OK, we have many questions so before I recap I'll try to answer all of them!
Blaze: Did my last action was unused?
Yes and no! Just after I finished my post I noticed that Astrid was Critical (-3) so she would have missed her second claw attack, thus making Evelina finish the half-orc and Blaze would have to use her fan of flames to finish the last bandit. In the end, the result would have been the same so instead of me re-writing my post I decided to leave it that way, since the results would have been the same.
Blaze: Can I hold my last action until the bandits attacked us?
No, because thanks to my former mistake, you'd not have your action. Giving you this would actually give you an advantage.
Blaze: Kinetic blasts and attacks of opportunity.
I've looking into the boards and it seems to have a consensus that each kinetic blast provokes TWO attacks of opportunity: one from using a spell-like ability (avoidable with casting defensively) and another one from being a ranged attack.
Evelina: What happened with the parry?
Your parry did activated but failed, so you have 2/3 panache. This also answers Blaze's question about why the enemies did not provoke an AoO from Evelina... when a swashbuckler uses her Opportune Parry and Riposte ability, it consumes her AoO from that round, unless she has the Combat Reflexes feat.
All: Can I take a 5-foot step?
Normally I'd say no but because you are fighting in front of the porch which could be allegedly to have more than average traffic, I'll consider the WHITE squares as normal terrain (LIGHT BLUE squares are still difficult terrain).
Besides these questions, there is another tiny problem from Blaze's action... the initiative order. Even if you can post in whatever order you can, I always resolve the actions in initiative order (not sure if you've noticed it yet) and Blaze is the last one of you! To delay/ready her action after Freya is able to move would also mean that all the enemies will be able to act.
Regarding the parry, that makes sense and was how I was counting it. Thanks. And yeah, no AoO's for me unless I don't parry. Sorry Blaze ;) Combat Reflexes is something I will eventually want to take, but I kind of needed all the level 1 feats that I took.
One possible mistake I noticed, though. I'm pretty sure Astrid shouldn't be in critical condition.
See the post below:
Spear in hand, Astrid creeps toward the outbuilding, walking carefully to keep her steps as quiet as possible. Having used a prayer of healing upon leaving the men behind , her injuries no longer impede her movement, but still she half-holds her breath, cautious of drawing notice. When she sees the layer of ice on the outhouse door, she lets her breath go slightly, a white puff in the cold air. No concern, she whispers to her nearest companion. No one's used those doors for an hour at least, and if someone is inside by strange chance, they won't join us easily breaking through it.
The roll isn't included in the quote for some reason, but she healed 7 points of damage.
Ug I walked into the house this afternoon to find it 83 degrees (Fahrenheit). Makes me wish I were in some snowy, witch-haunted woods :).
Regarding the parry, that makes sense and was how I was counting it. Thanks. And yeah, no AoO's for me unless I don't parry. Sorry Blaze ;) Combat Reflexes is something I will eventually want to take, but I kind of needed all the level 1 feats that I took.
One possible mistake I noticed, though. I'm pretty sure Astrid shouldn't be in critical condition.
See the post below:
Spear in hand, Astrid creeps toward the outbuilding, walking carefully to keep her steps as quiet as possible. Having used a prayer of healing upon leaving the men behind , her injuries no longer impede her movement, but still she half-holds her breath, cautious of drawing notice. When she sees the layer of ice on the outhouse door, she lets her breath go slightly, a white puff in the cold air. No concern, she whispers to her nearest companion. No one's used those doors for an hour at least, and if someone is inside by strange chance, they won't join us easily breaking through it.The roll isn't included in the quote for some reason, but she healed 7 points of damage.
Crap! I swear I searched for it! Ok, since Astrid wasn't in critical condition, I'll retcon and make post and make Blaze use her fan of flames. Only one problem: with Eveline's position she won't be able to use it properly... will you wish to change it to a normal single-target attack? Or will you burn Eve and hope for the best?
Or will you burn Eve and hope for the best?
There has been a truly alarming quantity of discussions about setting me on fire lately.
Or will you burn Eve and hope for the best?There has been a truly alarming quantity of discussions about setting me on fire lately.
It's a good thing there's no one nearby, because I audibly snort-laughed at that comment. :)
Ug I walked into the house this afternoon to find it 83 degrees (Fahrenheit). Makes me wish I were in some snowy, witch-haunted woods :).
It's 90+ degrees outside here every day right now, 100+ many days...and my bedroom is still so cold that I wake up shivering most days despite sleeping beneath a comforter. At least right now I can get warm by going outside. :P
Blaze: Did my last action was unused?
Yes and no! Just after I finished my post I noticed that Astrid was Critical (-3) so she would have missed her second claw attack, thus making Evelina finish the half-orc and Blaze would have to use her fan of flames to finish the last bandit. In the end, the result would have been the same so instead of me re-writing my post I decided to leave it that way, since the results would have been the same.Blaze: Can I hold my last action until the bandits attacked us?
No, because thanks to my former mistake, you'd not have your action. Giving you this would actually give you an advantage.
Ok, this makes sense. But to be honest, it hurts Blaze's strategy a bit with Evelina having stepped toward the door since it put her back in the potential line of fire... It's workable though.
Blaze: Kinetic blasts and attacks of opportunity.
I've looking into the boards and it seems to have a consensus that each kinetic blast provokes TWO attacks of opportunity: one from using a spell-like ability (avoidable with casting defensively) and another one from being a ranged attack.
I'd be interested to see the source for that, I've never seen any one action provoke 2 separate AOO's. But for now I'll just point some parts out from the class. "Infusions come in two types, each of which changes a kinetic blast differently: a substance infusion causes an additional effect, while a form infusion causes the kinetic blast to manifest in a different way.
Fan of Flames is a form infusion: "Your kinetic blast extends in a fan of flames, damaging all creatures and objects in a 15-foot cone."
This changes it from a ranged attack into an area effect, mimicking the spell burning hands. As another example, Kinetic Blade is a form infusion that actually changes the form into a melee attack.
Element(s) universal; Type form infusion; Level 1; Burn 1
Associated Blasts any
Saving Throw none
You form a weapon using your kinetic abilities. You create a nonreach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter. (If you're a telekineticist, you instead transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand.) The kinetic blade's shape is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the damage dice, critical threat range, or critical multiplier of the kinetic blade, nor does it grant the kinetic blade any weapon special features. The object held by a telekineticist for this form infusion doesn't prevent her from using gather power.
You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it's part of another action (and isn't an action itself), using this wild talent doesn't provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier). The blade disappears at the end of your turn. The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type. Even if a telekineticist uses this power on a magic weapon or another unusual object, the attack doesn't use any of the magic weapon's bonuses or effects and simply deals the telekineticist's blast damage. The kinetic blade doesn't add the damage bonus from elemental overflow.
All: Can I take a 5-foot step?
Normally I'd say no but because you are fighting in front of the porch which could be allegedly to have more than average traffic, I'll consider the WHITE squares as normal terrain (LIGHT BLUE squares are still difficult terrain).Besides these questions, there is another tiny problem from Blaze's action... the initiative order. Even if you can post in whatever order you can, I always resolve the actions in initiative order (not sure if you've noticed it yet) and Blaze is the last one of you! To delay/ready her action after Freya is able to move would also mean that all the...
I did notice the new initiative order, though I wasn't sure why it was re-rolled. I generally just roll the new bad guys entering initiative and insert them into the established order when combat was already going on, but to each his own.
Speaking is a free action and so it does not necessarily have to occur on the speaker's turn. As Freyja had already acted, but not used a movement during her action, I expected she would still be able to take a step in this round and then Blaze would move and act. But if you want to treat this like chess, (i.e. no more adjustments once you "take your hand off the piece"), and Freyja may not use her remaining move action after Blaze asked her, I can deal with that but it's not the way I have typically played. In most games, the actions remain available to the player until the next round has begun.But putting that aside for a moment, I had posted that if Freyja could not move, I would change my action. Since she has only blue squares behind her, this would be the case regardless. So instead of stepping to the southeast, Blaze will step north instead and blast the three she can include from that position. Using the concentration check to avoid AOO's... hopefully...
There has been a truly alarming quantity of discussions about setting me on fire lately.
Don't worry. I'm really not going to burn a party member if I can possibly help it! ^_~
Sorry this took so long to get posted, I was working on it when I had a visitor and ended up chatting until past bedtime. Apologies for being so long-winded, but there was a lot to discuss. Frosty, if anything I said isn't clear, let me know and I will try and reword it to make better sense. =)
1) Regarding the AoOs and the Fan of Flames.
Actually, all ranged touch attacks provokes two AoOs. HERE is the official FAQ about it. It provokes once for casting the spell (that can be avoided by casting defensively) and once for being a ranged attack. With your kinetic blasts the same occur, since they are Spell-like Abilities and ranged attacks.
About the Fan of Flames, we need to reach a consensus if it is a weapon or not. If it IS a weapon, it is a ranged one and 'firing' it would provoke an AoO. If it ISN'T a weapon, you don't get bonuses from Inspire Courage and some feats. The Kinetic Blast ability states it IS a weapon and nowhere in the Infusion description it mentions that it (the kinetic blast) ceases to be a weapon when you use a form infusion, just that it manifests in a different way.
I'm good with either options but this needs to be a final decision.
2) The initiative order.
I haven't rolled again for init... you all just delayed to act after Freyja so you'd be able to benefit from her Inspire Courage in the beginning of the fight. Since then the order is the same.
From your gameplay post I understood you where going to delay... the way you posted now makes a lot of sense and I'm ok with it since Freyja hasn't moved yet, except that she can't 5-foot step into it since it is difficult terrain.
Ok, thanks for the link. I have been under the impression that when an infusion changes the form of the blast, it ceases to be a ranged touch attack based on the fact that you no longer roll to hit in same way you could not call burning hands or fireball a "ranged" attack. I will do some more research on the subject and see if I can figure out the "right" way to do this. I need to know it anyway considering I may see kineticists again at my PFS tables and based on this, I didn't take a number of AOO's I might should have.
Thanks for being forgiving of the action jostling, this is a bit of a complex combat!
If Blaze does not roll to hit with the fan I would not consider it a weapon. Magic Missiles do not get the benefit from the bard song but acid arrow does. You can sneak attack with Acid Arrow but not magic missiles. etc. The to hit roll is the key I think.
What happened to the half orc that broaden down our wolf?
She got wrecked by Arvanya and Astrid's timely crits.
I think she's still alive. Just knocked out.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Sudden promotion opportunity (interviewed today), sudden workload increase, sudden dentist appointment, sudden sleeping issues...life really needs to stop happening all at once. I'll catch up later tonight.
Hey, I will be out of town this weekend starting tomorrow morning and will have limited access to my computer for posting until next Tuesday. Going to Dragon Con. :)
The way I see it, moving her could be done with both the grapple and the drag combat maneuvers.
Grapple: Grapple on first round, then on the following round take the 'move' option, moving her half your speed. With this, you'd move her a max of 15ft.
Drag: Like the normal check. With this you'd move her 5ft + 5ft for every 5 that your CMB is higher than her CMD.
I'm not sure about how high would be her CMD but I think it should be 5, thus not applying neither her Str and BAB to it and subtracting -5 since her Dex counts as 0.
Looks like the Drag is the best one in this situation because even if only a 10, you'd move her both in the first and in the second round 10ft each (20ft in total).
Thanks Frosty, that's helpful. If Arvanya drags her, can Blaze use her action to aid and somehow manage to not be in the way of their movement at least?
I just noticed the "freezing aura". Probably it doesn't change things given how much damage she took, but I just wanted to point out that Freyja has cold resistance 5.
I'd rather not change Arvanya's action since she already posted, but Astrid is the last one so she'll move to her 'current' position just after you act. You could easy move besides Freyja, and drag her back.
Additionally to the freezing aura, these nasty skellies also deal cold damage with their claws. I indeed noticed she has cold resistance but the problem is that she took max damage from both claws (1d4+2 each for 12 total).
@Evelina: If you care to look at the combat rolls spoiler, you'll notice that by a merely 1 Evelina is alive! The skeleton critted with his claw (a total of 22) and Eve got injured before by the first blast (putting her into wounded and thus increasing her penalty to -2) so she parried for an exact 22!
If you had not parried, the unconfirmed crit would have downed you (then at 3hp) and on your next turn you'd get 1d6 of cold from the aura and an additional 1d6 from his explosion.
This was a nasty spot for us, too.
/me is still eagerly following and seeing how things are different or the same for you.
I'm trying to be restrained with my commentary. Please let me know if I overstep. I just really enjoyed this AP.
Yikes! Is combat over now? Looks like we are still in rounds, but I don't see any more enemies.
Yes, we are still in combat mode! Not sure if you noticed but there is a spoilered Perception check for you to notice something...
I have no problem with your posts Almonihah! You are welcome to give us your comments, just try to not spoiler anything lol (I know you won't do that though).
Pssh...I think we are doing great.
My recommendation: Grab our bodies and run...
...also thank the heavens for timely natural 20s
Deleted my last game post bc I realize now the skeletons actually fell. Will repost soon.
So, I actually do have a question about disabled vs. unconscious.
If I am understanding the rules correctly, when you're in the negatives, but that amount is not greater than your con modifier, you are disabled. Beyond that you are unconscious. However, in Evelina's case she still has 2 hp left, but 3 nonlethal damage.
So my question is, would disabled still kick in, since she is at the equivalent of -1 (her con modifier)? Or does non-lethal not use that rule?
You are almost correct, Evelina!
A PC is disabled when he is from 0 to -Con and thereafter he is unconscious and dying.
If a PC has an amount of nonlethal damage equal to his current hp he is staggered (not disabled) and he remains staggered until the difference between his current nonlethal damage and his current hp are no grater than his Con modifier.
I had forgot about his interaction between Wound Thresholds and Nonlethal damage so you are correct, Evelina should be staggered (not disabled), and not unconscious.
Sorry I haven't posted in a couple of days! Still figuring out job/promotion stuff, still getting workload out of the way, still have sore throat/cough/earache, and now I'm looking at a possible relapse of the stuff that put me in the hospital. It is a fun, fun time to be me. :D
That was a good and timely healing roll! Is it enough to get Freyja back on her own two feet? Arvanya could maybe cover her and Evie while they run for cover and Blaze could back up Astrid with firepower while Auryel is called out of hiding to go with the others?
Sorry to hear you are ailing, Astrid! I am also fighting with a sinus infection or something, courtesy of my daughter's cold, but I'm managing. Hope the promotion stuff goes through!
Didn't realize that anyone had healing left. That should put Freyja back to grazed, which makes things a lot less grim.
Although, you may have hit a sore spot with Evelina calling her a liability...even if you are totally right ;)
Oh, that was on purpose, Evelina. Astrid gives precisely zero f$%+s about sore spots. Harsh honesty is her thing. :)
Sorry if anyone's got ears tender enough to bleed through the profanity filter. I just really didn't see Astrid taking something like hold person quietly, even if outwardly she's forced to. ;)
I am back and catching up Wow. You guys were prolific. A lot to get caught up on.
Freyja, just to let you know, your last action was to prepare an attack in case there was some space to attack. With Evelina's withdraw, that action will trigger just before Blaze's turn! 'You' even have activated your arcane strike.
OK. Hard to tell but I am not sure Freyja has acted in each round. If she could see the caster she would have cast Hideous Laughter on him that first round she saw him. Its just a DC14 will save but, hey, anyone can fail a save. And Blaze is currently in the spot she could attack from, so I am unsure if you mean Freyja's readied action would have been to step up and attack, blocking Blaze from doing so, or not.
Just a comment that this encounter after 2 or even three other fights back to back (depending on how you count it), without rest seems over the top for a first level group. Did we do something wrong?
Just a comment that this encounter after 2 or even three other fights back to back (depending on how you count it), without rest seems over the top for a first level group. Did we do something wrong?
We've definitely taken some hits, but I don't yet feel this is out of balance or harder than the norm for APs. For example, the players in my Crimson Throne game saw similar challenges in the very first fight. We still have resources...
@Freyja: Here is the round by round of Freyja's actions...
Round 1: Skeletons are fast and Freyja goes from full to unconscious in a flurry of claws.
Round 2: Freyja is still unconscious but already stable on her turn and conscious by the end of the turn.
Round 3: Stands up from prone and starts an Inspire Courage song.
Round 4: Draws your sword, uses Arcane Strike on your blade, and readies an action to step in and attack.
I thought about using the hideous laughter but since it would only last 1 round and you have no means of reaching the dude right now, I opted for the readied action.
With Evelina withdrawing, you can either trigger your readied action, attacking the zombie, but also blocking Blaze's attack, or forfeit it and act on your own turn (after Blaze).
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Regarding the sequence of the encounters, it is just the option of pressing on. I usually run "dungeons" (anything with monsters in rooms) in a more organic way according to its occupants. If the enemies in the rooms have reasons to fight alongside each other and they notice there is a fight on the other room, they'll for sure join... otherwise there would be no point of being stealthy and would also shatter the realism.
In this case you can be sure that this spellcaster is no random dude... he heard/saw you in the lodge and came to help. Actually might also be more enemies around to hear about the battle and join... or not :P
Ok. Knowing what Blaze can do, area effect wise, Freyja will let her take the front and instead of stay ready, restart her song. Thinking we should have just shut the door. In a meeting and unable to look at map. Could Freyja retrieve a potion of healing and give it to Astrid?
Oh geez, that was a stupid mistake with the concentration check. In this situation, she wouldn't risk losing the blast. Better to just eat the AOO. Can I retcon the cast defensively check and just forget it, Frosty?
@Blaze: Actually I think you have to do neither of those options... I'm fairly sure that you can cast your spell and then 5ft. step so you'd be able to avoid any AoO attempt.
@Freyja: I don't think we have another potion. I already used the one Astrid had.
Regarding difficultly, I must confess I had a bit of an oh shit moment when I realized that this is almost certainly at least a CR 5 encounter, which is higher than 1st level, 5 Man Woman party should be fighting. However, I think we are actually doing quite well all things considered. Blocking the hall way, so that the zombies could only fight us 1-2 at a time was a really good move. It took advantage of the fact that most of us have options other than melee (even if they are not our preferred options), whereas the zombies can literally only melee attack. That tipped the action economy back in our favor and mitigated a lot damage. Also, Arvanya smashing out a window was great move. That lets her target the caster, while still making herself a difficult target.
That being said, @Frosty, Aiming for realism is good and all, but its pretty hard to run a game when all your PCs are dead... ;p So, maybe keep an eye out for not letting encounters spiral out of control...unless we are being totally stupid, lol.
@Freyja: I don't think we have another potion. I already used the one Astrid had.
Regarding difficultly, I must confess I had a bit of an oh s@@& moment when I realized that this is almost certainly at least a CR 5 encounter, which is higher than 1st level, 5
ManWoman party should be fighting. However, I think we are actually doing quite well all things considered. Blocking the hall way, so that the zombies could only fight us 1-2 at a time was a really good move. It took advantage of the fact that most of us have options other than melee (even if they are not our preferred options), whereas the zombies can literally only melee attack. That tipped the action economy back in our favor and mitigated a lot damage. Also, Arvanya smashing out a window was great move. That lets her target the caster, while still making herself a difficult target.That being said, @Frosty, Aiming for realism is good and all, but its pretty hard to run a game when all your PCs are dead... ;p So, maybe keep an eye out for not letting encounters spiral out of control...unless we are being totally stupid, lol.
Oh, I'm aware about that... in this case, I'm running this encounter strictly as the book describes it.
I think you are doing great, despite some real 'bad luck' moments (like when Freyja got down with two lucky attacks).
Yeah, this spot is supposed to be pretty dicey. We just barely pulled through ourselves. Though now we mostly remember it as the time that Kit rolled a 1 on Acrobatics and tripped while trying to jump off the stairs to the ground floor. XD
So...What kind of action to crawl out that window I smashed? ;)
@Blaze: Actually I think you have to do neither of those options... I'm fairly sure that you can cast your spell and then 5ft. step so you'd be able to avoid any AoO attempt.
Sounds good! I used to do colorsprays like that in my kingmaker campaign, but I couldn't find the specific rule for it, so I thought that might have been a house-ruled thing.
Regarding the difficulty of the encounter, it seems a little tough when compared to most other lvl 1 combats in APs I have experienced, but again, I think it's being made worse by our lack of healing options. A level 1 cleric could walk through this place like he owned the joint, felling undead and healing comrades with his channels left and right.
The only thing that really strikes me as odd is a lack of healing potions on our fallen enemies. In PFS, it seems like every other fight drops healing potions, but we've almost leveled up and haven't found even one! That is different from my usual experience. Maybe there is a cache of healing that we missed somewhere in the house? We'll just have to survive long enough to see!
Ok, Tactics Time! Blaze is sort of taking up the play area with her tiefling tail. Do you guys want to convert this from a one woman blockade into a 3-way.
I was thinking Blaze could Blast and then step north (to B) and then Freyja could step to F and attack and Astrid could move to A. Then we might actually be able to kill these things before H out there can heal them again. We should still prevent them from charging us and control how many get in at a time from those spots.
@Arvanya: I believe it is part of your regular move action, but it takes 2 squares to do so!
@Blaze: Now that you mentioned, read THIS post again... perhaps the way I presented it made you overlook a few chests details.
Ohhh! I did make a boo-boo there, didn't I? I think I remember we were exploring because we hadn't found any keys yet and no one has Disable Device, and then they sort of slipped my mind. Thanks for that!
Oh, and joy! I finally found a thread that answered the questions we had about AOO's and ranged kinetic blasts vs. area effect blasts. And it has a designer quote and breaks it down for every possibility at the end. Hurrah! ^_^ Click here for link of win!
Totally unsure why now, but I could share that I read 2 CLW potions earlier.
I am unsure who was hit by the negative channel.
The zombies were hit by it--he used to heal undead. The prickling on your neck was just flavor text :). I think.
I guess so, unless I misunderstood:
Arvanya is able to get a clear shot at the spellcaster and is even luckier by not hitting the fake image. Meanwhile Evelina runs to the back door but finds it barred. Blaze prepares her flames before stepping forward and bathing all zombies in her flames. Freyja restarts her song and, finally, Astrid is freed from the wicked spell that held her in place.
@Blaze - I'm always game for a three-way. ;) The plan seems sound; I've stepped in and gotten my longspear into play, so hopefully that'll help keep them at bay, especially if Freyja can come in and finish the job of plugging up the gap. If she can't/doesn't, at least they have to eat an attack of opportunity to walk between us.
@Evelina - Sometimes huge encounters like this do happen in APs; I'm running Hell's Rebels for my IRL group, and today they went up against five zombies, six monks, and a cleric simultaneously. (And survived, despite blundering into the place an entire level before they were supposed to completely by accident. A well-placed and stupidly lucky charm person truly saved their rears.) Choosing where you make your stands does make a huge difference - I learned the stopping-up-the-passageway trick perforce from the opening bits of Rise of the Runelords, so I'm used to looking for that sort of thing by now. :)
I just never need to be gone again. I have had the hardest time getting back into the action and figuring out what is going on. And the more times I re-read the posts the more confused I get. Sigh. Sorry.
Since there was no second potion and Astrid was not down should I re-post that action?
Oh, and I am going to be gone again Friday through Sunday. I'll try to pose some. I'll have my laptop and internet in the evenings.
I just never need to be gone again. I have had the hardest time getting back into the action and figuring out what is going on. And the more times I re-read the posts the more confused I get. Sigh. Sorry.
Since there was no second potion and Astrid was not down should I re-post that action?
Oh, and I am going to be gone again Friday through Sunday. I'll try to pose some. I'll have my laptop and internet in the evenings.
Sure, go ahead and repost it!