GM Rednal's Northlands Saga Complete (Inactive)

Game Master Rednal

I should probably note that there are no full-caster slots currently available for the party. (This game only has one of those, since magic is legitimately rare in the North. Even within the group, the idea is for full-power magic to feel rare and limited.) Sonya will need to have another casting class - fortunately, there are lots of options. ^^

As she is the apprentice to a wise woman, that is the core of the character. Not sure how another class would alter that at all. She'd still be a healer using potions, herbs, and what-not.

Doesn't the choice of magic and tradition matter more in this case anyways? For example, as she has to mix potions and herbs to create an effect rather than blasting vulgar spells by shouting and flailing arms around.

I don't think there is anything that wouldn't pretty much contradict the core of the character (which was why I built her out of incanter in the first place, to avoid a bunch of contradictory non-sense as incanter was the most neutral on that front).

If that makes her unsuitable, then oh well. I'd like to think though, that sticking with the right talent choices and her tradition would more than fill the theme of the game at least.

Edit; If I change that, I might as well just make a brand new character, and I lack inspiration for that at the moment.

A good chunk of it is flavor - top-level magic is legitimately rare, and I want it to feel that way. A smaller part is power, since I'm intentionally trying to limit the availability of magic as a solution for problems. (This really IS rather unusual for my games, but hey, that's the setting. XD)

A third part is fairness. "One full caster slot" has been the rule for this game from the very beginning, and I try to avoid changing those sorts of rules mid-game. (Otherwise, previous applicants wouldn't have had the same opportunities, y'know? "I denied you earlier because I didn't have any full caster slots, but I accepted this other person because that rule changed" would be a really awkward conversation to have.)

As the apprentice to a Wise Woman, though, the Hedgewitch class would be an excellent choice. The Herbology tradition, in particular, seems like it would fit your theme rather well.

In general, Wise Women often use the Divination, Enhancement, Fate, Illusion, Life, Nature, Protection, and/or Weather spheres. A few of their ranks have Alteration (usually shifting themselves into animal forms, a la druids, and pretty much never into hodge-podge battle forms), Destruction (often nature-themed, like ice blasts or tangling vines), or War (to support warriors). They mostly avoid 'arcane' stuff like Creation and Telekinesis, and rarely use curses/debuffs like the Death sphere (usually only if someone really offended them, such as by abusing the traditions of hospitality).

Lore wise, they're pretty heavy on the "mysterious" side of things - they're known and somewhat feared for their powers, but there's a lot of emphasis on the "wise" bit. They travel as they will, are generally welcome anywhere they wish to stay, and provide counseling and guidance to others. Most don't flaunt their power, though, and certainly don't bother to use cantrips for every little chore. Thus, most people in the North have no idea what the extent of their powers are - and they know better than to ask.

I understand the one slot for full caster thing, I had forgotten about it, but I wanted you know why I wasn't just swapping out for less than full caster.

The hedgewitch had wonderful flavor, but I didn't really like it's implementation.

What you have for their powers is basically what I was thinking with only minor deviation (such as making tasty food, never failing to have a fire going when needed, always seeming to have the tools she needs on hand, etc. I wasn't planning on illusions though, as I figured that for more arcane magic, but hey).

I even took the revitalize talent to make healing non-instant as I felt that fit the theme better.

@Sonya - A few ideas that could replace Incanter, if you don't like the Hedgewitch:

- Geomancer Elementalist, for a druidic focus on the Nature Sphere
- Geosurveyor Ranger, on the Nature Sphere as well
- Folk Healer Ranger, focused on healing and the Life Sphere, has a few nifty healing tricks
- Essentialist Alchemist, Life Sphere as well, trades bombs for enhancement concoctions
- Snake Oil Salesman Rogue, focused on Enhancement, can create pills and oils with Enhancement talents
The last two could combine well with the Medicinal drawback.

Alternatively, a Sphere Bard or a Sphere Warpriest of Frigg (associated to nature, knowledge, and divination), Freyja (associated to fertility and seiðr magic), Iðunn (goddess of youth and rejuvenation) or Gerðr (goddess of winter giving way to spring and the Northern Lights) could work.
[note: I'm picking deities from the Norse pantheon, possibly not all of them are present in the setting]

Baldr/Balder, Bragr/Bragi, Donar/Thor, Frigg/Frigga, Loptr/Loki, Tiwaz/Tyr, Wotan/Odin of the Aesir are present, as are Freyja/Freya, Freyr/Frey, Njördr/Njor, the Norns, and Rán as Vanir.

That said, religion in the North tends to be fairly casual - they don't really have organized churches, and in any case regard the gods as part of their extended family, rather than distant superiors. There really isn't enough of a church to support Warpriests (or Inquisitors - most people in the region would be HIGHLY offended by someone judging their faith).

For that matter, even Paladins are rare. There are, like, five Paladins of Tiwaz. And that's it for the entire region. XD

Sorry for the silence I have been hammered at work with the short work week and all.

Anyway I decided on a concept Gunslinger (Bolt Ace) and Investigator (Sleuth) using this Image as inspiration. Going with a crossbow build because no one ever does an Sleuth loses extracts which (I think) is a better fit for this style of campaign.

I should have her name, backstory and crunch by Saturday evening.

Dotting for interest. Any cutoff time in mind yet for this recruitment?

Not yet - I'm hoping to have at least a few entries to choose from. Also, it's a holiday right now, and lots of people are busy - it seems fairer to give some extra time.

I've long wanted to build an archer character; given the current players' desire for more ranged capability it seems like a good time to satisfy that itch.

I have some experience with SoP and I've done some reading in SoM but haven't played with it yet. I've also never played a gestalt character. Any advice there? Is it too overboard to go conscript//fighter and have oodles of combat feats?

The blacksmith caught my eye but it definitely doesn't seem built for range. I noticed a talent in the Sniper sphere, though, that allows ranged sunders so I wonder if that's workable.

I need to look over SoP again, too. A SoM class gestalted with Armorist or Mageknight might be pretty cool.

A good rule of thumb in gestalt is that your two classes should be focused on different roles. You don't need - and, indeed, shouldn't have - two classes that are focused on murdering enemies. A Conscript/Fighter probably is too much, since they are largely covering the same ground. The whole point of gestalt is to allow a small number of characters to successfully fulfill more roles in a game, NOT to make abnormally powerful combatants.

In other words, if your concept involves using two classes to make a character that's explicitly more powerful than a character could normally be, that's not appropriate for this game. Besides, if you get a ton of combat feats, it's not long before you run out of stuff that helps your style and have to start picking up things that really make no difference.

Instead, it would be better to go for something like having a ranged damage dealer through your Conscript class, then perhaps some sort of buffing or utility on the second class. Mundane healing - plant-based, not alchemy, because true alchemy isn't a thing in this region - would also work. ^^

It may help to imagine the two classes as being different parts of your character's life. For example, let's say you have a Witch. They're a little reclusive when they're alone, talk to a strange patron, and know a lot about hexing people for bad luck. However, they also have training as a Bard and regularly perform in local taverns and the like. Maybe that's a cover to throw people off from being a Witch, or maybe they just like singing and being around people when they're not studying their witchcraft. Either way, it's a very separate set of talents, and they're generally not doing both things at the same time.

(Even when they are, like by hexing a foe and then supporting allies with a bardic performance, none of their powers are particularly stronger than what a party could normally have.)

Dotting... I'll see if inspiration takes me.

A good rule of thumb in gestalt ....

Thanks for the advice!

From the looks of things, neither the Scholar nor the Technician from SoM would fit the game--too many science-y things. I like the Scholar's aptitude with the heal skill, but the alchemy stuff seems too much. Would the formulae package of the Alchemy sphere with the Salve talent only be appropriate, though?

Yeah, I think Formulae+Salve will be fine. ^^ Poultices are reasonably low-tech, after all, and there's a long tradition of herbal healing in the North. It's a nice balance between "the healing the party needs" and "not having too much magic" anyway.

Is this still recruiting?

Yup, or rather re-recruiting.

Seems there's interesting in an alchemist again, so I'll leave my fey-taught alchemist aside for now. What to play though? I like the idea of an Iron Chef Blacksmith a lot, but a Sentinal catching things in his Gauntlet(with Gauntlet training) is pretty cool too.

Extremely interested! I have been thinking about running a campaign, which would feature the first Vikings who landed in Ireland, so this is right down my alley! In fact, I am presently running a campaign that takes place in Ireland a couple of hundred years later, in the 12th century, right before the English invasion...

When does recruitment end?

Recruitment ends... whenever I set a date for it. Probably not for at LEAST a week, though - I'm being extra generous with time, given the current holiday madness. XD

I'll try to submit something, if my (insane) schedule next week allows it!

Ugh, I have the idea but actually making it has hit a writer's block.

I'm playing around with a few ideas, Spheres of Might seems much more accessible than I had thought it would be. My current idea is probably to go for a Blacksmith and specializing in the Sniper sphere along with some of the useful bits of the Barrage sphere. I might try to balance him some as a switch-hitter and have him sundering in melee (since there are no ranged sunder options outside of taking three levels of Archer Fighter).

I'm trying to decide on what class I should blend this with. I'm familiar with your preferences regarding gestalt characters opening up options rather than supercharging the ones they already have.

Phantom Thief Rogue might be a sound choice, providing a remarkable skill monkey out of the gate.

If you're open to other third party materials DSP's Malefex is cool and flavorful. Some skill versatility and a nice package of debuffs to throw around along with greater skill access.

Alternatively, if you're good with Scholar, I might put together some sort of traveling alchemist/blacksmith with a heritage from lands far to the south. In the real world, the Norse regularly traded with various nations in and around the Middle East. It would not be that much of a stretch to imagine someone coming up, looking to make a fortune with foreign medicines and metallurgy but end up settling down to start a family. I would be focusing on the Equipment, healing from Alchemy, and more useful bits of the Scout Spheres with that side of the gestalt.

Spheres has always been pretty accessible. Takes a little reading to understand the system, but once you've got the basics, it's quite intuitive.

(Also, the wiki is adding errata from the updated book right now - so some things may be changed soon.)

We already have a Phantom Thief Rogue, so I'm going to... strongly encourage something else.

Any more exotic concepts work much, MUCH better if you're an outlander and came from an area with additional ideas. XD I can provide a few very distant locations.

Some would certainly be appreciated. I always enjoy playing outlanders in games that have a specific cultural theme to them.

For the record, I'll probably be building an intimidating Viking Fighter / Rake Rogue – a definitely role play oriented character with a bit of kick!

As far as you know, is anyone going in this direction already?

@Alias ad Tempus: That would be the current player, Sigurd Koshchey, who is already a Fighter/Rogue. I will not be accepting another character with either of those two classes. (Gestalt is to help allow for diversity in roles, after all. XD Stacking classes defeats the purpose.)

@Han Del: Alas, the full campaign setting isn't out yet, so the "world" is a bit vague still. XD But two popular outlander destinations include Bard's Gate (a major, highly influential trade city) and Castorhage (a slowly-expanding city state/empire with a horror feel - if your character's from there, they probably fled and want to leave it all behind). Those are waaaaaay distant, though. A closer trading partner is the Barony of Monrovia (which is heavily defended against Northlander raids, so they find it easier to trade and be friends). Monrovia has more of a middle ages Europe sort of feel - think knightly England.

Dotting. I'm looking at a ranger (nature's blade spheres of might archetype)/hedge witch (triple goddess archetype, focusing on fate, with a connection to the Norns).

She'd be a switch hitter/buffer/debuffer. She should be a competent archer that can close to range when needed.

Questions:

1) How would the scout ability from SoM interact with the Spiritualist hedge witch's tradition secret? I've spoilered the text of each ability below for your perusal. Basically, my question is: can the PC roll twice for perception checks to scout weaknesses? I ask because it will affect feat and skill choice.

What about rolling a perception check and a knowledge check (or two, with the spiritualist ability) to discern weakness?

2) How easy/difficult is crafting in this campaign? With a focus on limited wealth, is it not worth taking crafting options, as there's not enough gold to make it worth it? I'm weighing spending some feats on the herbalism hedgewitch tradition stuff, but the first feat (Amateur Herbalist) would essentially be a dead feat (it gives brew potion and poison use), so I'll probably go another route if crafting isn't a viable choice.

Thank you!

1) The Spiritualism tradition benefit only works when you make a Knowledge check. The Scout ability, as a Perception check, does not work with it.

2) It's possible to craft mundane goods, but wealth is very limited, and spending a feat probably isn't worth it. As compensation, you do get Automatic Bonus Progression (at +2 levels because of the low magic items). Put frankly, heroes have heroic power. XD

Okies, thanks, GM Rednal!

How do you feel about repurposing the Forgemaster Cleric archetype? It was meant for dwarves, but it could work?

...or have you got your bases covered insofar as full casters are concerned? If so, and/or if you're not a fan of the Forgemaster, I may go for a Skald Berzerker type. That being said, given how many people seem to have expressed an interest, I am guessing that there are a few of those going around?!

Much Time Passes...

So, due to someone else vanishing... seems like we need a new player here!

The existing players are a Warpriest/Incanter and a Fighter/Rogue. One player would like to see someone with some ranged capability. So... any interest? XD The party is currently Level 4, by the way. Spheres of Might is allowed.

Just saw this. Duh.

The base is covered as far as full casters go. ^^ Mid/6th is the highest that will be accepted... although it's not mandatory for you to be a caster at all, and rather than trying to force an idea to fit a certain level of magic, I think it's better to try and work on a thematically appropriate concept and just go from there.

When it comes to ranged weapons, are some more out of place for Northlanders? I'm mainly concerned about bow vs crossbow vs sling.

The area has up to composite longbows, but does not have crossbows (too advanced). Slings are ultra-low-tech, and so easily available. ^^

Aye...I figured people would check the current cast before starting their creative process, so did not speak up before - ^_^

Rednal cleared that up, but just to add to what he said: With Sphere of Might out, I'll adopt the Coiled Blade Fighter Archetype.
So I am/will be a Fighter(Coiled Blade)/Rogue(Phantom Thief) - also, I am dual-wielding Throwing Axes. Mostly going to be in Melee, but splitting a skull at close range when needed.
So...range is severely limited. Eydis has a spear, but that's also hardly better. Which is why I mentioned that I would like to see someone at least competent with ranged weaponry as a primary mode of attack.

In Roksper's defense I do get it back every time I throw it, but yes. Range is something we're limited on.

Adding a writing sample to give a bit more insight into how Blommhilde may look like. She'll complain a lot about what she's got to do, but always do her duty. Tell me if there's any part of her you'd like me to explain better.

I'm interested in having an entirely non-magical character, but that's not so straightforward a task in a gestalt game where Fighter and Rogue are both off the table.

I did notice that SoM allows Low- (like Ranger or Paladin) and Mid-Casters (like Inquisitor or Hunter) to trade their spellcasting for a combat training progression. How do you feel about having such a progression from both sides of the gestalt? What I'd like to do is Conscript//Hunter with the Hunter's spellcasting traded away. The Conscript is my ranged damage dealer side, while the Hunter is where I want to focus on his nature/survival skills (Athletics sphere, maybe some Beastmastery, probably some Scout).

Conscript doesn't require (or allow) you to trade anything away for progression. XD Going for a spell-less Hunter is definitely possible, though, so that seems like a reasonably workable combination.

Conscript doesn't require (or allow) you to trade anything away for progression. XD Going for a spell-less Hunter is definitely possible, though, so that seems like a reasonably workable combination.

Oh! I see "such a progression" wasn't very clear. I was worried that having two classes with any kind of combat training progression (not just one traded for) might be making the same kind of error as the Conscript//Fighter we discussed earlier, which had so many combat feats making it too focused on battle from both sides. My Conscript//Hunter idea doesn't seem quite as disparate as the Bard//Witch example you gave, so I wanted to make sure I wasn't going too far out of bounds.

As a loose rule, try to go for two classes with seperate BAB - so one full BAB and one Half or 3/4 BAB. The Full BAB will usually be your fighting side, and the other half utility - healing, skills, maybe some buffs or de-buffing.

Of course, some things don't mesh. A Barbarian with full Sneak Attack can get a little dicey in terms of damage output, for example.

One of the nice parts about combat training is that there's only so much "power" you can get. There are pretty hard caps on how many 'extras' you can apply to any extra combat option, and most stuff beyond that is utility and helpfulness, especially if you're not diving too deeply into any area. ^^

As for being out of bounds, I have this lovely little chart that I use. (Green is ideal, blue is max, anywhere beyond blue is offering severely diminished returns, math-wise, and probably isn't the best use of your resources.)

In your sheet, what is EDV, and why does lvl 1 have two numbers for EDV (7, 5) but only one number at level 2 (10)?

The blog post linked on the chart explains in more detail, but EDV stands for "Estimated Damage Value" - basically, your damage result when you have average rolls, counting constant bonuses like ability scores, Power Attack, and so on. I'm not sure why commas were used instead of periods, but that's "7.5".

The principle on the chart is that a character is viable if they can do 1/4 of a same-CR enemy's HP in damage, and strong if they can do 1/2 the foe's HP. In general, an adventuring party should be able to take out a same-CR foe in one round of actions. So a standard four-person group, each taking off 1/4th the foe's HP, meets that criteria. Or maybe you have one strong warrior type doing half the foe's HP in damage, and two people doing less damage, and a fourth who does no damage at all. It still works out to the right amount of power.

As for why commas got used...Hey, as far as international standards are concerned, at least the US is not alone with periods-

So here's a rough, short backstory for Logi the White:

Logi the White is a truly tragic hero who is tormented by his steadfast dedication to a family that wants little to do with him. Born with white hair, pale skin, and pink eyes, Logi was called a monster at birth, and shunned by all, even his father. Only his mother showed him some modicum of affection – and even her love was more dutiful than sincere. The child of great heroes, he grew up ashamed and full of self-hate. The other children bullied him mercilessly, and never did his parents intervene to help. His plight was proof that great warriors can make for cruel parents.

As an adolescent, he grew to tower over the other children. They couldn’t beat him anymore, so they assuaged their cruelty by daring him to perform ever more dangerous feats. Finding in this abuse a form of attention that he welcomed, he agreed always, no matter the risk, no matter the danger. Anything to gain approval.

When he wasn’t suffering the abuses of villagers and his own family, Logi was generally out in the rocky hills where he found peace from the fury that was building inside of him.

Logi appears shy, resigned, and stoic, but he is in fact an honest, altruistic, and warm man. With time, he has come to have some understanding of his role, and sadly considers himself expendable. He is dual natured: his heart is torn between the anger that rages inside him, and his profound desire to find peace and be at one with nature.

I am envisioning an Invulnerable Primal Hunter Barbarian + Guide Ranger who fights with a bow, among other weapons. But I am not sure if you allow a Gestalt combination of two Full BAB classes?

If the character works, in light of the existing characters and the campaign, I will endeavour to flesh out the backstory a bit, fill in the blanks, and of course submit a complete build!

In general, it's usually more effective to do one full BAB and one class that's something else. Having two classes both focused on improving weapon damage is exactly what you should avoid - but if the class has lots of non-combat abilities, it's usually workable.

(Basically, you wouldn't want to do Barbarian rage for added power AND use Ranger options to stack damage.)

So I could do hunter instead of ranger? Same flavour...

You could do Hunter instead, yes.

So Hunter it is! As for the backstory and choice of traits/drawbacks, works for you? Fits with the story? Should the character be from anywhere specific?