I get the sense that we're outclassed. I'm skeptical we could win even if in peak shape with all our resources. I agree with Velika. We bluff and try to hide the all-key, while givng up the rest.
Agreed! These guys sound pretty mean.
Really? I got the sense this was a bunch of low level hired thugs with two leveled baddies.
Yeah, probably 6 level 1-2 thugs, and 3 npcs higher level than us. At close to full strength I would have given it a go.
Yeah, full strength would be different. As-is I have a couple of Burning Hands which could probably take down weaker thugs (depending how they bunch together) but a lucky hit or two from the leaders could take us down quickly. Especially if any of them can Sneak Attack.
We could always report them to the authorities at least, maybe they will be able to recover the stuff!
You’ll get another shot at them, believe me.
Okay, that’s the end of Chapter One of “Night of Dissolution.” First things first: Congratulations on making it 5th level everybody! Take some to level up and don’t forget that everyone gets a Hero Point (to a limit of 3).
Now on to our decision. When we started this, we agreed to play both “Night of Dissolution” and “The Banewarrens”, alternating between the two and leveling as narratively appropriate. However, if anyone is second-thinking that, this is a good time to speak up. Based on the year it took us to play this one chapter, our plan will take over a decade to conclude. Now personally, that’s an exciting prospect for me. But if you’re thinking you’ve bitten off more than you want to chew, now is the time to say so.
Otherwise, we’ll move on to Chapter One of The Banewarrens when you have leveled up.
I am good with the long haul.
I have no desire to stray from the original plan.
WHen we level up, should we just update the character page? Or do you want a post here with what changed?
I think the latter would be helpful. If you have some reason you don't want your fellow players to know what you're up to, you can just put it in a spoiler.
Also, if any of you have crafting or time-consuming things you want to do, now's the time. There is no rush moving into the next chapter. Later, there may be more time pressure.
Holys (like almost all my characters seems to) would like a hot bath and a sandwich next. :-D
I'll post updates here so others are aware what extra stuff Holys will be able to do.
I'm definitely in it for the long haul, as Silas puts it.
I'm wondering if we can find out what's in the Winged Chest before we decide what to craft/buy. So we know what resources we have to work with. Just a thought.
I do not remember and I am not finding it. How did we determine HPs? Its looking like half+1 but I am not sure and the Player's Guide Supplement is not working.
I'll look at the link later today when I get the time. It's average rounded up, however.
Velika, yes, you can use the All-Key on the Winged Chest first. I'll write that up later today.
Silas, the Player's Guide link (found on the Campaign Info tab, above) should take you to DriveThruRPG, where you can download a free copy.
BTW, I misspoke. The next chapter we're doing is Chapter Two of "Night of Dissolution."
I'm still up for the original plan. I'm traveling, so it'll be difficult to level up Tilver quickly. I'm hoping to explore what you can do with Inspiration more
I see three likely scenarios for loot.
1. Sell the wand, shield and flail and split the loot.
2. Holys takes that wand. And the rest of us split the money for the flail and shield. (I don't imagine it would come close to the value of the wand per person but if I'm wrong, we can tally it differently).
3. Holys takes the wand and Silas takes the flail and then the rest of us can split the money for the shield (again, we can tally differently if that doesn't seem fair after selling the shield).
All of this assumes no one would use the shield as much as we would use the money - it's a lot of money - but if I'm wrong and anyone is dying for that shield, speak up.
For level 5 of Oracle, Dain gets:
+7 HP (5 for avg of d8, +1 Con, +1 Favored class, total 34)
5 SKill points: +1 each to Heal, Knowlwdge(Local), Sense Motive, Stealth, and Spellcraft
Caster level = 5
Concentration check +8
1 additional 2nd level spell cast per day (total 5)
1 new 1st level spell known - Bless
1 new 2nd level spell known - Iron Skin
Magill the raccoon gets:
-natural armor bonus increases to +2
-Intelligence increases to 7
-Gains the ability: Deliver Touch Spells
-Hit Points increase to 17
-Heal, Knowlwdge(Local), Sense Motive, Stealth, and Spellcraft all increase by 1
Level 5 Bard:
+6 HP, +3 rd Bardic Performance (+2 and +1 Favored class)
Inspire Courage goes to +2, new ability Lore Master
8 SKill points: +1 Perception, +1 Sing, +2 Dance, +1 Linguistics, +1 Know (Arcana), +1 Know (Machines), +1 Use Magic Device
Spells: +1/day 1st, +1/day 2nd
Learn 1 add'l 2nd level: Allegro (UM)
Used lvl 5 ability to unlearn a 1st level spell Unbreakable Heart and replace it with 1st level spell: Ear-Piercing Scream (UM)
New language learned: Undetermined yet
Other things Velika would like to do:
Find out how to reconstitute the angel.
Get her masterwork pistol enchanted to +1 (depending on whether she has enough funds after loot distribution).
Level 5 Bloodrager
+9 HP
5 Skill Points [Acrobatics, Perception, Stealth!, Survival, Swim]
New Spell Known- Feather Fall
Armor Training +1 [Reduce Armor Check Penalty and gain Max Dex bonus]
Thanks, Scott. Took Draconic and sheet is officially updated!
Level 5
Class Investigator
HP 6
BAB +1
Saves +1 Ref, +1 Will
Investigator abilities
Studied Combat As a move action, gain 1/2 level (+2 currently) to attack and damage for Int mod number of rounds (3 currently) or until Studied Strike is used
Studied Strike End Studied Combat to gain 1d6 damage on an attack
Fast Alchemy Halve the time it takes to make alchemical items
Extracts +1 2nd level (Barkskin)
Skills 9 skill points
Feats TBD
Notes:
Trapfinding bonus increases
Inspiration pool increases
Bonus to Craft Alchemy increases
Not sure on the feat just yet. Don't we all get feats? I didn't see anyone note them.
Yeah, everyone should gain a feat at 5th.
Feats! Excellent! I will take rapid reload for my Double Pistol.
I had it in my head that feats were at 6th level (must have been a 3.5 thing).
Dain will take Extra Revelation to get the Revelation Knife in the Dark.
Also, I missed earlier that at 5th level, his Oracle's Curse gives him Immunity to the Fatigued condition.
For level 5 of Oracle, Dain gets:
+7 HP (5 for avg of d8, +1 Con, +1 Favored class, total 34)
5 SKill points: +1 each to Heal, Knowlwdge(Local), Sense Motive, Stealth, and Spellcraft
Feat - Extra Revelation (Knife in the Dark)
Revelation - Knife in the Dark - As a standard action, you can make a sneak attack as if you were a rogue of your oracle level. You can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day at 5th level and for every 5 levels thereafter.
Oracle's Curse - Immune to Fatigued condition
Caster level = 5
Concentration check +8
1 additional 2nd level spell cast per day (total 5)
1 new 1st level spell known - Bless
1 new 2nd level spell known - Ironskin
Magill the raccoon gets:
-natural armor bonus increases to +2
-Intelligence increases to 7
-Gains the ability: Deliver Touch Spells
-Hit Points increase to 17
-Heal, Knowlwdge(Local), Sense Motive, Stealth, and Spellcraft all increase by 1
Also, I assume Tilver won't mind if Dain takes back his spear now that the chaos weapons have been taken from us.
Just waiting for Holys to level up. I know Andrew is going through some real life stuff, so we may start without him and let him catch up. Say that Holys has a stomach virus, not unlike the GM just now.
I see three likely scenarios for loot.
1. Sell the wand, shield and flail and split the loot.
2. Holys takes that wand. And the rest of us split the money for the flail and shield. (I don't imagine it would come close to the value of the wand per person but if I'm wrong, we can tally it differently).
3. Holys takes the wand and Silas takes the flail and then the rest of us can split the money for the shield (again, we can tally differently if that doesn't seem fair after selling the shield).
All of this assumes no one would use the shield as much as we would use the money - it's a lot of money - but if I'm wrong and anyone is dying for that shield, speak up.
So it seems like we are going with the 3rd of Velika's scenarios. Silas takes the flail (value about 8000 gp), Holys will surely want the wand (value 11250 gp), and Tilver/Velika/Dain split the sale of the shield (value about 25000 gp).
So while we wait for Holys to recover, we should sell off the shield and then make any purchases with the haul, yes?
I think that is a bad way to split up the stuff.
There is no way to make that equitable. Either someone claims an item that is minor and then gets way less then the rest or someone can claim a large item, wait a bit and then sell it and get way more then anyone else. This time it would be fairly equitable, but next time it is exceedingly unlikely that would happen again.
I think items collected in the adventure that the group will use should be used without question. If the item stops being used and is sold later it should then be divided and given to everyone. This should especially be true of items like wands or potions that are likely not what you really need but can benefit the group. The way you are suggesting, it really makes more sense for Holys to claim the wand and then since its his share he can just sell it for more and keep the extra to get something that actually helps him over the long haul.
I say now and going forward if there is an item someone would use it should count as a group item and given to them to use. If they ever reach a point they are not using it for any reason then it should be sold like any other unused group equipment and any equipment sold should always be split evenly to everyone in the party.
In the long run this lets people claim items that will help the party without having to decide between it and gaining money to try and find items that they need more. Or claiming something to get ahead later.
Well, I don't want to tell you guys how to run things, but what I've always found works well is to tally up the total value you'd get for selling everything, divide that by the number of party members and that's the value of each PC's share. Then each PC can pick items from the loot they want to keep up to that value in lieu of receiving the cash.
If there is an item (there often is) greater than the value of the share, the PC can put the extra money into the pot from his or her own reserves. That way everything remains even.
Sorry you are unwell, Scott!
Yes, things have been tough here. I didn't get to levelling up yet. I actually also have to go out of town from tomorrow morning until Sunday evening, so I will probably next be able to post on Sunday/Monday after work. Scott feel free to ping me for the level up if it slips my mind past then!
I'll try to check in one more time tonight. I have to go to the vet and the grocery store and do some laundry. So I could use some gaming to break up the chores with fun!
Dependent on how far you get in the next few days, perhaps Holys has a business meeting and rejoins the group after? He is a professional, after all. ;)
In the scrollback I see mention of a wand, but couldn't see what it is a wand of/charges/level. Could someone refresh my memory?
I'm happy to split loot however everyone else finds equitable.
Ok I see the wand now, I wasn't looking at the latest page. Yes, Holys will take the wand of Fireball. I'll update when I level him.
As advance warning I will need some adjudication when we use it about whether Holy's bloodline power (+1 damage per dice for fire spells) affects spells cast through wands or not - I don't know if this is directly covered by the rules.
The rules are a little vague, but I don't believe that using a wand is you "casting a spell."
That seems fair!
Well, I don't want to tell you guys how to run things, but what I've always found works well is to tally up the total value you'd get for selling everything, divide that by the number of party members and that's the value of each PC's share. Then each PC can pick items from the loot they want to keep up to that value in lieu of receiving the cash.
If there is an item (there often is) greater than the value of the share, the PC can put the extra money into the pot from his or her own reserves. That way everything remains even.
I've found in my past groups that things just tend to work themselves out in the end, but I understand peoples' concerns. So then, in the interest of complete fairness, I personally think Scott's method works best. This way everyone gets their fair share in the most timely manner and I'm sure we all have things we'd like to do with our money/resources.
If this ends up being the route we take, then rather than Dain's numbers we'd need actual resale value for the items to do the math. Assuming you get half value for the items on resale: Total loot value is 4000 + 5625 + 12500 = 22125. That comes to 4425 each. That means Tilver, Dain and Velika each get 4425. Silas gets a flail and 425. Holys gets the wand and puts 1200 in the group pot.
As a side note, if we decide to go this route, I'd personally be willing to get 4125 and lower Holys' cost to 900.
As long as everyone is happy I am not worried about what system we use (or even if we use a system). Like Silas said, unless we sell everything off all the time (which is lame and inefficient), it is likely that for most individual loot hauls, it won't work out evenly. I'm ok with that because I assume over time it will even out and none of us will be trying to take more than our fair share.
Dain in particular isn't very materialistic, and he would be more than happy to kick back part of his share so that Holys doesn't need to kick in money to take the wand, or to boost Silas' (or anyone else's) take if he needs some more cash for something. The more item's PCs keep and use, the better off the party is since we can rarely sell them for full value. If Dain's cut is high enough, he plans to buy a wand of Cure Moderate Wounds (he would need about 3500 to get to the 4500 gp cost).
That being said, the first order of business (for whatever method of divvying we use) is to sell off that shield and see how much we can get.
Does anyone have any traits or skills that would improve the sale price above half? Ptolus is a huge metropolis, so you can always easily find a buyer (often Myraeth of Myraeth's Oddities) for worth less than 20,000 gp.
Velika has a pretty great Sense Motive (+11) & Bluff (+11) and a decent Diplomacy(+7) depending on the "bargaining" tactics. She doesn't have a very good appraise but I think Holys does.
What happens when we find a great item and the person can't afford to pay the massive extra to everyone else.
The whole group benefits by people being well equipped and if we get a ring of Wizardry III and we can't afford to divvy it up are we just going to sell it off? Once we start on this path we will kind of be on it and if we get something really cool are we really going to sell it off because the person who would best benefit from it can't afford to pay off the rest of us or if we get said ring and I can afford to buy it in order to one day double my 3rd level spells from 1 to 2 will that really make the other casters happy?
I love getting my share of the gold. But we all benefit from Holys having that wand and making him drop 1200 GP on it seems wrong to me. The flail is nice but ultimately not important and I will drop my claim on it if people are really that in need of money at the moment. I can just go buy a +1 blade and not care. But selling items that help the group because we have a rule that says said person has to pay off the party or we lose it is not wise.
In my experience, groups using the scheme above simply carry a running tally. If the item is clearly story-related (an artifact like Neveran's All-Key, for instance), they ignore the item's value altogether.
But again, what ever feel right to the group is fine with me.
I don't think anyone suggested what you are arguing against, Silas, and if they did I would be 100% against it and totally on your side. As I said above, selling off cool magic items just to make it easy to split things evenly is "lame and inefficient".
Velika suggested that the items that characters found useful (the flail and wand) be taken by the characters that want them, and the useless (to us) shield be sold off and the gold split by those who didn't get an item. Even though the items were worth more than the gold from the sale, she was ok with that (and I agreed), because we assumed down the road it would even out. You sounded like you didn't like that idea, so when Scott suggested an alternative, we embraced that instead. Neither of us like the idea though that in that system Holys would have to pay to take the wand (and clearly you don't either), so we both said we'd kick back enough of our cut to make sure he could take the wand without paying anything.
So it sounds like we are in agreement that the characters/players should be encouraged to take and use magic items we find (and not have to pay a "penalty" because the item is very valuable). So that takes us back to Velika's original idea. I clearly misunderstood your objection to that, because it seems like its what you are arguing for in your most recent post.
I don't even think we need a "rule" for how to split the treasure. Each time we have a haul, items that characters want to use can be divvied up, unwanted items sold, then the coins split up in a way that best balances out how the items were split. Even if it's not complete equal each time, we can balance things our over time.
I'm willing to entertain almost any suggestions for distribution of loot. I have limited gaming experience but so far I haven't had any instances where I've felt cheated so I'm still pretty trusting. :) I'm not entirely certain I understand what you'd like to have happen, Silas so if you could clarify with specifics for this particular distribution, it would help me out.
As a side note, my ultimate goal is to gain another 3000ish gold to get my gun enchanted to +1 (since Velika has the limitation that she can only use guns she herself has crafted, my focus will be in that direction). If it doesn't happen this time around, that's fine. Just so people know where my particular interests lie. If I get more than that I'd probably buy another scroll of Versatile Weapon.
So if people like I can start a group chart to track shared items that people are using on Google Drive.
If we just sell the shield and split it evenly all 5 of us get 2500 GP and when we previously sold items we received 763.6 GP. Assuming we hold the 3 GP for later us that gives each off us 3263 GP to spend.
Assuming I am not slowed the flail is nice but not necessary for me so we can sell that for another 852 GP each with the 3 gp in the pot going away. Giving us 4115 gp to spend alone or as a group.
We may want to look into getting some group items like one or more CLW wand(s) before we go to much further or some scrolls of things like Remove Disease, Remove Curse, Remove Blindness, etc. as I do not think we currently have access to those and they can be important and fit into the group item sheet.
Does this sound like it handles what everyone needs right now?
Do we want group items?
Scott, can I find a set of Eyes of the Eagle for sell?
Yes, Holys doesn't have 1200 for the 'group pot' to offset the cost of the wand, so it will have to be an IOU.
I think we have agreed that items like the wand or the incense that will help the group to keep will just be in the group pot and you just happen to be the one to carry it and use as needed.
And in the share of funds I listed above Holys would get the same 4115. For what its worth I am going to give Velika 150 GP as she has been very kind in using her wand on the party.
Yes I would consider buffing/healing wands to be 'group' items as well! (Incidentally while levelling him, I realised that he has a Cure Light Wounds wand as well. I'll try not to forget about that.) I have updated Holys to level 5, here are the changes:
+1 level of Sorceror
Hit points: 6 (average + CON modifier)
Favoured class bonus: extra 1st-level spell
Skill points: Appraise, Profession:Barrister, Appraise, Knowledge: Local, Perception, Use Magic Device
Spells: True Strike (1st), Obscuring Mist (1st), Burning Gaze (2nd)
Feat: Combat Casting
I will also email the files to you, Scott, and update the profile here on the forums.
I don't want to cause uneccesary strife, so if everyone else is ok with it, i will go along with Silas' method, but i have to say that i think its ridiculously unbalaced. Essentially, if Holys takes the wand, we sell the flail and shield, and split the gold into 5 equal shares, then 4 of us get a single share of the treasure while Holys gets a roughly quadruple share. How does that make more sense than Holys getting the wand, while the gold is split 4 ways amongst the others? The wand is still worth more than the share of gold, but its only about 2.5 shares, so its at least as close as we can make it.
I agree that Holys taking and using the wand is good for the group, just like it would be good for the group if Silas took the flail and used it. But its equally good for the group if Velika gets a big enough share of the gold and uses it to enchant her pistol, or if Tilver uses his share to enchant his spear, or Dain uses it to buy a healing wand. Ultimately, i think it's best if we split things as evenly as possible so that everyone can get a roughly equal amount of cool things to help the group (granting that sometimes someone will get more because of us finding a particularly valuable item).