DM-Salsa presents Curse of the Crimson Throne (Inactive)

Game Master AdamWarnock

Character Creation Rules:

-15 point Buy
-All Paizo Core (the hardcovers) sans Race Creation Rules. Anything other than core needs to be approved.
-Two Traits + one campaign trait from the player's guide or the Varisia: Birthplace of Legends splatbook.
-Average Gold
-Max HP at first

You will also need to provide a backstory and what your character does in a typical day. Also please provide the description of an NPC and two locations in Korvosa that your character has close ties to. It doesn't have to be detailed.

Post any questions you have here.

Dot! Now this means I have to decide what I actually want to play. Dammit.

Hehehehe. All according to plan. :)

Hey Salsa, any opinion on any of the half-formed character ideas I posted here? I'm kind of leaning towards the Unarmed Fighter or the Druid at the moment. Do you have any qualms with me dipping Monk for 2 levels?

EDIT: Arggh. I just noticed that Martial Artist doesn't mesh with Monk of Many Styles. The 20th level ability is hidden inside an earlier gained ability. Damn, I wanted to make a Chaotic Good brawler... >_<

I'm still working on my character, but I think I can do what I was planning. I wish I could afford hero lab, but I'm a student. Manual generation ftw.

OK, I've decided. Vi in Pathfinder is too cool to pass up. Plus I messed around with a vague feat progression and it looks super fun. I would absolutely love if you had mercy on me and allowed me to run a CG Fighter/Monk, but I'll deal with it if I have to be lawful. ;)

Mechanical progression would be Unarmed Fighter 1 / Monk of Many Styles 3 / Rest in Fighter. Feats include basically anything related to Tripping and Grappling and Ki Throwing, plus the Dragon Style and Snapping Turtle styles. Not going to do the hugest amount of damage, but I will control the battlefield pretty well.

Current character based thoughts... She's a rumbustious and outspoken ex-street rat who has little respect for the law of Korvosa and little patience for those who get on her nerves (see also: most native Korvosans). She was one of Lamm's Lambs and had a really rough childhood, and it causes her to lash out at people just trying to help her (she's extremely stubborn and self-reliant). She was extremely depressed and suicidal when she was left for dead by Lamm, but met someone (maybe one of the other PCs? or maybe just my NPC?) who helped her heal up and helped her develop some self-confidence. (Possibly too much self-confidence.) Now she's out for some vengeance on the a+*~$#@ who made her life a living misery for so long.

Lawful doesn't really fit for her at all, but if I can't get a hint of that GM niceness on the alignment restrictions, I'll add something about a devotion to some ideal/personal code and maybe add a little more respect for the law in there as well.

@Reginald: lol, I know that feel. I want Hero Lab but can't justify shelling out like $100+ for it and all the books I'd want. All my chars are always hand generated! Thank goodness for Archives of Nethys and d20pfsrd. :D

Herolab itself isn't so bad, its all the extra bits (has spent close to $150-$200 on it.)

I'm fine with having a CG Monk. It could be explained that you learned by watching and without the benefit of a master. I'm thinking about using the Injury/Strain rules as well. It's a lot better than the current system for that bit of realism. (With as many different weapons from western martial history as there are, it's a shame that most aren't represented.)

I've been reading through the Guide to Korvosa, so if you'd like more info, I can provide.

I'm fine with having a CG Monk.

Woot! Thanks a bunch!

I'll definitely come up with explanations for her class abilities that jive with the persona I'm building for her. Although Monk of Many Styles very much lends itself to a monk that is light on the spiritual aspects of the class anyway.

EDIT:

By the way, on weapons... have a look at the Kirthfinder house rules for weapons. It doesn't translate directly to Pathfinder without adjustment, but the base idea works. i.e. rather than having classes of weapons that are Simple, Martial, or Exotic, each weapon type can be used at a Simple, Martial, or Exotic level of proficiency (with increasing abilities for each rank). Each weapon type is also much more broad, i.e. a bastard sword also represents katanas and similar weapons, gauntlets also represent brass knuckles and cestuses, etc...

I like it a lot because it encourages use of weapons that are less optimal in the core rules, and also classes with fewer proficiencies aren't as limited in what they can use (i.e. every single poor/med BAB class using light x-bows). It also makes taking Martial or Exotic Weapon Proficiency not an absolute waste of a feat :)

Not something I recommend for a pure Pathfinder game because it definitely needs adjustment when used outside of the whole Kirthfinder ruleset. But it's fun to consider.

So:

Core Rulebook
Advanced Player's Guide
Advanced Race Guide (sans race creation)
Ultimate Combat
Ultimate Magic
Ultimate Equipment

I think that's all of the books you're allowing, right? I believe you mentioned that you didn't want to deal with Summoners, but are there any other specific things from the books above that you don't want in the game?

Summoners, gunslingers, guns, and any gun related feats.

Other than that, it's fair game. I'll also allow stuff form the Pathfinder splatbooks.

Thanks!

(This is Olofire, btw. Or rather, Olofire is me).

+1 for injury/strain! Our Rappun Athuk campaign is the first time I've ever played in a game with it, but it seems to work without making healing trivial or unnecessary. (I was just thinking about how our "adventuring day" likely would have ended right after the gnolls).

@DM Salsa - regarding an NPC we know, do you prefer this to be someone from the Player's Guide (I call dibs on Gaedren Lamm! :) or just providing you with a name from our character background. Same question regarding location.

Also here is the text for the reserve feats I mentioned (none of them apply or can be chosen at first level). I wouldn't take all of these, but just something I am thinking about. To be honest, only Fiery Burst may even be worthwhile because of the cleric spell-list. May allow me to be more "blastery" and also would be fun with the self-reliant concept. The idea is that as long as you have a spell in "reserve" that you don't cast you can use that stored magic to create other effects:

FIERY BURST [RESERVE]
You channel your magical talent into a blast of fire.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: As long as you have a fire spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast, you can spend a standard action to create a 5-foot-radius burst of fire at a range of 30 feet. This burst deals 1d6 points of fire damage per level of the highest level fire spell you have available to cast. A successful Reflex save halves the damage.
As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus
to your caster level when casting fire spells.

SHADOW VEIL [RESERVE]
You draw wisps of darkness across your enemy's eyes, obscuring the
world around him.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: As long as you have a darkness spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast, you can obscure the vision of a subject within 30 feet as a standard action. If the subject fails a Will save, it treats all other creatures and objects as though they had concealment and takes
a –5 penalty on Spot checks for 1 round.
As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus
to your caster level when casting darkness spells.

STORM BOLT [RESERVE]
The electrical energy contained within your magic rages inside you,
begging to be released.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 3rd level spells.
Benefit: As long as you have an electricity spell of 3rd level or higher available to cast, you can fire a 20-foot line of electricity as a standard action. This bolt deals 1d6 points of electricity damage
per level of the highest-level electricity spell you have available to cast.
As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus
to your caster level when casting electricity spells.

WINTER'S BLAST [RESERVE]
The frozen magic within you can burst forth in a hail of
frost.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 2nd-level spells.
Benefit: As long as you have a cold spell of 2nd level or higher available to cast, you can create a 15-foot cone-shaped burst of cold. This cone deals 1d4 points of cold damage per level of the highest-level cold spell you have available to cast. A successful Reflex save halves the damage.
As a secondary benefit, you gain a +1 competence bonus
to your caster level when casting cold spells.

@Alice - maybe our characters can know each other? I like the idea of my character running into yours right at the point she is beaten and left for death. It would work well for him "returning" from the Vaults and ready to go find Lamm. He runs into someone with some tell-tale sign of Lamm's assault and thinks "never again - not one more." The self-reliance of your character would work well because of the same self-reliance of my own character. I imagine he (unnamed as of yet) would find her and instead of coddling her and nursing her wounds would be more of the, "Get up. If you die, Lamm wins." Let me know your thoughts. Not sure what our day-to-day activities would be but I'm open to it. Plus, I'd still have a connection with Tusilak (darkness) for when we run into him (or maybe I already know him at this point). Not trying to make my character the center of the whole party but those two connections jumped out for me.

In my opinion, Fiery Burst is basically an overpowered aoe ranged sneak attack.

Fiery Burst at level 2:

Costs 1 Feat
30 foot range
5ft burst
2d6 fire damage
Can be repeated infinitely as long as you don't cast your level 2 fire spell.
Targets an area (as opposed to a creature), so it can easily be used without friendly fire, or to maximum target coverage.
Doesn't require an attack roll.
Does not require the target to be flat-footed.
Affects targets that can't be affected by precision damage.
Deals damage even if the target saves unless the target is resistant to fire or has evasion.
Damage scales at an identical rate to Sneak Attack (+1d6/2 levels)
Not subject to concealment (other than total).
Not subject to cover (other than total).
No penalty for firing into melee.
+1 Caster Level to Fire spells

Sneak Attack at level 2 (shortbow)

Costs No Feats*
30 foot range
Single target
2d6 piercing damage
Requires an attack roll
Requires that the target be flat-footed/vulnerable (rarely occurs after the first round of combat)
Requires that the target be susceptible to precision damage.
Does no damage on a miss.
Attack penalty for cover. (*Requires Feat)
Negated by concealment.
Attack penalty for firing into melee. (*Requires 2 feats)

If I wanted to continue to match that damage as a rogue, I would have to endanger myself in melee and still be bound by limitations above.

The only point at which real ranged sneak attacks outperform it is if you have magical weaponry that deals extra damage and rogue tricks that apply on ranged sneak attacks, but even then, you still won't be able to sneak attack every round and it still won't be AOE. Fiery Burst will still be a considerably higher dps ability. If I were a caster, I'd LOVE to have it, but even then I'd still concede that it's not really balanced for the cost of a single feat.

I'm really loving how strain/injury is working out.

- In dungeon crawl type situations, the adventurers stay in the dungeon for longer rather than being forced to retreat every couple of rooms. 15-minute adventuring day is very obviously no longer a thing.

- Cure wands become useful items rather than mandatory items. Likewise, cure spells become useful spells rather than mandatory spells. (I'm sure Reggie is happy Olo prepared a cure spell today. :P)

- Low level adventures don't immediately grind to a halt the moment the cleric runs out of cure spells/channel energy.

- The healers of the party don't feel obliged to get channel positive energy. Negative energy clerics become much more viable in my opinion, because the opportunity cost of NOT having channel positive energy is lower.

- In-combat healing becomes more relevant. Healing someone before they can be dropped below 0 could save you a lot of resources in the long run.

And the best part is that most of the changes don't affect GM workload whatsoever!

@TheRedMage: Oh, that could be interesting... it would certainly explain her subsequent attitude. As a result she'd probably push herself to the absolute limit for everything and pretend she can just grit her teeth and get through it all. Hmm, I like this.

Oh, and on reserve feats... I personally like them, but I have no idea if they are balanced for a bog-standard Pathfinder game. Pathfinder seems to put (imo, silly) limits on daily power use, e.g. the 3 + mod daily uses for most bloodline (etc) powers.

And I suspect the 'ranged sneak attack' thing is more of a problem with rogues than with the feat... but it doesn't help with the caster-melee balance issues.

I agree. I think rogues need more love.

On the other side of the fence, though, I really wouldn't mind if he had the feat. It would just mean that I wouldn't have to worry about how much damage I do, because we'd have a constant output of it from someone else. I'd actually kind of like to play a less combat-focused character anyway.

So.. uh. Yeah. Balanced or not, I don't actually object to the feat. Just putting that out there. xD

On the subject of the strain system, I don't know how I ever lived without it. It's just awesome. It doesn't change the difficulty of combat, but significantly enhances the gameplay. I really love it.

I still don't know how my character will fit in with the others. Maybe he won't have ties to any of them! I'm still throwing ideas around in my head.

DM, would you allow the Threatening Defender trait? I think that's the only non-core thing I'm interested in. Although there's some fancy equipment from Ultimate Equipment that I'd love later on (brawling armor enchantment and bodywrap of mighty strikes in particular...)

@ TheRedMage: Sorry, but I'm going to say no to those feats. Too powerful, they pretty much equal instant 2nd level spell at will.

@ Alice: That one's okay. I have UE so the gear is not an issue either.

@ Reginald: You don't need to have you're story tie into everyone else's. It's reasonable, actually very probable, that any two characters would be total strangers because of how much harm Lamm has done.

Three so far, Still missing Molasbar, Bryce, Ninivic, and two others. (Good grief, didn't realize there were eight!) I'll start poking people towards the weekend.

Anyway, back to preparing.

Reginald & Alice - I appreciate the input regarding the reserve feats. I haven't actually played with one so I don't know how it would turn out. What if fiery burst were changed to a ranged touch attack or even a ranged attack? How about Storm Bolt the same way (ranged touch or ranged attack)? I think that would take care of most fo the issues, right?

Regardless it won't come into play until either 3rd level (fiery burst) or 5h level (storm bolt). DM Salsa - if you're worried about balance we can just forget about it altogether. I'm excited enough by the ascetic archetype which seems well balanced.

The other idea I was thinking strongly of was perhaps taking the eldritch heritage line of feats or even multi-classing cleric/sorceror (empyreal bloodline) then going to mystic theurge PrC. My character could then cover the "spellcaster" in our group. Plus, this completely goes with the character's history of self-reliance.

Also - congrats Alice on the scholarship!

Edit: I re-read through the eldritch heritage feats and they require a Cha 13 and are a little to feat intensive to be worth it. So the question is whether or not to take a hit to Cha for channeling, or maybe keep Cha high and potentially multi-class sorceror....

Still going to have to say no. The feats allow for unlimited uses and even if I put a limit on it, you essentially get that many free spell-slots per day.

And in the likely event I've forgotten to say it, Congrats on the scholarship Alice. I wish you luck in you're chosen field.

Thanks guys! :D

I'd like to hear your opinions... should I get Improved Trip or Improved Grapple first? I'm thinking Trip, but Grapple might be useful too.

I think we're going to have a good amount of melee in the group, so Trip is probably going to be useful right out of the box. Grapple IS good for control, though.

I was going to say the same thing - improved trip.

DM Salsa - no problem. That makes sense so I understand the limitation. Quick question (if you feel comfortable answering it) - does this campaign have a lot of undead? I don't plan on being a necromancer cleric, but just trying to decide if I should take positive or negative energy channeling and that might influence my decision.

And to recap our characters to date:

Ninivic - human cleric (evangelist)
Riddlewrong (Reginald) - rogue (?)
Alice - human fighter/monk
Bryce - dwarf ranger (I think he was going to change from spirit ranger to urban ranger archetype)
Molasbar - (on vacation)
RedMage - human cleric, possibly cleric/sorceror/mystic theurge

Riddlewrong - you mentioned interest in a non-combat character. Seems like we could use a skill-monkey (although rangers have good skills) or party face so that might work great. Especially given this is an urban campgaign I anticipate a lot of diplomacy, negotiation, etc.

Mystic Theurge sounds like a cool idea. Maybe even consider Oracle/Sorcerer for super Charisma stacking? (The spell level delay on both is a downer, though... but you'll have all the spells per day!)

Also, introducing Raina :) I've got my crunch for first level figured out. Just gotta write up the fluff now.

DM Salsa - no problem. That makes sense so I understand the limitation. Quick question (if you feel comfortable answering it) - does this campaign have a lot of undead? I don't plan on being a necromancer cleric, but just trying to decide if I should take positive or negative energy channeling and that might influence my decision.

There's less undead than in Carrion Crown. I can tell you that. The thing about negative energy channeling is you have to be careful. There's going to be a good number of characters at the beginning, so even with selective channel, it might cause problems. If you're comfortable with that, then you can go for it. Positive will definitely be helpful in a few parts of this AP.

@RedMage That was my thinking as well. I think we've got the actual combat stuff covered very well here, so a skill monkey/face is probably what I'm going to do. He'll still have some opportunistic ability to be useful in combat as well (in theory!). It'll be interesting to say the least. :) It'll also allow me to dust off my serious roleplaying pants.

@Alice Nice character! I'm impressed with how this group is shaping up. :D

@Alice - I thought about that doing the Oracle/Sorceror thing as well. If I take a sorceror with empyreal bloodline I can use Wisdom for sorceror casting which would work perfectly. Plus, sorceror's cant cast in armor. With my current build/archetype I don't wear armor anyways. I always appreciate the feedback. If I could find a way to make Oracle/Sorceror/Mystic theurge work well I would do it...

Oracles use Charisma as their casting stat, so you wouldn't need Empyreal Bloodline to make Oracle/Sorcerer work. It would work just fine with Mystic Theurge, but you'd have a significant delay in spell progression, as Alice said.

Sorceror/Oracle

Pros:

Only requires one stat (Cha).

Doesn't require preparation of spells in advance.

Cons:

Limited spell access.

Not eligible for Mystic Theurge until level 9.

Gets spells at a slower rate.

Cleric/Druid + Wizard

Pros:

Access to the majority of spells in the game.

Eligible for Mystic Theurge at level 7.

Gets spells at a faster rate.

Cons:

Requires preparation of spells in advance.

Requires two stats (Wis/Int).

These are NOT all the pros and cons, obviously! That would take waaay too long to get into in a single post. There are also a few other combinations that allow you to mix/match the pros/cons above (Empyreal Bloodline Sorc/Cleric or Druid, for example). There are some other differences based on class features, of course, but since those are only going to scale to level 3 or 4 in each class, the points above are some of the major pros and cons. Hopefully this has been a little bit helpful.

Nice list - thanks! Do you know any way to be able to get decent defenses, though? Sorceror (or wizard for that matter) would prevent me from wearing any armor from Oracle which would leave me being a little weak AC wise. Certainly the benefit of casting any spell I know spontaneously is awesome.

With my current build, it would be Dex/Wis for attibutes, plus I get Wisdom bonus to AC (ascetic) so I would have a decent AC right from level 1 all without armor!

Well, yes.

Arcane Armor Training

Ignore 10% spell failure as a swift action. However, it requires caster level 3rd. You might not have that for a looooong time with this build. On the plus side, you already meet the proficiency in light armor requirement, and the proficiency in medium armor requirement of its upgraded form:

Arcane Armor Mastery

However, this requires caster level 7th, which makes it a distant goal.

Certain bard builds get a similar ability to cast bard spells in light/medium armor, but.. that's for bards, which doesn't help you. xD There may be some other options, but I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Outside of that, there are a couple of other factors to consider.

You can cast arcane spells that don't have somatic components while wearing armor without incurring spell failure.

You could just roll the dice and hope you don't fail! The chances are actually pretty low in light armor.

You can level from 1-3 as a cleric or oracle and wear your armor the whole time, then at level 4 you can start taking sorcerer levels and still wear light armor with the feat. That way, you will never be put in a position where you're not wearing armor. That delays your arcane abilities and emphasizes your divine abilities, though, and I don't know if that's what you want!

You could also take Still Spell and/or grab a couple of Rods of Still Spell.

Or make use of your copious spell slots to get "alternate" AC options going, e.g. blur, mirror image, mage armor, shield, etc. Plus you could beef up your AC with items like ring of deflection, amulet of natural armor, etc.

Of course, I have no idea how often you intend to be in melee for your AC to matter. Mystic Theurge is, by its nature, a much more casting-focused build. If you don't intend to be in melee much at all, I just suggest casting mage armor and leaving it at that.

Alright! Raina is done. She turned out to be considerably "darker" than I intended at the beginning, but such is the fate of characters: they obtain life of their own!

Please tell me if you have any suggestions/things that should change/would like more info on something/etc.

@Raina: I like it. It's got some hooks begging for NPCs and some big meaty story. (Dang it, now I want a steak.) The only thing I need is about how many years ago she was abandoned by Lamm.

If anyone needs or wants some help, I've got the Guide to Korvosa, so just ask.

Hmm... she's 18 now, so I'd guess maybe 1.5-2 years ago? And she was probably with Lamm for 2-3 years.

Whee. Okay that means 15.5 to 13 years old when Lamm got his hooks into her.

More people to sucker punch! Woot!

I have a question!

My character is shaping up well, but as we've noted, his focus is more on social skills and skullduggery than combat.

Would you allow me to have him hire an NPC mercenary to act as a bodyguard? For a nobleman, this seems pretty in-character and sensical. The going rate according to Ultimate Equipment is 1-3gp a day, but it says that hirelings of higher skill levels may require more pay.

If you allowed me to do this, how much would you say this NPC costs? I'm flexible on this (flat rate/day, percentage of loot, or other special arrangement).

To make it less work for you, I can play the NPC (I wouldn't make him/her do anything unrealistic).

Let me know what you think.

I'm going to say no because you would essentially have two characters. Even if your focus is not combat, you can still contribute without having to hire a lackey. If it's something that still concerns you, go ahead and post what you've got and I can take look to see what I can do.

It was just an idea, not something I really had my heart set on. :)

It was just an idea, not something I really had my heart set on. :)

It's cool, I just wanted you to know that I'm willing to work with you on character concepts. I just draw the line at anything that increases the complexity too much.

I appreciate all the input regarding mystic theurge. My plan for now is to start with cleric 1, then decide how to split into sorceror and ultimately end up with mystic theurge.

@Alice - great character. I read the background and like how you worked it in. I was thinking we would know each other this way (open to your opinions or course): My character (as yet unnamed) finds you in an alley broken and bruised because he has been keeping track of Lamm and his whereabouts. He takes you back to the orphanage and drops you off at that doorstep. As you heal, you see him from time to time in public places throughout the city, but you two never get a chance to speak. You find knowledge of the local boxing/wrestling scene from a crumpled up flier that is left for you at the orphanage (later to discover from my character). Some time after you have immersed yourself in your training as you are coming back to your small apartment you are almost ambushed by a man in a hooded cloak. Your skill and senses prevent it and you easily pin the man who you discover is the same one who saved you years ago - my character. He laughs as you are ready to snap his neck, "Good! Good! Now we are ready to kill Lamm!" ..... As far as what the relationship is between our characters from that point, how we interact, what we do I'm open. I certainly don't want to make it seem like my character "made" your character but an interesting way for us to interact. I also want us to be similar age because I don't want this to be a master/student thing and certainly not a romantic thing. Two people who trust few others (but have learned to trust each other) with a mutual goal in mind. Let me know your thoughts!

@DM Salsa - I would like to take the Magical Knack trait and I apply it to the Sorceror class. I know that trait bonuses don't stack (which is why taking the same trait twice is usually not a good idea), but can this trait be selected twice (applying it once to Sorceror and once to Cleric)? RAW seem to indicate so but I wanted to make sure it is okay.

The trait wouldn't be of any use until I start to multiclass but just wanted to check. I see myself as "the spellcaster" for the group and am trying to position myself to be most effective in that role. If not, no big deal I will pick it once and then find another fun trait.

(Sorry for all my annoying questions!).

Oooh! I really like that TRM!

I think their relationship would be of mutual respect, not quite friends to begin with (because they probably don't know each other well) but someone they would stop and chat with if they ever met in the street, maybe go out for coffee or drinks together. Raina is probably conflicted about becoming closer to him because he reminds her of The Past, and so is somewhat distant at times (especially when she's feeling rather down about things).

I know that trait bonuses don't stack (which is why taking the same trait twice is usually not a good idea), but can this trait be selected twice (applying it once to Sorceror and once to Cleric)?

You can only ever have one trait from the one category (Combat, Faith, Religion, etc.) so you can't take the same trait twice.

Sorry, Red Mage, but she's right. (And she's probably going to correct me a few times before this is over with.)

No need to apologize. I certainly don't know all the rules and appreciate the feedback.

@Alice - cool! So I will write up some background and character cruch (probably be able to post tomorrow). Look through my background and let me know how you think things could be changed, better integrated, etc. I agree with their relationship - sounds good to me. Also, I will assume that our re-meeting occurred several months ago and will try to write about what their contact/relationship is now. Let me knwo if you have other ideas or how you want to modify it. I'm thinking of having my character work on seedier section of the docks (and thereby give us a contact with Whurly).

I'm going to go with a Tiefling rogue, I think. He'll be decently skilled, but definitely not a face for the most part (has an alright bluff check, at least), so someone else is going to have to be pretty.

If TRM goes with a Sorcerer/Cleric he'll probably have a decent Charisma score.

... Raina can... diplomacise... with her fists...? She has Intimidate +3! We're good to go!

EDIT: Vi's line sums it up well. "Punch first--ask questions while punching." Seems like it will work well. :D

Crunch is done!

He shares a common background with Raina in that he was tortured by Lamm and left for dead, but he had been employed by Lamm for a longer length of time before being cut loose.

Because he also primarily fights without weapons (claw attack racial feature) he and Raina may have trained together a few times, but his savage, aggressive slashing style might not have meshed well with her defensive, more graceful technique. This could have led to a parting of ways (which makes sense since Raina earns an honest living with her skills and he resorts to thievery and other underhanded means).

It's sort of a "two sides of the same coin" thing.

It doesn't significantly impose on your background because their actual time spent together was probably sporadic at best, but at the very least this could establish them as acquaintances.

I'm still writing all the details. I should have the finished character ready by tomorrow.

Hey, the more the merrier.

I could see them having been friends (at least through circumstance) while they were part of the Little Lambs together for sure. Perhaps even very close companions, giving each other support and such. He was probably "employed" by Lamm before she was picked up and taught her the ropes and how to deal with things, I guess.

Maybe Raina was first hurt/betrayed by him because he didn't try to stick up for her when she tried to stand up to Lamm. Then, later, when she meets him again and he's turned to a life of thievery and such, she feels even less inclined to forgive him for that cowardice. (Plus, he's even MORE of a reminder of all the terrible stuff that happened back then than TRM's character.)

So she'd treat him distantly and as untrustworthy, although part of her would really like to make amends for the stuff that happened in the past, but she's too stubborn and upset to do so. Could make for some interesting character progression between the two of 'em. Especially good if he was a more upstanding kind of guy in the past.

What d'ya think? (Feel free to say no!)

I love it! This is character development gold. Let's do it. :D

I'll write all about it in his background tomorrow. For now, it's bed time!

Thanks for your input!