evil, which the mantids are), and she's ours. Having a trained military, which is one of two in the region (River Wardens are the other), will help us immensely in clearing out the last of the mantids, but also as a deterrant to keep anyone from striking us. Another addition- the criminal element fears her, and while I would like us to refrain from gaining enemies, I'll make an exception here- being tough on crime will help endear us to the local people who aren't criminals.
Now, the Steel Cabal is a little trickier, but look at this- who benefits the most from a war against the mantids? Those who produce the weapons, and those who produce the food. When, and it is a when, we bring in our own people to farm the land we take from the mantids, the Sapphire Cabal will lose power, while the Steel Cabal grows. We cozy up to them, set them in power, and between them and Benji, Hafton is our playground.
And finally, the River Basin Concern- they're a group that's primarily controlling transportation, and if and when lands routes open up- if they get the jump on it, they benefit. Second, they intend to open up trade south- which is something we want. If they do, they'll completely bypass Swampside, which at the moment is the main hub of traffic between the south and Gelkrosh. And, if it weakens Swampside, that helps us- I'll elaborate further on them later. I imagine something out to be worked out between us and the ambitious Drecna.
Issues:
1. Lorri Longstalking of Northbridge may have to be appeased, somehow- we really, really don't want to split the River Basin Concern.
2. Sapphire Cabal of Hafton may not like us much- but this is mitigated by putting the Steel Cabal as the major player in Hafton, now.
4. This does rely a little on Benji Kamimura, and she is a bit of a wildcard.
5. Bringing in refugees from the Dragon's land and elsewhere may also bring in people we don't like, like agents of the giants, for example.
Objective 3: War between the Houses.
Now, this is where the projections break down, as this can go several ways. We're going to want to use these major players we've established to help grow our influence. We'll have to finish off the mantids, by this point- otherwise, our initial purpose will be for naught, and we'll lose credibility. And, we're going to have to kick out of power those who are either too stubborn or too dangerous to live underneath the Dragon's rule. There's a few like that, and with a little luck, there's a chance we may be able to help the common people while turning the attention towards targets we don't like. For example, with a history of being a conquerors, and a tradition of raiding, I wonder what House Yemuz might do if we "sanctioned" them raiding say, House Rulix- who we don't like, as a complete wildcard. The common people stop being raided, and two people we aren't exactly fond of (Yemuz and Rulix) go to war, and the ones who benefit are us. Perhaps the River Wardens get into it and lose their commander, which will further cement Dax Jerria's loyalty.
Step 4: Consolidate power; destroy Swampside.
Work with what's left standing; I'm not planing this far out, as much could go differently that the plan will end up changing by this point anyways. If it goes to plan, we set ourselves up as leaders, and destroy the last settlement not loyal to us- Swampside. Last, because whatever the Power is, no one can tell us anything about it, and that's the absolute worst thing that can happen when planning an invasion.
Other Avenues I've explored:
1.Start in Zeb, raid the caravans going to Hafton delivering lumber. Expand, begin disrupting trade routes everywhere. Has the negative impact of making every major House mad at us, though we could certainly make the people happy by protecting them from the likes of House Yemuz and others. Work with the Broken Chains, maybe recruit Benji Kamimura with old tribal stories and bringing them back. Become populist. But, again, really puts a target on our backs, and probably disrupts too much of what we want there to be when we end. Does come with less risk of us being associated with the Dragon immediately.
2. Destroy Swampside. Take on the biggest, baddest threats out there. And then walk in like cake.
I may have more to say, but it's also 2am, I'm not really writing anything more substantial despite efforts, and I've already shortened what I was going to write considerably. Take a look, see what ya'll think, and please give any feedback you have! I'll probably speak more as my mind clears up in the morning.
Hmmmm, first plan sounds kind of like what I was thinking. I'm off to work soon, but I'll mull over things and see if I can see things we'll need to prepare for.
First: Sounds like a quite thorough plan you cooked up there!
"(...)having a righteous cause (destruction of the mantids), a pragmatic reason of power (we keep the mantids form attacking them) (...)"
This sounds like a very good position indeed.
Playing the big brother, protecting the other powers from further Mantid incursions should give us some leeway and good status.Is anyone good at bluffing? OOC I would stage a misinformation campaign to play-up the danger of the mantids and thus the need for our presence, especially during the initial phase of establishing our presence.
Nothing forges an alliance like a very real danger from outside forces after all...
@Raiding/Warmongering: I of course are in favour of doing the least amount of damage to the realm we aim to rule one day. Not to mention that Merry would kick Gorks large behind if he would allow something like that happen, as it would certainly influence the poor farmers and workers of the area.
@Benji Kamimura:
She sounds like someone who Gork might found a connection with quite readily - after having established that I do NOT intend to eat her or any of her subjects any time soon. Being the single (?) good-aligned character of the crew (plus a paladin to a good deity) should match well with a good-aligned sheriff type.
@Planing: Do not wreck your head about anything beyond the big first two steps, really. We can't tell what the status will be IF we achieve those first two steps as planned (which will not happen anyway - at least exactly as planned). Plus, in pbp-terms, this is like years away.
@Surtur: The main motivation of Gork is to find a new home for his clan of not-good-but-at-least-neutral Ogres. Their Bestiary entry calls them out to be exceptional miners and even smiths in the rare cases that they take up those roles (usually if forced to by even stronger giants).
Bringing them in should probably give us a quick-start for the freed mines.
@Steel Cabal & Sapphire Cabal: If we indeed are able to fish in both their lakes with some success, we could approach both (discretely) and establish us as a kind of fall-back provider to decrease their dependency of the respective other. This reduced dependency might be enough to elevate their concerns about our rise long enough, to eventually surpass both to the point where no one can make without us.
@Trait - Mmm yeah I do suppose. It's just slightly annoying that it is the one knowledge skill that tries to slip away :P
Edit: Though I figured out I might as well just grab Lore as a background skill instead.
@Rock Paper Scissors - I like it, as long as it's just not X does 150% extra to Y. I'd rather have X be heavily armoured enough to tank Y while encumbered enough to be bogged down by Z or kitted by Å.
Or, alternatively, have the troops be actual gigantic scissors running around. I think that gag would make any flaws in gameplay worth it. Well at least for a little while!
@Plan - From a glance it looks reasonably good. Since I'm not 100% on how hard things will be, that's good enough for me. I mean there's probably going to be a whole heap of unforeseen stuff and people trying to wiggle out of our grasp - but that day that sorrow eh^^
My main concern is going for the mantids early, especially if we all-in on exterminating them. The antivenom might not help if they turn out to have CR 10+ members!
But I guess we actually don't have to win, just make a good enough show and say 'look at what we accomplished while everyone else lazied about!'.
Other thing worth thinking about is how hard the antivenom might be to reverse engineer or replicate. If we are going to disperse it early and eagerly to push inland, others might also want in on the cake.
I'm not sure how to migrate or solve this one, but it might be worth to keep in mind.
Minor note: There doesn't seem to be an issue 3 under objective 2. Something that simply got edited out or actually eaten by something?
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I tinkered a bit more with Jhaelwyn!
First I booped my dex up a bit and picked up Precise shot. Won't make me a perfect archer, but the occasional javelin will hopefully hit. Plus melee takes no feats really and the alternatives I was looking at were *uh* much more narrow.
The cost was a bit less Con. Juuuust a little less.
Then I removed the Necromancy Implement from her. I felt that I might not get full value out of it in our group. Hard to Animate too much Dead with a paladin and a bunch of nice guys around!
The things I were really looking to use were Pernicious Poison, but I couldn't afford that many poisons in the first place, and Soulbound Puppet. And that one circles back a little to the previous paragraph.
Though depending on how things turn out I might just grab Necromancy again for those two : )
Instead I picked up Abjuration. It really helps shore up on her defences and it let me pick up touch-range Dispel Magic as a Focus Power. Feels like a useful thing to have, especially since our Haste and Fly needs seems to be fulfilled (eventually!).
TL:DR I swapped Necromancy for Abjuration because of party and totally not because Jhaelwyn might die to a stiff breeze as I took even more points from Con and slapped them in Dex.
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Questions at GM!
1) Do we know approximatively what CR range the mantids occupy?
Like "small critters around 2-3, then big ones around 7 and there's rumours of a really large one about 12" or something.
2) Do you have any particular feelings about Bleed damage?
I'm thinking of grabbing Splintering Weapon. It's cool and a bit extra damage on javelins is nice.
But it also means that Jhaelwyn could throw throw a spear or two at something big and then just wait for it to die while being invisible/running away. Won't work on things that can heal or so, but against most big dumb things it'd be perfect (if there's patience).
3) Do you mind Explosive Runes or similar shenanigans?
Occultists get early access to the wonderful spell that is Node of Blasting. It's basically touch-triggered Explosive Runes. Unless of course the enemy is mindless (but then they probably wouldn't read the runes anyhow!).
At the very least it's a handy trap to have for ambushes. If we are really generous, it would be the perfect spell to put on the tip of someones arrow or spear and use as an alpha strike!
edit: 4) Does Lore: Mantids qualify as a narrow enough Lore skill?
I figured I don't need the whole know:dungeoneering skill and this might work out perfectly : )
@Alignment - Surtur actually seems like a Good guy. So things are certainly leaning that way : )
Some more questions!
5) Which components would you like for Jhaelwyn to use for her magic?
As written psychic magic uses Emotion (instead of Somatic) and Thought (instead of Verbal) components. They work a little bit different from the normal components.
Main point is that they are silent, which is very handy for someone that can cast Invisibility. They can also be cast while Pinned/Paralyzed.
Additionally there's never a need for material components of negligible cost (basically Eschew Materials for free like a Sorcerer).
Now everything isn't just an upside. Spells with Emotion components can't be cast while under negative emotions (shaken, feared or Crushing Despair ect). Spells with Thought components have tough concentration checks (+10 unless caster uses a Move action to center themselves).
Now for an ambush hunter the perks are really nice while the drawbacks hopefully won't bite Jhaelwyn too often. So staying with Emotion and Thought components would be better.
Swapping over to Somatic and Verbal isn't really that bad, I just need to know so that I don't plan on using Verbal spells while invisible : )
6) Do you have any opinion on which alternative racial traits Jhaelwyn picks up?
I'm thinking of grabbing Desert Runner, which is basically Endurance light, despite there being no desert right here. Mostly because Elven Magic isn't too useful and freezing to death seems bad.
I'll only make one small note, something that Surtur would already know:
Mantids aren't capital-E Evil. They are basically just wild animals, even if they are an invasive and dangerous species. However, Benji may still be interested in joining in on killing them for the sake of safety, or the good of the region, because they're dangerous and they threaten innocent people.
Would you like me to respond to the rest of the plan with what kind of council you might have gotten, or would you prefer more time on the details with your team?
@Rock Paper Scissors - I like it, as long as it's just not X does 150% extra to Y. I'd rather have X be heavily armoured enough to tank Y while encumbered enough to be bogged down by Z or kitted by Å.
Also @Jhaelwyn, vis a vis r/p/s: Good point. When I said I don't like rock/paper/scissors, I meant in the more explicit 'x is implemented to just simply beat y, regardless of circumstance' in a way that necessarily fit in with the rest of the design. Designing more nuanced rules and having counters come naturally out of those rules does not qualify, in my mind, as rock/paper/scissors design.
@J and Everyone: Due to Jhaelwyn's familiarity with the mantids you'd be able to get a good description of how they fight, how tough they are, etc. I won't share straight up stats with you (yet, at least) but the small ones are somewhere in the CR 2-3 range, and the big ones somewhere between 5-7 (yes, I know that's a large range). You yourself have probably never managed to penetrate a nest far enough to see/fight a queen, but you've heard that their capabilities mostly revolved around weakening enemies so the rest of the nest can more easily dispatch them (dazing sonic attacks as well as sickening and mesmerizing chemical sprays).
Bleed can be a pain in the ass to keep track of mechanically speaking, but it's a legit tactic. Go for it if you life. Causing a debilitating wound and then hiding until the enemy is dead is great if you can pull it off!
Explosive runes/etc are fine.
Lore(Mantids) is a suitably narrow skill, though it runs the risk of becoming defunct if you guys actually manage to exterminate them!
As for your Emotion/Thought stuff, don't worry about trying to mechanically adapt the class or casting - go with whatever's there. We'll just think of it as a rare but known branch of arcane casting and handle any weirdness as and when we get to it. I'm mucking about with enough rules changes right now to add that to the list. :)
Generally speaking, all racial traits are available - I like playing around with those as well. And technically some of the interior badlands may well count as Desert terrain-wise. Not sand-dune desert, but more Mojave-type.
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Merry's Holy Symbol is a thin sheaf of grass, hay, wicker, or other similar material looped into a figure-eight and tied in the middle with some kind of ribbon or fabric (people tend to use the richest material they can get ahold of as a method of praise, but Merry has never made a preference known. Poor people might tie the loop with simple twine or unraveled string). It is often worn on a necklace of some sort - leather thong or simple chain. Plenty of faithful adherents simply carry it in a pocket, though.
Merry has very few calls to 'mass' or assembled worship. The devout are expected to keep her in mind as they go about their day and chores. A quick prayer that the cow gave good milk, or thoughts of praise that the rains came on time - these are all Merry desires. Devout communities might say a quick prayer (or raise a tankard of ale) when they gather in the evenings for communal suppers or to share drink and gossip, if that is the way of their community. The only times when it is considered appropriate to take time away and celebrate Merry's worship more mindfully is during festival days (when you'd be taking time away anyhow!). At these times - whatever holidays and festivals the people might observe anyways - Merry loves it when people call her name in joy, as they dance and sing and drink, so she might be joyful with them.
Merry does not awe, nor leave her followers trembling after her presence. She brings warmth, and comfort, and mirth. She brings joy at simple pleasures and good company. Merry is old wood and warm bread and the dull glint of steel in the corner. Merry is a newborn's laugh. Merry is a young woman dancing on a bright summer day.
Nope, Gork would never have seen mantids before. So far as anyone knows, they have never been seen anywhere else in the world.
In the bandit situation, Merry would be of the mind that you've done your duty by talking to them in the first place (assuming you went into it honestly trying to get them to stand down, surrender, whatever - which Merry would know). After that, killing is probably justified - though when the opportunity comes to take somebody alive without undue risk to yourself or those with you, you should probably take it.
Extenuating circumstances may come in when you account for how the bandits themselves have behaved: Have they shown willingness to extend mercy even when raiding caravans? Are they raiding because they are starving and simply trying to survive? Have they been brutal and cruel? Etc. How much violence to use will always be a judgment call.
Awesome.
Love what I'm reading, really.
...
When do we get this started ;-)
I really will get on that RP post today - probably this evening. That'll be at least a mechanics-free way to get you guys interacting. I imagine I'll ask for your 'initial' post to be an introduction from yourself to Surtur, in your characters words, and then you'll all be talking in a group.
I will be out of town this weekend (starting friday afternoon) and unlikely to post much or at all. But we'll probably get the campaign proper started next week.
edit: Forgot one thing
Due to the materials used in Merry's symbol of worship, it is fully expected that they'll eventually fall apart and need replacing. While the tie material, if expensive, is often salvaged, the rest is disposed of. The method of 'disposal' need not be elaborate. Some burn them with reverence, others place them above the mantel on or a windowsill (until such places are covered with old holy symbols). It is tradition in some places to plant them in the earth along with the spring planting.
Drekisal would likely point out that actual extermination of the mantids might be bad for our plans--we should push them back enough to claim some land, but keeping them around could prove useful.
As for bluffing, Drekisal has a rather clever tongue (+12 Bluff). :) He'd agree that, while we should have a general idea of the later steps of our plan, we probably need some on-the-ground experience to get more information before committing to further steps. We might even want to see about opportunities for mercenary work in the major towns before we 'settle down'--it would establish our reputation and give us an opportunity to see things first-hand.