Eidolon's Free Evolutions


Rules Questions


Can a Quadruped Eidolon drop its Free Evolution of Bite to allow it to concentrate on another attack form, such as claws. A 4th lvl Eidolon gets 7 Evolution Points and 4 Maximum attacks with Natural Weapons. This is not about trading the free evolutions (which has already been discussed on the boards and denied), just dropping.

Free Evolutions (Quadruped) bite, limbs (legs) (2)

Drop Bite.
Evoultions Purchased (7 Points)
Limbs (Arms) (2), Claws (Legs) (1), Claws (Arms) (1), Improved Damage (Claws) (1), Scent (1), Skilled (Perception) (1).

This setup allows for 4 x Claws damage, vs 1 Bite, 2 Claws and another Natural Attack. This is aiming towards then Rend ability and is an example with simple numbers.

TL;DR Can Free Evolutions be dropped?


No, those are the basic evolutions of that base form. The base form has those 'free' evolutions that are considered a part of its basic self.

You could consider any character to essentially have the free evolutions (generally) of Limbs (arms x2, legs x2)

Dark Archive

I bet you'll wonder "Why do I have to have these free evolutions? They get in the way of my awesome 4-clawed 3-tentacled quadruped with pounce!"

Balance, sir, balance.

^--- Also, why I will never make a quadruped eidolon.


Kilbourne wrote:

No, those are the basic evolutions of that base form. The base form has those 'free' evolutions that are considered a part of its basic self.

You could consider any character to essentially have the free evolutions (generally) of Limbs (arms x2, legs x2)

It'd be a DM choice. I personally would be ok with it. You aren't gaining anything. Technically you may be able to just buy the second set of claws anyways and only be able to use "any 4 attacks" in a round, because no matter how many options you have you are limited in max number by the chart.

Sovereign Court

Didn't you just change it from a Quadruped to a Biped?

Limbs(legs) to Limb (arms)

Bite to Claw

By dropping the extra legs you lose the speed...

So really you wanna get the saves and the stats of the Quadruped and teh Attack, Speed and Free Evolutions of a Biped


"Max. Attacks: This indicates the maximum number of natural attacks that the eidolon is allowed to possess at the given level. If the eidolon is at its maximum, it cannot take evolutions that grant additional natural attacks. This does not include attacks made with weapons."
I want to get to a Rending Machine and you cannot rend with a Bite, nor can you have the extra set of Claws because it would give you 5 possible attacks, which breaks the 4 max attack limit. (Yes I know you cannot take Rend until 6th Level, I exampled this at 4th to keep the numbers simple).
Why a Quadruped vs Biped? Because of the Pounce evolution.


You can't by RAW.. and probably shouldn't.

Its the only attack you get I do believe, that bypasses all of the physical damage reductions (being b/p/s at the same time)

-S

Sovereign Court

but it is not a quadruped. it is a biped. as soon as you try and "lose" leg in favour of arms it ceases being a "Quad" and becomes a "Bi"


OilHorse wrote:
but it is not a quadruped. it is a biped. as soon as you try and "lose" leg in favour of arms it ceases being a "Quad" and becomes a "Bi"

My understanding is that the OP only wants to drop bite, not all of the free evolutions.

In his example the eidolon would still have two pairs of legs, it would just also have a pair of arms, for six limbs total. The result would, in my mind look a lot like a centaur.

I would also agree that you cannot give up the Bite attack, as pouncing eidolons are already fairly ridiculous damage beasts.


doublebear wrote:
OilHorse wrote:
but it is not a quadruped. it is a biped. as soon as you try and "lose" leg in favour of arms it ceases being a "Quad" and becomes a "Bi"

My understanding is that the OP only wants to drop bite, not all of the free evolutions.

In his example the eidolon would still have two pairs of legs, it would just also have a pair of arms, for six limbs total. The result would, in my mind look a lot like a centaur.

I would also agree that you cannot give up the Bite attack, as pouncing eidolons are already fairly ridiculous damage beasts.

Just to point out, the Half-Elf favored class bonus is a 1/4 evolution point per level, so every 4 levels you get another evolution point. Add to that the feat Extra Evolution which you can take every five levels and by 20th level you've got 9 extra Evolution points. Play a half-elf and you can afford to add arms to your quadruped without worrying about the bite.


I would say officially no, especially if this would be in a tourney or something official like that. The official reason I would have to argue is because there are plenty of evolution attacks out there that actually state that you can use them to replace the free evolutions, but you still have to pay the cost, so you basically use it or loose it.

Now if your GM allows you to, it might be reasonable to have your eidolon with no free evolutions at all an then you get the points for it, however if I were the GM and allowed this I would insist these extra evolutions be bought first and then that becomes the base form of the creature.

Personally I feel that having based forms was an annoying thing to do and ruined a lot of flexibility into what we may want to create but they didn't so you just got to live with it.

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