Do you think other planets have oak trees, let alone trees in general? What in the James Cameron...
No the spell allows you to travel any distance, but not to other planes. Other planes do not exist in the same reality as each other. In order to travel through a plant you need to specify a location or at least distance and directions in relation to where you are.
RAW the spell does not say you can cross planar boundaries so you cannot.
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Considering that there has been some interplanetary and even interstellar travel in the ages, it is possible to try to move to other planets hoping there is the right tree there. You can need several tries, and some plants are highly improbable choices when trying to go to some planet (using a baobab to go to a cold planet is an almost guaranteed failure).
The main risk is to leave the destination tree and discover you are in some palace or botanical garden.
As a small note, going from a single atmosphere of pressure (normal earth/golarion air pressure) to virtually 0 atmospheres (outerspace) even instantly will not do much to the body or the fluids inside of it. The "sudden freezing effect" of sudden low air pressure isn't even the main concern of people going from deep free dives at up to 100atm of pressure back up over the course of minutes; the bigger problem is that your body will expand unevenly. But the kicker is that (while there are some small logarithmic effects) the effects of pressure change are almost universally linear, and the nonlinear effects are highly mitigated by the fact that skin is stretchy, and you will not balloon out like a humanoid blob fish and freeze every bit of blood in your capillaries. Will it swell a bit, yes, but even when someone has an open wound, the blood is not going to freeze and bubble and boil because there's tons of solvents (blood cells, sugar, salts, lipids, etc) that keep the water from easily boiling let alone the plasma that acts almost like an instant clot in empty space, and B, your body runs very hot.
In fact, if you were left alone naked in empty space, and you didn't die of other factors of exposure first (suffocation, UV radiation from the sun), you'd likely die from overheating because basic metabolic functions no longer can be cooled by convection and evaporation.
We literally have two incidents of bare human skin being exposed to empty space, and neither person felt cold or anything other than mild chaffing, despite the first person literally having a hole punched through his suit cutting his hand by a metal bar.
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I think transport via plants is planetary only since its level 6 in between teleport and greater teleport while well away from interplanetary teleport (which also doesn't do planes). The level works as it allows safe, directed travel but only to a specific goal. You can't go from a temperate forest to a desert as the plants are different but you can go from one temperate forest to another. However even interplanetary teleport a level 9 doesn't allow you to cross the planes they're designed for different purposes travel in a plane vs travel between them.
note - in RL there are only (fungus & mold) spores in outer space as it is far too cold for any terrestrial leafy plant or multicellular organism to survive let alone the higher amount of solar and cosmic radiation.I agree with the consensus on the main topic, but just a note on this: In real life, space is not actually cold. ...average temperate in deep space is about 3°Kelvin (rather cold at -270°C) for the 3 hydrogen molecules per cubic meter. It is almost all radiant thermal conduction although the average mean path of the few molecules is quite long for thermal conduction but not enough mass for convection at normal(human) size scales.
All things radiate energy, I'd review the black body problem and curve.
I understand the temperature problem but going to an idealized concept is not the answer.lastly, the vacuume in insulating jars and such is not very good (in torrs or Pa). It is better than most other handy materials.
What you're saying is true, but the temperature of space might as well be "does not exist" from the perspective of the average (non-technical science minded) person. There isn't enough mass of anything to interact with for conduction or convection to be relevant. Although, as you mention being suddenly exposed to hard vacuum is going to start boiling your blood and force all the oxygen out of you if you out there for any significant amount of time (due to pressure differences).
Anyways, I'd advised the OP to look at some method of getting plane shift.
The funny thing with plane shift is, you can plane shift to another plane and then back to anywhere on the material plane that you know of, and at worse be like 500 miles off.
I think transport via plants is planetary only since its level 6 in between teleport and greater teleport while well away from interplanetary teleport (which also doesn't do planes). The level works as it allows safe, directed travel but only to a specific goal. You can't go from a temperate forest to a desert as the plants are different but you can go from one temperate forest to another. However even interplanetary teleport a level 9 doesn't allow you to cross the planes they're designed for different purposes travel in a plane vs travel between them.
As I mentioned though, the higher level teleport spells are kind of BS though. Because plane shifting twice can get you within 500 miles of your destination.
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note - in RL there are only (fungus & mold) spores in outer space as it is far too cold for any terrestrial leafy plant or multicellular organism to survive let alone the higher amount of solar and cosmic radiation.I agree with the consensus on the main topic, but just a note on this: In real life, space is not actually cold. ...average temperate in deep space is about 3°Kelvin (rather cold at -270°C) for the 3 hydrogen molecules per cubic meter. It is almost all radiant thermal conduction although the average mean path of the few molecules is quite long for thermal conduction but not enough mass for convection at normal(human) size scales.
All things radiate energy, I'd review the black body problem and curve.
I understand the temperature problem but going to an idealized concept is not the answer.lastly, the vacuume in insulating jars and such is not very good (in torrs or Pa). It is better than most other handy materials.
What you're saying is true, but the temperature of space might as well be "does not exist" from the perspective of the average (non-technical science minded) person. There isn't enough mass of anything to interact with for conduction or convection to be relevant. Although, as you mention being suddenly exposed to hard vacuum is going to start boiling your blood and force all the oxygen out of you if you out there for any significant amount of time (due to pressure differences).
Anyways, I'd advised the OP to look at some method of getting plane shift.
The funny thing with plane shift is, you can plane shift to another plane and then back to anywhere on the material plane that you know of, and at worse be like 500 miles off.
I think transport via plants is planetary only since its level 6 in between teleport and greater teleport while well away from interplanetary teleport (which also doesn't do planes). The level works as it allows safe, directed travel but...
500 miles off target can be a problem (even in this edition where it can no longer be straight up or down and instant death) if your under a time crunch or then have to figure out how to get to your intended destination across deserts, tundra or extra-planar navigation. That said I agree when it comes to interplanetary teleport that was an unnecessary nerf to greater teleport especially given how few games involve interplanetary travel to begin with.
...note - in RL there are only (fungus & mold) spores in outer space as it is far too cold for any terrestrial leafy plant or multicellular organism to survive let alone the higher amount of solar and cosmic radiation.I agree with the consensus on the main topic, but just a note on this: In real life, space is not actually cold. ...average temperate in deep space is about 3°Kelvin (rather cold at -270°C) for the 3 hydrogen molecules per cubic meter. It is almost all radiant thermal conduction although the average mean path of the few molecules is quite long for thermal conduction but not enough mass for convection at normal(human) size scales.
All things radiate energy, I'd review the black body problem and curve.
I understand the temperature problem but going to an idealized concept is not the answer.lastly, the vacuume in insulating jars and such is not very good (in torrs or Pa). It is better than most other handy materials.
What you're saying is true, but the temperature of space might as well be "does not exist" from the perspective of the average (non-technical science minded) person. There isn't enough mass of anything to interact with for conduction or convection to be relevant. Although, as you mention being suddenly exposed to hard vacuum is going to start boiling your blood and force all the oxygen out of you if you out there for any significant amount of time (due to pressure differences).
Anyways, I'd advised the OP to look at some method of getting plane shift.
The funny thing with plane shift is, you can plane shift to another plane and then back to anywhere on the material plane that you know of, and at worse be like 500 miles off.
I think transport via plants is planetary only since its level 6 in between teleport and greater teleport while well away from interplanetary teleport (which also doesn't do planes). The level works as it allows
You're right that 500 miles off can be troublesome in a time crunch, but anyone who has access to plane shift probably can also get access to teleport.And teleport has a 75% chance to get you where you need to go even if you've only viewed it once via scrying. Combining these two together means you can get anywhere you need to go, as long as you "know" where it is without too much difficult. There is a chance for failure, but the chance isn't a big deal unless you're in a time crunch.
In before someone mentions using Kn Nobility to scry the leaders of exotic locations to "have seen a location" to try and teleport there, and the ensuing discussion of why political leaders getting randomly scried and high level magical nobodies (to the population of the destination) just suddenly, frequently, and randomly appearing in court rooms is hilarious breach of sensible decorum.
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In before someone mentions using Kn Nobility to scry the leaders of exotic locations to "have seen a location" to try and teleport there, and the ensuing discussion of why political leaders getting randomly scried and high level magical nobodies (to the population of the destination) just suddenly, frequently, and randomly appearing in court rooms is hilarious breach of sensible decorum.
LOL. "Scry and fry" is hard to do but possible. I think most nobles will have some protection against that, and that people teleporting in a court room will have very short lifespans.
I would try to teleport near the Nelson monument in London or Chinatown gate in San Francisco or some other famous location. A detailed painting of a location should be enough for Greater Teleport.
In before someone mentions using Kn Nobility to scry the leaders of exotic locations to "have seen a location" to try and teleport there, and the ensuing discussion of why political leaders getting randomly scried and high level magical nobodies (to the population of the destination) just suddenly, frequently, and randomly appearing in court rooms is hilarious breach of sensible decorum.Just scry on the noble, then separately scry on the lower class people that were nearby, and wait until they are outside castle walls to scry on them again, in a public location. You will get funky looks for randomly teleporting in the middle of the town square, but as long as magic is known about and not illegal in that kingdom, everyone will be go about their business as usual.
Scry can only a 10ft radius around the caster, and even that isn't clear vision, so you're banking on the noble not being in their throne when you do so, nevermind all the other supposed protections that might be in place.
That said, the one example of said protections I know about was for a queen in her castle in the middle of a metropolis, and she only had a mage's private sanctum for her bathroom.
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In before someone mentions using Kn Nobility to scry the leaders of exotic locations to "have seen a location" to try and teleport there, and the ensuing discussion of why political leaders getting randomly scried and high level magical nobodies (to the population of the destination) just suddenly, frequently, and randomly appearing in court rooms is hilarious breach of sensible decorum.LOL. "Scry and fry" is hard to do but possible. I think most nobles will have some protection against that, and that people teleporting in a court room will have very short lifespans.
I would try to teleport near the Nelson monument in London or Chinatown gate in San Francisco or some other famous location. A detailed painting of a location should be enough for Greater Teleport.
I always try to find out of the way places near my target gives you time to get your bearings better.
I do prefer the earlier versions of teleport that are much less generous with their destination rolls.
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I do prefer the earlier versions of teleport that are much less generous with their destination rolls.
They were deadly with your destination rolls.
I recall a 1st edition AD&D wizard teleporting to his castle, on the upper floor of a tower. Even with a 99% chance of reaching the correct location he failed and ended 10' lower. Guessing the decor of the room I decided he had materialized with a leg in a chair. He needed a Regeneration but otherwise, he was fine. But he could have materialized with the floor halfway to his torso. Instant death.We have gone from Teleport is rarely used (and Haste, too, as it aged you by a year and required a system shock survival check) to "It is used constantly".
My solution in the 1st edition of AD&D was to allow the construction of "target platforms" that reduced the failure to 0 if you had "carefully studied" them.
Teleporting to a known and prepared location was easy, telepoting to an unknow location was very risky.
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I do prefer the earlier versions of teleport that are much less generous with their destination rolls.They were deadly with your destination rolls.
I recall a 1st edition AD&D wizard teleporting to his castle, on the upper floor of a tower. Even with a 99% chance of reaching the correct location he failed and ended 10' lower. Guessing the decor of the room I decided he had materialized with a leg in a chair. He needed a Regeneration but otherwise, he was fine. But he could have materialized with the floor halfway to his torso. Instant death.We have gone from Teleport is rarely used (and Haste, too, as it aged you by a year and required a system shock survival check) to "It is used constantly".
My solution in the 1st edition of AD&D was to allow the construction of "target platforms" that reduced the failure to 0 if you had "carefully studied" them.
Teleporting to a known and prepared location was easy, telepoting to an unknow location was very risky.
I use much the same. I admit I'm very much against the wizard nerfing that is such a thing in current editions feeling its more a player problem than a class problem but I do use a lot of older and house rules that make the magic rather different to use for some things. Sadly I've never been able to impliment all of them because I feel a lot of them would be unfun for the average player e.g. different crafting rules and the like plus I lost a lot of the webpages I'd saved when they got corrupted in a computer crash. However that's a whole different thread.
Point is regardless of personal feelings greater teleport is a level higher than teleport via plants and that is currently limited to one planet on one plane in use.
The Scrying spell allows you "to observe a creature", and you see a small area around him/her/it. It is not guaranteed that you can recognize the location. Pathfinder has very few ways to scry a location.
I only mention scrying because it's explicitly mentioned in the teleport spell as counting "having viewed once".
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I only mention scrying because it's explicitly mentioned in the teleport spell as counting "having viewed once".The Scrying spell allows you "to observe a creature", and you see a small area around him/her/it. It is not guaranteed that you can recognize the location. Pathfinder has very few ways to scry a location.
As you can guess, I strongly dislike "scry and fry", as in any coherent universe people will take all the possible precautions against it. So I tend to point out the limitations of that tactic even when the post is correct.
I only mention scrying because it's explicitly mentioned in the teleport spell as counting "having viewed once".The Scrying spell allows you "to observe a creature", and you see a small area around him/her/it. It is not guaranteed that you can recognize the location. Pathfinder has very few ways to scry a location.
Sure, maybe you viewed them once, but did you recognize who they were when you saw them, enough to know they are likely someone in a certain place, are they actually, etc. It's still also dubious to say you can teleport with any level of accuracy having only seen an approximately 2,000cuft of space (a 10 ft hemisphere) around the target. Any GM would be remiss to not treat this as an automatic false destination if you've seen just the corner of a room. Oh and that's if somehow they fail your scry DC of 5+[casting stat] for having no knowledge of the target.
note - in RL there are only (fungus & mold) spores in outer space as it is far too cold for any terrestrial leafy plant or multicellular organism to survive let alone the higher amount of solar and cosmic radiation.
Indeed.
We are part of Juffo-Wup.Juffo-Wup is the hot light in the darkness.
All else is unfulfilled Void.
It doesn't say scrying counts as viewing once, it says that scrying is an example of something that can count as viewing once, such as if you take the time to wait for a person to explore all parts of a room. However, only getting to see a small portion of a potentially vast room, it is perfectly valid for the GM to say "there are many rooms that look vaguely like your minimal impression of this room, roll a d20+80".
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Any GM that did that would be using a house rule. Seeing as this is the Rules Questions forum, house rules are not a valid answer.
Teleport says Scrying counts as viewing once, not Scrying counts as viewing once only if you saw a noteworthy section of the area.
That is not what it says. it says:
1) "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. The clearer your mental image, the more likely the teleportation works."2) “Viewed once is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic such as scrying."
If your scrying doesn't fulfill 1) you can't teleport.
As a further point, it is scrying, with a non-capitalized initial. It is not the spell, it is the act of scrying through magical means, be it Scrying, Clairvoyance, a Mirror of Mental Prowress, or other means.
If you see my study with Scrying and you don't know where it is located, you can't teleport in it.
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Any GM that did that would be using a house rule. Seeing as this is the Rules Questions forum, house rules are not a valid answer.
Teleport says Scrying counts as viewing once, not Scrying counts as viewing once only if you saw a noteworthy section of the area.
That is not what it says. it says:
1) "You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination. The clearer your mental image, the more likely the teleportation works."
2) “Viewed once is a place that you have seen once, possibly using magic such as scrying."If your scrying doesn't fulfill 1) you can't teleport.
As a further point, it is scrying, with a non-capitalized initial. It is not the spell, it is the act of scrying through magical means, be it Scrying, Clairvoyance, a Mirror of Mental Prowress, or other means.
If you see my study with Scrying and you don't know where it is located, you can't teleport in it.
I would allow you to teleport but there'd be a very high chance of a wrong destination and getting a similar but incorrect study.
As you can guess, I strongly dislike "scry and fry", as in any coherent universe people will take all the possible precautions against it. So I tend to point out the limitations of that tactic even when the post is correct.I only mention scrying because it's explicitly mentioned in the teleport spell as counting "having viewed once".The Scrying spell allows you "to observe a creature", and you see a small area around him/her/it. It is not guaranteed that you can recognize the location. Pathfinder has very few ways to scry a location.
I agree with you, and I in my personal games I change the rules around scrying/viewing and teleport to make it difficult. I also have at times made rules that various specific materials (such as a gold circle, or really any enclosed shape of gold prevents teleporting into it, or even varying thicknesses of any material). So that dungeons made sense as well as many other vaults without having to result to same crazy battle of escalating magic spells trying to counter teleport.
But all of that isn't in the base rules of the game.
And the poster after you went on to talk about reasons why it shouldn't work. But the rules do make it clear that view once via scrying works enough to try. Even if we all agree it's bad for the game.
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As you can guess, I strongly dislike "scry and fry", as in any coherent universe people will take all the possible precautions against it. So I tend to point out the limitations of that tactic even when the post is correct.I only mention scrying because it's explicitly mentioned in the teleport spell as counting "having viewed once".The Scrying spell allows you "to observe a creature", and you see a small area around him/her/it. It is not guaranteed that you can recognize the location. Pathfinder has very few ways to scry a location.
I agree with you, and I in my personal games I change the rules around scrying/viewing and teleport to make it difficult. I also have at times made rules that various specific materials (such as a gold circle, or really any enclosed shape of gold prevents teleporting into it, or even varying thicknesses of any material). So that dungeons made sense as well as many other vaults without having to result to same crazy battle of escalating magic spells trying to counter teleport.
But all of that isn't in the base rules of the game.
And the poster after you went on to talk about reasons why it shouldn't work. But the rules do make it clear that view once via scrying works enough to try. Even if we all agree it's bad for the game.
Actually, it was spelled out in Ultimate Intrigue:
Scrying: The most important thing to remember about scrying is that it must scry a creature. It is not able to scry a location. Erroneously allowing the spell to scry a location is a common mistake. The caster needs to buy a reusable 1,000 gp mirror and then spend an hour to see and hear a small area around a creature (only 10 feet in all directions, but with magically enhanced senses for vision). This lasts for 1 minute per level, and the sensor moves with the creature with a 150-foot speed. Creatures are able to notice scrying’s effect as they would with other scrying sensors, requiring a successful DC 24 Perception check. There’s good news for the target, however. First of all, those observed targets can automatically detect (and possibly uncover the source of ) the spell via the 24-hour-duration detect scrying spell. Even without that spell at their disposal, the target receives a Will saving throw and spell resistance (if applicable) to avoid the attempt (and a failed attempt prevents another from that caster for 24 hours). Not only that, unless the target and caster have met before, chances are that the target also gains at least a +3 bonus on the saving throw (from secondhand knowledge and a picture, which is the best the PCs can usually hope to have). Scrying can be enormously useful for a spy, if the circumstances all align well for the scryer, but it isn’t particularly useful on its own for a potential teleport. The 10-foot-radius visual requires the target to move in order to provide a clear idea of the layout of the destination, and the spell doesn’t directly indicate the location. The PCs must use contextual clues to figure this out, unless they already know where the target is.
There is some further material in the Shackles Pirates AP. If you scry a moving ship, even if you know its location when you scry it, you have a short window of time for the Teleport, as the ship is moving and even a small change of the location makes your destination invalid.
Knowing the look of an item, especially one as small as a coin isn't enough, you need to know the layout of the area, were are the trees, is there a hill, what about jutting rocks, and having any of this conceptually vague or even wrong massively increases the chances of "bad stuff" happening.
... and having any of this conceptually vague or even wrong massively increases the chances of "bad stuff" happening.The part about a token being insufficient is an opinion as clearly there is some GM chat beforehand in a Home Game.
The part about a token being useful at all is an entirely a homebrew idea and not at all supported by the rules. A pretty odd additional statement coming from the guy who has a hardon for RAW.
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Azothath idea is like changing the guidance system of a drone from a GPS to one homing on a radio signal.
The first allows you to reach a designated location, and the second to reach a target without knowing the location.
Surely non-RAW, but it can be interesting in an intrigue game, where the adventure becomes getting the token to the right destination.
Idk, I've been told *by you* to cool it with the advice in a basically settled debate fairly often. That is basically my entire observation: that I assumed you were thus not offering advice and supposing an actual rules interpretation.
(Sorry if that came across as me trying to be rude.)