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Longacre. If proud Egorian is the heart and soul of the Infernal Empire, then Longacre - located on the edge of the Whisperwood Forest - is... less glamorous, some organ you don't notice until it stops functioning. It's not a place to come from: those who leave, who make something of themselves, reinvent their past and Longacre inevitably gets lost in transition. Longacre's where you end up, usually if you've disgraced or embarrassed yourself - or someone important. Soldiers (there are many veterans here) speak of the "Long march to Longacre" as a fate worse than death - a place to hide those crippled in, or otherwise discharged from, Her Majestrix's Service.
That said, Longacre is a key part of the Archbarony of Fex and a functioning, even thriving, town. Its lumber and charcoal burners supply the fuel for smithies and forges across most of southern Cheliax; and the leather armour stamped with the mark of Louislik's Tannery is recognised for its quality by soldiers across the realm. Its church (dedicated to Iomedae: soldiers identify more with the Chelish warrior-goddess than they do with the devil-god of lawyers) is well maintained and the local sheriff is popular and known to be incorruptible.
Longacre really only has two problems: the first is that its residents are strongly sympathetic to the Glorious Reclamation; and the second is that it's home to a half-dozen villains who are looking to make a name for themselves....
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Welcome to the discussion/character creation thread! This is where you introduce yourselves and your character concepts, and begin the process of making a villain fit for this AP.
A few thoughts, which are intended to help:
1) this is not Way of the Wicked - your character does not start out as the most notorious criminal villain the land has ever seen. You're first level and you were either born in, or ended up in, a humble backwater town.
2) the intro to the AP is a minor heist - if you're creating a "the blood of innocents is my breakfast" villain, go ahead, but it will help if you can create someone who won't just see the early stuff as beneath them.
3) evil is as evil does - I like humour and I do my best to prevent campaigns I run from being unremitting grimdark, but this is a gritty campaign. I have a high tolerance for squick and if it's within Paizo's posting guidelines then it's not going to bother me. On which point:
3a) triggers. If there's anything that's going to squick you out, please say so upfront. I've gamed with survivors of all sorts of abuse and trauma; it has always worked, but I'd prefer to know now rather than after the fact. PM me if you prefer.
4) you don't need to be Asmodean to work here but it helps. If your character follows a different deity/cause, please ensure they won't be opposed to supporting and actively working for House Thrune.
5) some social interaction is crucial (by which I mean bluff/diplomacy/intimidate/sense motive). Being able to get things done without violence is useful. Remember that dead men and women pay no taxes.
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So, on to character creation. I favour the Focus and Foible rules:
Pick one stat at 18
Pick one stat at 8
Roll d10+7 for each of the other four stats and allocate as you like
Hit points: maximum at level 1, after that it's half HD + 1
We will be using the following rules from Unchained:
*Background Skills
*Combat Stamina (free for fighters)
*Unchained classes (rogue, monk, summoner, barbarian)
*Automatic Bonus Progression
Magic: I'm thinking about using the Spherecasting rules from Spheres of Power to replace the existing magic rules. Thoughts/comments welcome.
Pretty much everything is up for discussion: if you want/don't want something, speak up.
Let me just dot this for a second and I shall be getting back to you.
Dotting this. I need to re-read the unchained stuff, and the Spheres of Power stuff.
Hey Old Dude DM! :-P
If I may welcome you to our merry not-so-merry band of miscreants and ne'er-do-wells. :-)
Quickdot. Hi, everyone!
1) Excellent. Villains from humble beginnings, I like it.
2) I've played the first 1/3 or so of the first book before the game I was in went dormant, and agree with this sentiment. Although our party had two captial E evil types, they were just starting out and knew their place in the cosmic order of things.
3) No issues with grimdark or squick.
4, 5) Noted!
Char Creation:
Focus/Foible, eh? I find the rolls determine the character concept a lot more than point buy builds, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Shoehornes builds, but stretches creativity.
No unchained poison/disease? Just checking before I toss a potential concept. If it is up for discussion, I'd like to use these rules.
Magic: If we're voting, I vote yes on SoP. It is very thematic (in that you can much better create "themed" characters than Vancian systems). for those that don't have the ruleset.
ABP, yay!
Oh, and...
With rolls like, I'm likely going some sort of 3/4 bab casting class. Shifter if we use SoP. Or perhaps an antipaladin if not. An antipaladin of humble beginnings. That's a thing, right?
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Ah, regarding the opening post points and thoughts and all...
1) Fine by me. We will have something to look forward to, i.e. becoming the most notorious criminal villain(s) the land has ever seen.
2) I have played a bit of the "blood of innocents, breakfast of champions" baddie before. Not against a change of pace. Breakfast can wait.
3) I have a pretty high squick threshold. Still, that does not mean I am interested in fully detailed descriptions of the naughtier bits. But having played with you before I know you do not swing that way. That much anyway. :-P
4) I am still thinking on that. Norgorber seems like a fun deity. *Wink wink*
5) Ah, yes, but what about undead ones? Because since death is not entirely certain in Pathfinder, perhaps maybe neither are taxes.
Focus/Foible is interesting, if a bit dependent on the Dice Gods and their whims. Dice rolling ability score generation can make or break MAD classes. I suppose we shall see what we shall roll...
The Unchained rules you have listed I am certainly on board with. Same goes for hit point generation (because... Dice Gods and whims etc).
As for Spheres of Power, no opinion really. Seems like an interesting system, but I do not know much about it. Although I probably will not be making a spellcaster, so I probably will not be affected by it other than as a target of spells. :-D
Reporting in!
1) and 2) Got it, will work on the background
3) If its the level the previous WotW campaign, I've no problems with it.
4) Zon Ku-thon! Zon Ku-thon! Zon Ku-thon! :P
Or daemons. Or Urgathoa, I'll see on the build first.
5) I think I'll go Charisma based, in fact! I just really want to try out Skilled Casting(sing), more than anything else. :P
Speaking of which, I'm obviously on board with SoP. I detest rolling for stats, but here we go!
Eh, could go worse. By picking a race that gives a bonus to two scores, I should be able to build anything. I'm leaning on either someone that revolves around getting hurt to power himself up (like an evil Oradin-thingie, or maybe the Draining casting drawback?), or go for Skelemen summoner and go around with my cute little group of blood-drenched undead. They won't even pay taxes!
@Castor: The cool thing about SoP is that because the talents (the spells, practically) tend to be fewer in number but more flexible, some archetypes for the base classes and some of the SoP classes like the Mageknight get a few of them to complement their ability to beat people up. Spheres have much fewer trash options than the normal Paizo books, so picking something because it sounds cool and on theme usually works ("Oooh, debuffing darkness!","Oooh, utility illusions!", "Oooh, spawning anvils on top of people!").
Hmm... Well, the Mageknight does seem like a cool gish-like class, I will give you that. I will probably give the SoP Wiki Mr. Chicken linked to a better look at some point, if for no other reason than to see if there is indeed an anvil-dropping ability somewhere in there. :-P
if for no other reason than to see if there is indeed an anvil-dropping ability somewhere in there. :-P
There is: "Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack, with a range increment of 20 feet."
Looking forward to seeing what you all come up with!
Well... Looney Tunes wizard. :-P
It does appear to provide casters with a freedom the Vancian system does not possess. And is it just me or is the Words of Power system somewhat reminiscent of it? Different certainly and not as abstract/free/what-have-you, but similar in a way.
5) I think I'll go Charisma based, in fact! I just really want to try out Skilled Casting(sing), more than anything else. :P
My incanter has the Skilled Casting (Linguistics) drawback. He uses a primal language (the linguistics skill) to fundamentally change the building blocks of reality. Basically, he's a Words of Power caster. I find that I fail that skill check at the worst possible time, even with skill focus and a trait bonus :/
Well... Looney Tunes wizard. :-P
Oooohhhhhh. Werewolf-kin skinwalker?
Werecoyote would be more appropriate. ;-)
But as for my character? Weeell... no, not quite.
I am actually considering a Vigilante, but not so much a Batman, as much as a Garak. Or at the very least a sort of fusion of Garak with Batman-like qualities, since I am thinking Avenger rather than Stalker. And yes, he will be a tailor, his social identity anyway. ;-)
Still thinking on the particulars.
By the way, how many traits do we choose at character creation?
One campaign trait, and one additional trait.
Cool. Cool cool cool.
And are drawbacks allowed in exchange for a third trait?
Edit: Also, I may as well get the rolling part over with.
Edit 2: Ooh, nice! Thank you Dice Gods! I shall sacrifice many an NPC to your glory!
Hey Castor/Arannis! How's it going?
Great to see people I know here! Should be fun.
I am pretty open to anything, and as far as squick goes I am okay to a point. I'm with castor on this: I am more of a 'theater of the mind' player. I find the imagination creates far worse scenes than any overly graphic descriptions.
I usually play a diplomacy-based character, but I am thinking about an Unchained barbarian or monk. Something melee-related to give us that angle if needed.
Not bad! I can work with this!
Drawbacks are allowed for a third trait, yes.
So,
OGGM is thinking melee beatstick.
F. Castor is thinking melee beatstick/stealthy type (and a tailor, to fix his and OGGM's clothes when they get ruined with all the beatsticking).
Adhan is thinking charisma caster Oradin type (healbot?) or skeleton summoner.
I'm thinking about porting over my previous HV character as a shifter (if we go with SoP). He'd be a beatstick/scout, but maybe that'd be redundant? I could go with another caster to round things out. That PC's personality could also work with a bounty hunter / slaver-type, which could be an enchanter.
Are we expecting anyone else, DMD? How important is a balanced party?
Um . . . that is rather insane. Now to find something interesting to play.
Never heard of the Spheres of Power, will have to look at that.
No problem with squick, but rarely see the need to be too graphic, let the imagination go . . .
EDIT - Oh, and welcome all. Pretty sure I have played with most of you at one point or another.
There are five of you, and you've all now dotted in. So welcome!
Tirion, those are... some dice rolls. Stats of 18, 17, 17, 15, 15, 8 (before racial adjustment)?!
FC: balanced party is no more or less important than in any other AP. In other words, recommended but not critical. Go with what interests you.
Still a work in progress, but here you go.
By the way, what starting wealth do we have to work with?
Yeh, when I saw those rolls, I did a double take. Pretty sure it would be a 55 point build.
Still trying to figure out what to play. Was thinking something nature based, but cannot find a good fit. Looking at a druid or ranger, perhaps the hunter that gets rid of the animal companion since I really hate running companions and eidolons.
Are we fixed on the Sphere of Power magic? I am not sure I have the time to read up on this and do not own the book.
On SoP: we have 2 in favour (Adahn and Fighting Chicken), 2 with no clear opinion so far (OGGM and F Castor) and it looks like 1 against (Tirion).
I really like it, but as it's 3rd party I'm not going to force the issue - I'd prefer you to decide collectively, if possible.
F. Castor - looks good. Thanks for providing links on your character sheet - makes it much easier! I can't find the "Obscurity" social talent, though - where are you getting it from?
EDIT: Starting wealth is average.
It is from the Book of Beasts Player Companion. Here you go...
Oook, I think I've settled on a Thaumaturge (probably Devourer), using the Destruction/death spheres for damage and debuff, sprinkled with the Life sphere to keep everyone up and running.
I'm thinking about porting over my previous HV character as a shifter (if we go with SoP). He'd be a beatstick/scout, but maybe that'd be redundant?
Well, a Shifter still has 3/4 CL. I'd suppose you'd pick Alteration stuff, so that can be used to buff others too.
And if everyone is doing damage, stuff dies faster: and dead things do no damage. Bam, proactive healing!@Tirion: Holy crap those stats. SoP is fairly easy to learn, particularly if you pick one of the archetypes/classes with just a smidge of talents.
F. Castor: niiice, a perfect addition to the class for those who want to play 'mild-mannered tailor' by day and 'dabbler in darkness' by night. Have you considered the Serial Killer archetype from Horror Adventures, btw?
Adahn: let me guess, you're planning on taking the Master of Death feat, right? :p
I did have a look at the various archetypes, but none looked particularly interesting to me. And the Serial Killer is not exactly how I am picturing my guy. A flavorful archetype to be sure, but not that fitting to what I am thinking. Plus it does give up a bit too much in the way of social and vigilante talents. And it is a Stalker archetype and I kinda like my full BAB. :-P
The more I think about it, the harder I find it is to explain why a barbarian and/or monk would be in Longacre, based on what the town is. More thought is required.
Barbarian: town drunk? Disgraced former soldier, hides behind a bottle and then sobers up enough to be (vaguely) reliable?
Monk - hmm, monk is trickier. On the other hand: Hamatulatsu master!
Being first level means that no character has got very far in their profession - and that makes for great opportunities, story-wise. Promising wizards end up as apprentices in the backwaters of nowhere, either because they didn't realise it's all about who you know, not what; or because they offended someone powerful and nobody else will employ them. A monk is thrown out of their monastery and uses their talents to be a two-bit bodyguard, scaring off the local toughs.
And then there are those who actively seek out these quiet backwater towns, because maybe the local guardsmen are a bit less vigilant, the locals a bit less wary, than in the bigger cities, meaning that they can get away with more...
Adahn: let me guess, you're planning on taking the Master of Death feat, right? :p
Actually, I'm not sure! I definitely won't be able to fit in the necromancer talents, and I'm not even sure if I'll pick up the Death sphere at all. Right now, I'm fairly set in the Devourer Thaumaturge, maybe with a one level dip in sphere magus for spellcombat: about that, would it be okay if I used Cha for the Magus casting, too?I could go INT on the Thau side too, but I really like the Cha based crazy singer.
Speaking of which, flavour wise I think I'll go for a former Shelynite singer that has gone off the deep Khutite end and has been sent to Longacre to cover up her involvement in having barbed-wire fun with the wrong people (maybe getting someone killed?).
My previous Evil character was very grounded and practical: I'll go for affable Ax Crazy this time. :P
would it be okay if I used Cha for the Magus casting, too?
First reaction: nope. Second reaction: unlikely, but I'll think about it.
My previous Evil character was very grounded and practical: I'll go for affable Ax Crazy this time. :P
*splutters into helltea*
Grounded and practical?! Are you talking about Etna? As in Wisdom-8-shared-blood-transfusion-with-a-contract-devil-to-become-Tiadora's -sister ETNA?!
Relatively grounded and practical, and I didn't say anything about what she was doing being a good idea. :P (What kind of Devil was Tiadora, anyway?)
Regarding the Cha thing, in support of my case, Charisma is a much worse stat than Intelligence: picking the second is definitely the best mechanical option (as there are a number of ways to make that count for some social skills), while the first has the advantage mostly in the fact that it allows efficient use of UMD.
Are we fixed on the Sphere of Power magic? I am not sure I have the time to read up on this and do not own the book.
No need to own the book, there's a wiki that provides most all the ruleset and a couple of guides, all linked to above. As for the time, I can't help you :)
If you're thinking ranger, here's the sphere archetype. You'll have four levels to figure the system out.
A Sphere Druid is a little more complicated, but still isn't too bad. One thing that I love about SoP is that you don't have to familiarize yourself with like 500 spells. Instead you just pick a theme and focus on that (I want to be a blaster mage! Destruction Sphere. I want to shapeshift! Alteration Sphere. I want to be an enchanter! Mind Sphere. And so on.)
For a druid, you're probably most interested in Alteration (for the shape changing), Nature, and Weather. Maybe Life if you want to heal. Most spheres have between 10-20 talents.
Basic rules are here. Weirdly, they hide in plain sight on the main page.
All that said, if you're totally opposed to giving SoP a go, I'm fine playing a more traditional class. But I hope you'll check it out. It is a really elegant system. I don't plan to run a Vancian game ever again.
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I'm traveling right now, so char creation may take me a bit. I think I'll hold off and see where the other players land, since some things are still up in the air. I have the personality in mind, just need to find the crunch for him.
Still a work in progress, but here you go.
By the way, what starting wealth do we have to work with?
Hey, that guy looks familiar! Vigilante, on paper, looks like a fun class. I'm excited to see one in action.
Trying to figure out the SoP rules. Look interesting, just quite a bit to digest. Several of the classes look interesting. If the group decides on SoP, I will play a non-caster, there are plenty of them that are still interesting.
Relatively grounded and practical, and I didn't say anything about what she was doing being a good idea. :P (What kind of Devil was Tiadora, anyway?)
Regarding the Cha thing, in support of my case, Charisma is a much worse stat than Intelligence: picking the second is definitely the best mechanical option (as there are a number of ways to make that count for some social skills), while the first has the advantage mostly in the fact that it allows efficient use of UMD.
You could consider the Eldritch Scion archetype as it makes Charisma the casting stat. It also restricts Spell Combat somewhat though.
Eldritch Scion and Sphere Magus aren't compatible, as they both replace spell combat: even if we made them stack, the fact that I would have to spend spell points to have the ability to spell combat is really rough. :/
Ah, fair point I suppose.
As for me, I think I have Erevan (Ver. 2.0) mechanically ready.
He will be focusing on dual wielding kukris (at least from 3rd level and onwards) and doing as much damage as he can with them (they do have a juicy crit range which becomes even tastier with the Improved Critical feat or the keen enchantment; probably going for the former myself). Some of his vigilante talents will be about heightened senses and speed and agility though, not just accuracy and damage. Still, I thought to grab him the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, as well as an easily concealable spring blade, because not all of his identities are going to be armed to the teeth probably (and because Lethal Grace is awesome). Not much on the ranged front for him, but alas, vigilantes do not have proficiency with the hand crossbow, so the sling is the next best thing (perhaps even better damage-wise if you can move past the fact that it is... well, a sling).
Skills are the more or less usual rogue/skill monkey/face choices. There will be additions down the road, like Craft (Clothing) -to complement his Profession (Tailor)- and some other stuff (dips mostly). He will be grabbing a set of concealable thieves' tools (like masterwork, but smaller and much more easily hidden) and a set of masterwork artisan's tools (because... tailor) as soon as possible.
By the way, I was thinking of posting with two aliases, his main one being Erevan Cale, the blade-wielding sneaky warrior dude, and his social one being Corridan Valkeri, the Varisia-born-and-raised tailor (he does speak Varisian fluently, along with Dwarven and Elven, and he does affect a slight but noticeable Varisian accent when in his tailor persona and speaking Common); they even look somewhat alike. Most posts will of course be with the former rather than the latter, as his social identity is not exactly the main one (this being an adventure path and all, so... adventure and fights and all that jazz). What do you think?
(What kind of Devil was Tiadora, anyway?)
The kind that would have been really, really, EPICALLY unhappy to discover that she had an unwanted sister :P
To think, I had some amazing reveals planned for that campaign. Ah well. Such is life.
F. Castor - I think the 2 aliases idea is a good one. That way we'll be in no doubt as to which of your personas is presently... present.
EDIT: with you on the lack of cool factor for the sling. I'd be willing to re-flavour it as a catapult-type thing if you like. Same mechanics, just a different look.
Nah, thanks. It is inconspicuous more or less at least. More believable for even a tailor or commoner to carry around instead of a crossbow or bow or something. ;-)
(What kind of Devil was Tiadora, anyway?)The kind that would have been really, really, EPICALLY unhappy to discover that she had an unwanted sister :P
To think, I had some amazing reveals planned for that campaign. Ah well. Such is life.
:(
Regarding build and fluff, I should be able to put up something up this evening: I won't be taking the Magus dip until level 2 and 3 (I feel it's more appropriate to start with Thau), so it's no problem if you want to take time to think about the Cha thing. Even if we'll keep it as Int, II realized it's not that big of a deal, as most spheres scale with CL and I lose mostly on the concentration bonus from spell combat by having low INT.
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Hmm...we can't all wait to see the direction the others go. I will have my character up tonight if all goes well.
Looking forward to see what you come up with.
It looks like we need some healing. I'm going triple goddess hedge witch. Former priest of Pharasma gone down the wrong path.
Will heal, can probably go into minions or debugging.
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De... bugging...? :-P
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De... bugging...? :-P
Those Paladins are exploiting some mighty system errors to teleport around and give themselves infinite Smite Evils per day. We gotta stop that!
And wow, I was just going to say what secondary sphere should I focus on (Destruction for primary one, OFC!), and I was about to ask if I should pick up healing. Fighting, should I pick up something to buff ourselves, if you're covering healing, skellies and debugging? Is the Alteration sphere good for that? Maybe protection? Enhancement so I can pseudo summon with Animate Object? Warp?
EDIT: Does the Scion of Humanity trait for Tiefling and Aasimar lets you select Human FCBs? That "any effect related to race" is a very broad description, and the fact that it says that "feat prerequisites" are effects only confuses me more D:
Heh, yeah, the sys-admin sphere is pretty specialized, but it will come in handy. Also, weirdly, it is great for dealing with vermin.
@Adahn, Destruction can do a lot for bfc and direct damage, so I'd go in a different direction for your minor. Since you don't get many talents (I assume you'll be spending some feats on extra talent?), I'd go with a sphere you can spend one or two talents on and get a lot out of the basic sphere abilities out of the gate.
Alteration can give a few buffs, but you probably need more talents that what you can afford to buy.
I have a player that uses Enhancement/Animate Object with caster level bumps to great effect.
Illusion/Mind/Protection/Time/Warp can make good dips, in my opinion, but I'm hardly an optimizer. Buff-wise, probably Protection or Time. More healing is also never a bad thing, but it is probably more talent-focused than what you want to get into.