I wanna apologize for my behavior yesterday. The tension of the current in-game situation combined with stress from a marathon of work days and general sleep deprivation resulted in me being more "emotionally volatile on main" than I meant to be, and I think I said some unfair things. For that, I am sorry.
Tarondor, your GMing in this fight, considering the circumstances, has been incredibly generous and fair. You pulled out as many GMing tricks as you could to keep me alive despite the forum dice rollers best efforts, and I'm incredibly grateful for that. No matter what happens going forward, thank you. Hopefully Wymond will be the only actual casualty in this fight...
Given that the past week of work for me has been a veritable tire fire, I can sympathize. All good on my front.
All good on my part. Emotion is part of being human. :)
I just hope you can find some fun in all this.
I know Perfire is going to miss his buddy. They've been through a lot together. I was thinking of retiring Perfire to find safer work back in town anyway because I just wasn't happy with his build so this will probably be what makes the decision for him, assuming he can make it back out!
First of all, I thought you were being wryly ironic, so I was oblivious to any rudeness, if there was any.
Second, no problem. If you feel nothing at losing a character that means that I haven't done a good job of helping to make that character -matter- to you.
So I'm not exactly sure what our options are here. Also, writing Lilika's scene made me teary eyed. (ಥ _ʖಥ)
I imagine Slaagh is strong enough to help move these people to safety, but I'm not sure Perf/Lilika would be able to clear the way for them. I suppose Lilika/Perf could treat wounds and rest/recuperate for some time?
Curious to understand what others are thinking. I'm fine continuing to play with Frizz, but also fine with collaborating on a new party comp. I imagine Lukas wants to play Lukas still sooooo...
¯\_( ツ )_/¯
Don't forget, there's still the fact that unless you can power through the remaining enemies on the upper floor and the mudman in particular (i.e. THE WHOLE REASON THIS FREAKING HAPPENED! D:<), we're stuck down here.
FWIW, I wouldn't be averse to, IDK, I guess "reimagining" Lukas if it helped fit a niche in a reconstituted party (like if he became Cloistered instead of Warpriest, or even became a Monk or something). We can talk about that at the appropriate time.
As a look behind the veil I was looking at wizard to help refill Perfire's 'magic-guy' role but I'd also be totally fine pivoting if someone else wanted to play a caster.
As to getting back out, was floor 6 the only floor we had a transport token for? I thought we'd found one for one of the higher floors but I could be mistaken.
GODDAMNIT I JUST CHECKED AND I HAD FIVE OF THE BLASTED THINGS AND SOME BARKSKIN POTIONS SITTING IN MY PACK THIS ENTIRE GODDAMN FIGHT!!!
G~!%*&NIT I JUST CHECKED AND I HAD FIVE OF THE BLASTED THINGS AND SOME BARKSKIN POTIONS SITTING IN MY PACK THIS ENTIRE G&+#@~N FIGHT!!!
Seeing that in light of my forgetfulness, I honestly don't know if I should feel better, or worse.
If it's any condolence, I almost always forget to check what I have in a pack. I could have fireballed this guy from my necklace.....
I once ran a very long D&D2e campaign in my own setting. The campaign was called "The Black Dragons" and followed the exploits of a state-sponsored adventuring group on a wild northern frontier. Well, for many years prior, I had made reference to a Moria-like lost city of the dwarves, stuffed with treasure and danger (I called it Azanargud). Once the characters reached about 10th level, the players demanded I bring on Azanargud so they could test themselves.
They made extensive plans. They hired servants, wagons, cooks, elaborate sets of dungeoneering gear, mapping equipment and ways to haul out the loot. Once they got into the depths they picked up some treasure but an encounter with trolls quickly killed their cleric. That's when they realized the one thing they'd forgotten - any form of healing. No scrolls or potions to be found.
None of them ever made it out alive.
We're all here to have fun and everyone ought to do what feels most fun. You want new characters, I have no problem with that. It's not as though a dungeon crawl requires serious continuity.
That said, Perfire is the only surviving original character. I'd like to see him stay, because I for one like continuity, even in a dungeon crawl. If you're planning on running a caster, you could just alter Perfire to fit that role, if you wanted to. You could say that he's seen what the Emerald Spire is like and goes into a training montage to fit a new model. Your choice, however.
Also, I'm fine with bringing back Wymond. There are interest groups that would help you with that, and interfacing with them gives us a chance for some more world-building. Or, Zousha can run any character he likes.
Same for Frizz and Lukas's players, of course.
So, let's solve this issue before moving on.
For what it's worth, the guys from Order of the Amber die also couldn't defeat the Mudlord on level 5 and used the token to come to level 6. They TPK'ed against Klarkosh. Their GM's solution was that Klarkosh threw them all into jail for a year and then let them go with a warning never to return. Then he booted them downstairs to an even harder level!
As to getting back out, was floor 6 the only floor we had a transport token for? I thought we'd found one for one of the higher floors but I could be mistaken.
You have a few tokens, but I believe you have only one "symbol" for a lower level, and that's the one that led you here. HOWEVER, note that you have seen symbols on the Emerald Spire on each of the levels from 1-6. PERHAPS you can draw some conclusions from that?
EDIT: On level 2 (the Cellars), you found a sigil keyed to level 4 (Godhome).
We're all here to have fun and everyone ought to do what feels most fun. You want new characters, I have no problem with that. It's not as though a dungeon crawl requires serious continuity.
That said, Perfire is the only surviving original character. I'd like to see him stay, because I for one like continuity, even in a dungeon crawl. If you're planning on running a caster, you could just alter Perfire to fit that role, if you wanted to. You could say that he's seen what the Emerald Spire is like and goes into a training montage to fit a new model. Your choice, however.
Also, I'm fine with bringing back Wymond. There are interest groups that would help you with that, and interfacing with them gives us a chance for some more world-building. Or, Zousha can run any character he likes.
Same for Frizz and Lukas's players, of course.
So, let's solve this issue before moving on.
I would very much like to keep playing Wymond: I created him back in 1e to be a Chosen One paladin, darnit! He's not gettin' out of his holy mission THAT easily!
If'ins ya don't mind, I'd like to retrain Frizz for her 5th level build. I plan to stay rogue but may tweak some things to be more efficient.
Sounds like a plan.
Proposed "new" Frizz.
She's much more combat effective (bye bye Archaeologist dedication...) and used her Rogue skills for medicine. But be careful because she learned all her medicine from reading books and never really practiced officially so it's Risky. I feel like her Nimble *, Incredible Initiative, and Tumble Behind all still capture the fact that she doesn't really sit still and seems to move out of place in the blink of an eye.
Pending GM approval...
ABC: Gnome (Vivacious Gnome), Tinker, Rogue (Thief)
1: Trap Finder, Unexpected Shift, Risky Surgery
2: Nimble Dodge, Wary Disarmament
3: Ward Medic, Incredible Initiative.
4: Tumble Behind (Rogue), Nimble Crawl
5: Gnome Obsession (Azlant), Continual Recovery
Ability Scores:
STR +0
DEX +4
CON +4
INT +2
WIS +1
CHA +1
Skills:
+13 Acrobatics
+9 Arcana
+7 Athletics
+9 Crafting
+8 Deception
+1 Diplomacy
+1 Intimidation
+11 Lore: Azlanti
+11 Lore: Engineering
+10 Medicine
+1 Nature
+9 Occultism
+8 Performance
+1 Religion
+9 Society
+13 Stealth
+8 Survival
+13 Thievery
Lastly, https://pathbuilder2e.com website is AMAZING for doing PbP now. :)
I have no problem with those proposed changes, Frizz. What's the estimated time and cost of retraining?
4th clairvoyance, lightning bolt, resilient sphere, stoneskin;
3rd fireball, haste, slow, stinking cloud, wall of wind;
2nd acid arrow, blur, hideous laughter, illusory creature, see invisibility;
1st fear, fleet step, magic missile, mending, pummeling rubble;
Cantrips acid splash, daze, detect magic, electric arc, light, read aura
Here's what I've got for Lukas' level ups:
Abilities: Str/Con/Wis/Cha each get the +2
Skill: Medicine to Expert
Ancestry Feat: I took Orc Ferocity, I think the old Vanivek Family tree has roots that grow deeper into Belkzen that Lukas thinks.
Spells: I added in 3rd level spells (Heroism and Neutralize Poison seemed like good choices), and I retrained Shield Other out to Dispel Magic. I also seemed to have a Domain spell picked, but I don't have the Domain Initiate feat, so I scrubbed that out.
I'm just going to have to edit HL's output into something that's actually helpful and readable, then I'll paste it in. If we decide as a party that we need something more casty-cleric, LMK and I'll revise/retcon. :)
Let me dissect the changes out piece by piece for how long it would take. Also, I cannot change my Ability Scores so I'll keep those the same.
As for cost, I couldn't find one. Looks to be GM determined.
Lastly, https://pathbuilder2e.com website is AMAZING for doing PbP now. :)
I use HeroLab (which is more expensive, but not in Beta). I was looking through Pathbuilder wondering if it had a better output for boards like this (because HeroLab's is ugly), but I don't think it does. Am I wrong about that? That's what could get me to switch.
If Wymond were alive, he'd remind them that the Goldenfire Order'd pay top dollar for Klarkosh's spellbook. And we ARE still looking for those two wizards, who should be easier to liberate with their captor dead.
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Soooo....
Rogue (Scoundrel) -> Rogue (Thief) = 1mo (Dex to damage and other mechanics)
Snare Crafting -> Risky Surgery = 1wk (MOAR healing!)
Archeaologist Dedication -> Nimble Dodge = 1wk (Can't touch this)
Weapon Prof (whip), Oddity Identification -> Ward Medic, Incredible Initiative = 2wk (Super fast and a caregiver)
Assurance, Settlement Scholastics - > Tumble Behind (Rogue), Nimble Crawl = 2wk (mobility!)
Athletics E -> T For Medicine T -> E = 1wk (Let's hit those high DCs)
Society E -> T for Intimidation U -> T = 1wk (More debuff options)
Total Downtime needed: 3 months
Cost?: TBD by GM
At Level 5 Frizz gets:
Diplomacy Trained
Stealth Expert
Con +3
Wis +1
Dex +4
Int +3
Gnome Obsession (Azlanti Lore E, Boost Engineering Lore to E)
Continual Recovery
I think the issue I ran into with Perfire was trying to get as close to what I was going for in 1e which I don't think really works for 2e. I can work on rejiggering him here and get him a little more combat-relevant.
So what do you, the players, want to do here? Let's get some ideas on the table and then let's get back to doing it.
Being dead, I'd like to be revived somehow, and presumably we'd need to exit the Spire to do that, and then either return to Fort Inevitable or visit Thornkeep. You can also locate those wizards who Klarkosh has captive and bring them with when you exit. By bringing them back to Thornkeep and maybe giving the Goldenfire Order some of Klarkosh's stuff, you'll get some goodwill with them and if they don't have spells/rituals that can bring me back to life, then they'll certainly be able to point us in the directions of groups who do.
Being dead, I'd like to be revived somehow, and presumably we'd need to exit the Spire to do that, and then either return to Fort Inevitable or visit Thornkeep. You can also locate those wizards who Klarkosh has captive and bring them with when you exit. By bringing them back to Thornkeep and maybe giving the Goldenfire Order some of Klarkosh's stuff, you'll get some goodwill with them and if they don't have spells/rituals that can bring me back to life, then they'll certainly be able to point us in the directions of groups who do.
I like this plan. However, I'm hesitant to continue exploring. Going meta a bit, there's a lot of map to uncover, so unless those wizards happen to be in the very next room, we could land in another encounter. Maybe Wymond could play Lilika for that one? idk, for me it's fun enough playing someone else's PC but I always felt like I wasn't doing her justice.
Anyway.... I vote we loot what we can from Klarkosh here safely then return to Thornkeep with Wymond. Use some time there and the loot we find to retrain/refit while we convincing the Goldenfire Order to resurrect our friend.
Perf, mind sharing your rough PF1e build? I'd love to see if I can help get you closer in 2e. There's a lot more material out now and with Secret of Magics releasing in August, I'd be very surprise if there wasn't something in there that scratched the itch for you.
Frizz's proposed plan sounds reasonable to me.
Perfire's old build is lost to the conversion to 2E. Basically he was aimed to use mostly battlefield control spells. He'd picked up some offensive stuff out of need(running into mindless stuff, things like that). He had the Arcane bloodline and I was going to take a bunch of metamagics and lean on those pretty heavy.
Perfire, if you need help or ideas, let me/us know!
I sure do. I've been looking at Nethys off and on for the last two days looking for inspiration and a direction to take him without WILDLY changing the core of the character and I'm just not feeling inspired. I think part of it might be inspiration overload.
Here's where I'm at with it. As to Bloodlines I think I like the granted spell suite of the Imperial Bloodline but the bloodline spells and blood magic abilities are pretty unappealing at first glance.
I also don't feel particularly confident in my feat or spell selection to this point. After my 3rd or 4th look at his sheet I realized I've been totally forgetting his halfling luck ability, though I don't think his contributions defensively have been the issue.
I think ability and skill selection I'm fine, it's mostly just effectiveness in combat.
battlefield control spells
Take a peek at the Occult spell list. There are lots of control/buff/debuff spells there.
I'm more of an expert on wizards than I am on sorcerers, but I do agree with Frizz that the most powerful use of magic isn't blasting. It's battlefield control (and buffing/debuffing). I was wondering whether a Marshal Dedication might not be interesting to you. There is an amazing synergy with the sorcerer's high Charisma. Characters like Wymond and Lukas and to some extent Frizz would benefit from the buffs a Marshall can throw out.
Sorcerers have a limited palette of options at each spell level and so I think maybe each level should have at least one utility/noncombat spell, one or two battlefield control spells and zero or one damage-dealing spell.
For my money, the best bloodlines are Arcane and Shadow.
Check out the Human Marshal and the Halfling's Shadow builds in Gortle's Guide to Sorcerers.
GM, can I please get a ruling on Frizz's retraining? I'll need to adjust my stats accordingly if it's approved. :)
Also, with in person gameplay coming to a table near you soon, have y'all seen the evolution of kitchen table RGP?
I'm sorry, Frizz... what? Are you talking about the cost?
Here's my question: who's going to be doing the training? That'll determine the cost. Let's role-play that a bit.
Perfire, we need to get a move on. What would you like to do?
After pouring over the sorcerer class I remained pretty uninspired even with the great input from y'all and the links you shared. I'm thinking I'm on the right path, or at least A right path, in terms of build so, at least for now, I'm going to keep his build the same. I need to take more advantage of the things I have already, like Arcane Evolution, to make Perfire a bit more versatile.
I may have just been kinda feeling bummed and helpless at Wymond going down and struggles with the dice roller. I may have just needed to take a step back and reassess what I'd built. I'll get him updated for 5th level tonight.
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Don't forget: YOU were the one who took Klarkosh down in the end! Be PROUD of that! :D
Indeed.
Also, games are for having fun. If you're not having fun, try something new! This is no serious saga we're in, so if you want to bench Perfire and run a fighter or rogue or barbarian or whatnot, have at it. I'm easy to please.
But let's keep this train moving.
Hey folks. I have a big jury trial through the 8th, so please don't expect much from me until then.
OK, good luck!
Did we lose Perfire? It's been almost two weeks.
Hey, sorry about that everyone. Got super busy and lost track of posting. I've for sure been following along but it looks like I've been forgetting to do my part!
Glad you're still with us!
GM, I think our Gameplay just got something intended for another game? :)
Frack! And I found it 1 minute too late to delete it.