Possibly, are you tired of the current senerio, seems we are just getting started in it?
I'm working on my own campaign idea and I don't want to commit to any more PBP games right now. I like the idea, though.
K'Don, since PbP generally doesn't take up a lot of time each day to do, many people are playing in up to 5-6 PbP games at any given time. Also, some GM's are running more than one game at a time (like Marko, for example). So this Steampunk MIB would be in *addition* to the Keltica game.
It's a fun idea, but between the SW rules and all the pbps I'm already in, I think I'll pass.
Thanks for the clearification
#PERSUASION
The biggest problem in understanding Persuasion is the first line of the description : “Persuasion is the ability to convince others to do what you want them to do.”
So I think it’s easy to think that it’s "I ask them to do *this* and roll Persuasion, and if I'm successful then they WILL do it", but it isn’t. The rest of the description talks about the “attitude” of the character being persuaded (Hostile/Uncooperative/Neutral/Friendly/Helpful), and what they will or *will not* do given that attitude.
I have spent a lot of time reading the SW forums, and talking to the more experienced GM’s and players, and here’s the approach I’m going to take :
1. Any NPC has an attitude based on their job/task/goals, how loyal/committed they are to that job/task/goal (for whatever reasons), and what's being asked of them by the player.
Ex : a loyal secretary would be Hostile to letting you see the boss without an appointment, but a secretary who hates her dishonest boss would be Friendly to the idea.
Ex : a prison guard is Hostile to letting you escape. He's Uncooperative about letting you sneak extra food out of the kitchen. He's Neutral about your overdue book from the prison library. He's Friendly in talking about football. He's Helpful in getting you a bible since he's religious himself.
Ex : an experienced robber under orders to rob *you* (by a boss he fears) would be Hostile to “don’t rob us” but maybe Uncooperative or even Neutral to “don’t kill us”. A young, first-time, nervous mugger might even be Neutral to “don’t rob us”.
2. Then the Persuasion roll tells the GM how much to bump up (or down) their attitude. As per the RAW, that's all it can do.
3. At that point, given that current attitude, the GM decides where the request falls in the spectrum of "will gladly do", "might do with incentive", and "will never do". The RAW gives guidelines for that, too (especially how much “incentive” might be required for each attitude).
The important thing to realize is that there are things that even the most Friendly person will never do - kill someone for you, knowingly give away their life's savings, etc. Even a merchant who's been charmed by a +6 Charisma PC isn't going to give away his goods, and even a vengeful secretary wouldn't (well, ok, might not) give a total stranger access to the company's most secret records. And the farther down the attitude list you go, the more things they're NOT going to do for you. Even a Neutral guard isn't going to let you escape (altho the GM might decide for this guard that falls into the "might do with incentive" category because he’s open to bribes).
So if a PC with +6 Charisma rolls 3 Raises on their Persuasion to ask the guard to please open the cell door and let them go, the response is still "yeah buddy, in your dreams".
A judge with solid evidence in front of them is Hostile to letting the perp off scot-free, and even making him Neutral (the best a Persuasion roll could do) isn’t going to make him ignore the law.
And the "might do with incentive" realm allows for a little simple roleplaying without multiple rolls, where the NPC indicates that they might be more co-operative if they were paid a little coin, and then the players can decide what they want to do...
A couple of comments :
-I'm not *changing* anything about the rules, I'm filling them in with guidelines that make sense to me, and are consistent with what I've seen on the SW forum.
-The players don't *have* to understand or use ANY of the above, I'm just explaining what my thought processes will be, so you can understand when a high Persuasion roll might not have any effect.
Any thoughts from anyone on this approach?
I'm fine with all this.
The main thing that may come up for me is whether or not my character can tell what the starting attitude is of a particular NPC toward a particular request. Obviously if we are encountering a mugger, we can't know that, so perhaps the best we can do is try to tell from his behavior and conversation (which is what role playing is for). But in a case like our guards, we haven't had a chance to role play any interactions with them. So is there a way (using dice rather than role playing) for us to determine the starting attitude, assuming we've interacted with an NPC before?
In the current situation, we haven't really been able to role play anything except the one meeting with Gerba, so it's hard for us players to do anything except the few things we've mentioned: to try to locate a way to pick the locks or to influence the guards to change their attitude toward us. Once we get to a specific situation that we can interact with the setting, NPCs, etc. it's hard to know what else to try.
I'm okay with it taking a it of back and forth to get to that point, but until we do, we're mostly just treading water waiting for that specific situation to be described.
My only other comment on persuasion skill is that like most skills it may have other uses besides the rules as written description. So maybe it also covers being able to lie convincingly or to act as if you are hurt or to make a well reasoned argument to a judge. In each case the GM of course decides what the possible outcomes are based on the successes or opposed rolls, but no need to limit the skill only to changing attitudes.
Also, in some dramatic situations, certain characters have amazing abilities to change attitudes to their own advantage: think of Eddie Murphy's character in Beverly Hills Cop who can turn into just about any character he wants in a blink of an eye and get past security guards or sweet talk hard edged police chiefs and trained detectives into doing things they wouldn't normally do. In game terms, such a character would have a high charisma and would be making these persuasion rolls and pulling off surprising changes in attitude. He can't use it to just go in and persuade the bad guy to turn himself in, but he does get his way most of the time with lesser goons and characters.
So if a player invests two edges in getting to the +4 charisma, it should give him some significant advantage in enough situations to make it worth the investment, roughly the equivalent of a fighter investing two edges in making him a kick-ass fighter. He can't automatically win every fight, but when push comes to shove, he's very good and usually accomplishes what he attempts using those edges.
Get well soon, ZF!
Keeping you in my thoughts. Hope you're feeling better soon!
Wow... sorry to hear. Get better soonest!
Still not feeling great, but I just wanted to point out to Arabella that when you roll Persuasion by itself (vs. TN=4), the only thing you can do is "change attitudes". And there's a cap on that of 2 improvements, so a +2, +4, or even +6 Charisma isn't going to do *that* much harm.
Regarding whether you can tell the starting attitude - I would imagine not exactly, but you can make a reasonable assumption given the circumstances. I'm curious, why would it even matter? Just make the request and roll the Persuasion.
But when Persuasion is used to mis-represent yourself (lying, tricking, acting in a way you're not really feeling, etc.), then Persuasion becomes opposed by the target's Notice, and opposed rolls are statistically *much* harder to pull off.
And regarding having an effect in game-play, you were able to get more food from the guards, dropping your fatigue penalty from -2 to -1, which *is* a big deal...
ALL - is everyone aware that whenever you roll Persuasion to change attitude, you WILL either improve their attitude, or worsen it? So there's always a risk when using it...
Before everyone gets excited, this is WindDancer's player "taking over" Connor. The link is cute, especially if you're a RWBY fan.
Yeah, sorry, I was just verifying the alias is set up properly. And booping Discussion seemed a reasonable analog to dotting Gameplay. :o)
As for intent, I'm hoping "real Connor" can, and will, rejoin us eventually. But having the GM bot the PC is an extra burden he doesn't need, and right now Connor is WindDancer's main communications path. So I figured my relieving the GM of handling Connor made the most sense, at least for now.
I'll try to stay true to YR's vision for Connor (as I understand it) as best I can.
Sounds cool.
-Posted with Wayfinder
About the DM thing where I let you figure out how to get in the castle. I preferred to let you direct the flow of the game rather than force you to "step here, push that button, stand on your head then sneeze and the door will open style". That was all.
Whereas I was very much a "step here, push that button, stand on your head then sneeze and the door will open" kind of GM. It was all about working the puzzles. (Remember the Escher dungeon, guys, or the secret information you actually had to bring out on the physical prop scroll?)
This is why K'Don's player was a far better GM than I. It didn't feel like you were doing the daily crossword puzzle when you played in his games.
I was just so surprised when I found out you didn't have *any* plan, I thought it was brilliant!
Blushing furiously gee thanks guys.
Catching up now, guys. Super busy weekend.
-Posted with Wayfinder
Can you (ZF) remind us of the time of year. I could look through the posts, but that covers a lot of pages now. I think it was spring approaching summer but not quite sure. I know it wasn't winter. It might affect our planning assuming we can get out, what kind of weather we may be facing.
Uh, is Conner able to communicate with WD or is he to fuzzy headed. If he can't communicate he couldn't relay his story. Just a point of order.
Just the sort of thing I'd asked for clarification on (via email). But the clock was ticking and, since the GM had earlier made reference to passing along what happened and instructed me to "wing it," I invoked player fiat. :o) I decided that since the intensity of the link's coming mostly from WindDancer's side (as in, Connor's never had telepathy with anyone else), they can still communicate.
Plus the two of them were in physical contact ("zero distance") at the time. I did ask about reduced range and so on. I'm sure ZF will get back to me before that sort of thing becomes critical. Having been ill for a while slowed him down a lot, I'm sure.
Yes, it is late spring/early summer by this point.
Connor and WD can still communicate, but at about half the distance that they used to, so it's reasonable to assume that whatever is inhibiting Powers is inhibiting the connection.
And, MW are my "short days" now, until further notice. So very likely little if any posting those days.
Can you clearify what you mean by short days?
Days that due to my work schedule don't allow me a lot of time to write long posts.
For what it's worth, Tuesdays and Thursdays may be days I don't post or don't post more than a quick dice roll or comment. I'm working what amounts to a double shift, with some time in the afternoon only and by night, I'm pretty burned out.
To expand on the comments in the game thread, I'm trying to play Connor the way YR had intended: as a young boy who doesn't yet have control or understanding of his powers. When we're in an appropriate situation you can count on his abilities to manifest themselves; using them strategically is another matter.
We've mostly already seen what he can do. I hinted at telepathy/mind reading (that was kind of obvious anyway because of the WindDancer thing). That's the one other thing I see on his sheet.
As for WindDancer, you've mostly seen what she can do, too. Unless the GM rules that "stone" equals "earth" her only advantage for movement inside the facility is being small enough to slip through holes and gaps that people can't. She is "chameleonesque" in that she has adaptive coloration. Whether that might confer any stealth benefits would be up to the GM, but I'm not expecting any (it was only intended for flavor).
Apologies for the lack of post for the last few days, I've been "under the weather" - not sick, but bone-tired, zero stamina, and "brain fog". Hopefully tomorrow...
I had every intention of at least trying to make some posts today...then I passed a kidney stone last night. 2.5 hours of non-stop-screaming-at-the-top-of-your-voice red-hot-pointy-dagger-in-your-side fun. Didn't get back from the ER and to sleep until 3 AM, and only slept till 7 AM.
IF I can get a serious nap well before I have to go to work, I'll give it a try. Otherwise, probably Thursday.
Holy ouch! Don't stress, we'll be here when you're ready to come back. I hope you recover quickly!
Very sorry to hear about that. Hope your feeling better soon. Take what ever time you need to feel better.
K'Don, I'm moving incapacitation/no killing blow over to here, since it's complicated.
The Orcs will drop as soon as you inflict *one* Wound on them. That wound is assumed to be lethal (and technically they'd get a roll to stay alive), unless you declare you're using "non-lethal" attacks, in which case they'd be knocked unconscious for so many hours.
Since they drop on the first Wound, you'd have to make *all* your attacks "non-lethal", and unless you have a weapon that's *meant* to deal non-lethal damage (staff, blackjack, etc.), you'd be at -1 for using your greatsword in a non-lethal way.
Make sense?
This is kinda freaky, posting for two PCs at once. It's gonna take some getting used to.
I *SO* want to get Connor and WindDancer into an argument now! :)
OK I understand. So any blunt object can be used at normal roll, no penalties? If so I'll opt for the non lethal blow.
Basically, yes.
I think I would be ulta cool to have this place. I think we could carve a bit of this contanent as OUR Empire. Running a place like this would be a new kind of adventure for me. Besides if we take the "castle" we get the flying machine and who know how many other cool, geeky, and wierd pieces of scientific hardware.
I should point out that as a player in situations like this, I'm inclined to contribute to analysis paralysis, so at this point, if everyone else is satisfied with the planning and wants to take action, I'll go along.
Sorry gang, last week was unexpectedly brutal and I've recently been informed I have to attend a meeting at Innsbrook tomorrow. That's about three hours added to an already long day, so probably no posts tomorrow either. I'd hoped to catch up this weekend but no such luck.
GM, I went back through old posts but feeling some degree of time pressure (as in wanting to get something posted and failing) I couldn't find what I was seeking. I can't remember if you've described the floor of this place. Katana "helpfully" volunteered WindDancer to fight but, unless the floors are loose dirt or similar, her powers are useless indoors. And she only has ONE shot at a tail sting, so it's down to ripping eyelids off. Which is a risky proposition at best.
I can see the bottom floor being dirt, but we were taken "upstairs" so stone or wood or something makes more sense to me where we are now.
WindDancer will of course be happy to try to pilfer/carry whatever might help. If I play Connor true to the original vision the boy can only react to danger, so "from the back" probably won't be too productive. Anyway, I'd post to Gameplay but I want a clearer understanding of the environment first, lest I write something bogus.
Yeah, Katana isn't fully aware of WindDancer's and Connor's limitations (or at least, thinks Connor has more control than he does).
Still waiting to hear from Marko, and still deciding some things...
Hey, guys. I’m sad to say that I’ve had to do some reassessing in the past couple days, and the reality is that I am going to have even less time than I had before for PBP. And the bottom line is that I need to cut back. So effective immediately I have to stop playing this campaign.
You guys have been great. It has nothing to do with the quality of the RP. Honestly, I’ve loved playing this and reading your posts. And I wish you guys all the best of luck.
Again, I’m sorry it had to end this way. But some realities at my job and home life have basically come to a head, and this had to happen. Seriously, guys. Thanks a million.
You can pass me Marko if you want to. I've got the time to run both.
Maybe we will run into a machine that can combine 2 people into 1 new person with the traits of both.
Arabella can you make one of these?
K'Don, please see your email for more discussion on your taking over Marko. Thanks!
If Arabella's machine failed, you'd end up with K'Don's smarts and Marko's strength, instead of the other way around! :)
Just to be sure I'm clear on the plan, when signalled WindDancer is to retrieve the keys and give them to one of the prisoners?
And will someone be giving Connor a "go" signal, or is he just supposed to send the signal when all heck breaks loose?
Thanks!
Yes.
Katana's suggestion was that as soon as the group *hears* Arabella and her escorts coming, Connor was to shoot a message to WD, so that hopefully the fight in the mines would break out about the same time as the fight at your cell.
Nuts. Yesterday I checked the page at like 6 AM, then came back to it to make my long post and must not have refreshed it first (and when you preview or make a post, Paizo very thoughtfully shows you only your post, and nothing above it).
Maybe that's some bizarre Firefox behavior, but in general that's incorrect. Paizo most definitely does show prior posts in preview.
At least to me, and I don't think I get any special dispensation. :o)
Seriously, if the behavior you described is what you're seeing, you might want to try a different browser for game posts.
I didn't mean to say it didn't show them (as in, not there), but that when Paizo shows you your post, it puts it at the top of the screen, thus you can't see any posts above yours (especially if your post is long, which mine was).
Try it - create a post of at least 16-18 lines, and Preview it - do you see anything of the previous post? I don't.
Alright then, I plead guilty to misconstruing your intent.
My preview puts a "preview" directly under the last post.
Must be a different setting in your browser or perhaps you are using a different browser than I. When I preview posts, my post is at the bottom of the page with the previous posts viewable by scrolling up. I'm using Internet Explorer mostly.
I was looking back at the first post that introduced the dwarf and I discovered that she introduced herself as Gerba. In a later post, ZenFox referred to her as Gerba initially, but spelled it Gerta in the next paragraph. One of us must have begun using that spelling and it seems to have stuck. Not an issue, just a curious morphing caused by the mechanics of PBP.