Bringer of Stories Presents GURPS: A Space Opera

Game Master ZenFox42

Jean, those skills look great. I'll allow you to change the specifics (the items in parentheses) of *any* of them in the near future, as things are about to change completely...

I looked at the ESP power and it is pretty expensive. It will take a lot of points to get just the power needed to be able to use it at a distance. She could do emotion sense for relatively cheap. But using ESP as a translation assist would probably take a dedicated character.

I'm more inclined to put the five points into picking up some useful ship control skills. Anything intelligence based would be fairly doable or she could pick up a couple of skills at lower levels. What skills would be needed at present?

Well, I would say Piloting and Gunner would be the two main ones, but they are both DX-based. However, with 13 points total, you could probably get to be pretty good at them.

Regarding ESP, it wouldn't have to be at a distance, just far enough to reach whoever you're talking to right in front of you. But FWIW, I have the translation thing covered if you're more interested in ship-based skills.

We should also have plenty of coverage on piloting and gunner...

I'm using the 5 general points to downgrade my enemy.

The 8 ship points are going into:

Pilot Battlesuit (1)
Armoury (Battlesuit) 1
Electronics Repair (Computers) 2
ER (Communications) 1
ER (Sensors) 1
Mechanic (Life Support) 2

I'll happily swap a couple of these to fit a role better.

I'm also adding a sheet to the ship doc for everyone to look at, feel free to suggest any additions, and I'll try to get everyone else listed as well. Google doc

On a side note, the Turing is not legal according to the build rules. Up to the group to just keep it as is and call it a day.

Or we rebuild it according to the rules, which will either make it less capable, or much bigger/costlier.

Low Performance craft would be the Turing, high-performance would be fighters, or possibly shuttles with high acc.

April needs to select high or low piloting, I'm assuming low for now.
April also needs to select specializations for guns and gunner.

Jean has some engineering skills which can be used to default to mechanic for repairs.

As you can see, there are a lot of skills to spread across 4 characters, even without trying to add redundency.

Since we have opted to spend less time with ship stuff and more time with away-team stuff, maybe we should look at using some wildcard skills. Wildcard skills cover larger groups of skills, cna't have defaults, are very hard, and cost 3x.

We could all just take wildcard:Spaceship and use that for any roll needed, or break it down into a couple of categories:

Wildcard:Spaceship Bridge (any skill used to pilot, electronic operation comms, sensors, etc)
wildcard:Spaceship Systems (any mechanic/electronic repair skill)
wildcard:Spaceship Operations (catch-all for anything not covered by the other two, like cargo handling, stewarding passengers, cooking, shuttle operation, etc)

Oh, yeah. Low piloting is better for me.

ALL - I hate to foreshadow, but there are some major changes coming regarding your ship-based skills (to get the game on its new track). So please feel free to *tentatively* select some new skills, and either be prepared to shuffle a few existing ones out and a few new ones in, *or* save a few of the 8 points for later...

Aster - I'd never heard of Wildcard skills before, let me look into them and get back to you.

FWIW, Bringer told us as much that he "fudged" on creating the Turing (but not as much as you might think, given that a large part of the ship is TL 7 stuff, which costs 1/1000 the listed price, and then everything was 1/2 off for being "used"). And there's no need to rebuild her.

Jean - following Bringer's rule of "divide by 10 for every TL lower than current" (which I can't confirm anywhere on the GURP's boards), a TL 9 battlesuit would cost 9000 new, and 4500 used. A TL 10 battlesuit, OTOH, would cost 90,000 new, and 45,000 used.

But at Legality Class 1, they're hard to come by - does anyone have Scrounging or Streetwise?

April - how would your *manufacturing* the parts for a battlesuit work according to the rules?

Wildcard skills are discussed at the beginning of the skill section of the basic book (pg 175).

Building a battlesuit would require Armoury/Battlesuit (TL)

Also keep in mind that many of the mechanic/EOps skills are tech level based. So if we have TL 10 skill and are flying a TL 7 ship, that actually imparts a penalty (-5!) to the skill roll. If you are using a TL 9 battlesuit, make sure you note TL 9 battlesuit skill. (How many of you know how to drive a stick shift? Can cook without a microwave? Know how to hook up a horse and buggy? Know how to use punch cards for computers? Load a blunderbuss correctly?) Using the Wildcard skills would be one way of just hand-waving this issue.

The campaign book has building rules, look for gadgeteering.

I've got Streetwise. The plan was to invest some free time and some amount of moneys in order to get one to a TL10 level, whether it starts as one or not, and later customise it to his specifications.

Alternatively, as Jean is a bit of a genius, he might be able to fabricate one from scratch, though materials and time would likely be higher, and inventing rolls will be required. I've looked at the gadgeteering rules, and also did a head-wrapping post earlier on in the discussion page.

And of course I know how to drive stick, I'm a European! ^^

The problem with Wildcard skills is they cost 24 points just to have *one* skill *at* your IQ or DX level (which seems like a reasonable target). It would mean a major revision of every PC in order to come up with those points, and I'm not inclined to award every PC another 16 points just to get it.

While I understand the reasoning behind having a penalty for using TL stuff below your own for weapons, *unfamiliar* equipment, etc., I don't think the fact that the control room (bridge) is rated at TL 7 means that the PC's aren't *familiar* with how it works even tho they're TL 10. So, no penalties for working with the ship's systems, whatever their TL.

Manufacturing:
Actually, no; armory doesn't let you manufacture stuff at all. Do you want a full battlesuit, or just a basic robotic exoskeleton? (Because the first is (Battlesuit), but the second can use (Robotics)). I have Machinist and Mechanic (Robotics), which can be used to build large parts/tools etc. and repair robots, but the skill you need to actually design and build a battlesuit from scratch is Engineering (Battlesuit) or Engineering (Robotics).

That said, I can use Machinist (and my cutting-edge robotic assembly autofac) to manufacture some basic Engineering tools, and download he software package to engineer a battle suit. It would just take a really long time to build.

April - Jean has Engineering(Robotics), so that's not a problem. You can produce materials to his specifications.

Jean - some questions (please keep in mind, I've got a copy of the New Inventions rules on the way, but have not read them yet) :

So in your lengthy post on inventing, you turned a TL 9 Space Armor into a nominally TL 9 Battlesuit (but with TL 10 specs, excluding DR), which costed 52,000 credits. Wouldn't it be much easier and less expensive to turn a TL 9 Battlesuit into a TL 10 Battlesuit (but see below about changing TL)? But as far as I can tell, that would still involve the entire Inventing process.

And, where did you get the 1 BP ( = Build Point = Character Point, I assume) = 375 credits conversion? According to the Wealth rules, 1 point = 10% of starting wealth, or 5000 credits.

In addition, if the end result is a device with TL 10 specs, isn't it truly a TL 10 device? Or is there something in the inventing rules about increasing a device's TL?

And while I don't see a need to build a prototype *and* a final version, I do have a problem with a single person making all those mods in d4 *days* - I might change that to weeks (after I've read the rules).

From the GURPS basic, under Armoury:
"This is the ability to build, modify, and repair a specific class of weapons or armor. (It does not include skill at design; for that, see Engineer, p. 190.)
Battlesuits: All kinds of powered armor, along with any built-in weaponry."

SO yeah, Armoury is the skill to build a battlesuit. Engineering is the skill to design a new battlesuit.

If the plans for a battlesuit weren't available, someone with Armoury would need to find an engineer to design it, or they could try it themselves but at -6 (from the defaults of other engineering skills.

Now Engineering says:
"This is the ability to design and build technological devices and systems.
Note that engineers are designers and inventors; they are not necessarily skilled at the routine operation or maintenance of the things they design! For instance, Engineer (Small Arms) lets you design a new assault rifle, but you need Armoury skill to maintain it and Guns skill to shoot it."

So an Engineer could design and prototype a battlesuit, but and here there does seem to be some overlap, the building of the suit would likely be at the -4 default for Armoury.

Typically it is Engineer/Mechanic that are the two skills needed to design and then build/repair.

Armoury has some overlap in that in some cases it can take the place of engineer or mechanic, but only in relation to armor and some weapon systems.

Being an engineer that tries to build something definitely seems the easier option as Armoury defaults to engineer at -4 while engineer would default to armoury at -6.

GURPS basic says Engineering is "the ability to design and build technological devices and systems." I guess it's just kinda an overlap that they didn't think about. Whether you're treating a battlesuit as an armor or vehicle, etc. (which might depend on its size).

fnord - thanks for the clarifying summary. Seeing as Jean has Armory(Battlesuit), Engineer(Robotics), and Mechanic(Robotics), I don't think he'll have a problem.

Jean - now that I've seen the Invention rules, I don't know where you came up with the conversion of the improvements as Advantages into credits (and why you treated DR directly as credits). Can you please clarify?

The Invention rules say that "each attempt to produce a prototype has a cost equal to the retail price of the item being built". So *creating* a TL 10 Battlesuit from scratch would still cost as much as buying the Battlesuit new.

There are *no* rules for *modifying* equipment, but even if we say that each attempt to make a prototype has a cost equal to the difference between the original and final versions, you're still paying *almost* full price for the final product (only because you paid 1/10 the listed price for a TL 9 Battlesuit).

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying the rules don't cover modifications. I like the idea of representing the modifications as Advantages, but the RAW as I understand them would end up making the modifications cost TEN TIMES as much as a TL 10 Battlesuit!

ALL - any ideas?

Scrounging would let him collect materials to use in place of cash.

The whole character point / vs cash question comes up a lot.

Way I've started looking at is, if it's something that can generally be purchased off the rack, or is generally available in the world, in game acquisition with cash should be okay. If you want it to be special in some way (like a man sized rail gun without a truck sized power pack) then you probably should be paying CP for something that is "super".

If a TL 10 armor has DR 30, then someone should be able to make something similar with cash and be limited at DR 30, maybe a little bit more under the prototype rules. But if they want DR 60, they should probably be investing some CP since they are now looking at something beyond the scope of the TL.

This does favor the wealthy. But let's face it, cash talks. I certainly don't have enough to buy an armored car. But I could start scrounging metal and bolting it to my truck to make some armor with little cash. If I was rich, I could just order an armored F350.

Since TL 10 armor does exist, then maybe we can look at getting some scrounging going to start collecting stuff. Maybe see about buying or stealing some blueprints.

I'd like to suggest that:

1) The ship is a plot device. We don't have to spend points on it right now. Later we can spend cash or CP to start upgrading it. CP would be for adding stuff that is a little beyond what is generally available (alien tech drive, prototype mass converter, etc)

2) We pick and define roles and modify as needed to be able to fit that role Everyone picks a primary and secondary. Pilot, Engineer/Mechanic, Gunner, Medic, Cargo/Passenger. Either that, or modify the ship to have a higher automation rate for repairs/maintenance. Or assume NPC's that take care of the ship, allowing the players to focus on being the away team.

If you have access to the space books, look at the templates in Space or Traveller. The deckhand, engineer, bridge officer are all good places to look as a start.

I have spent the experience points as follows:
Points spent are in square brackets

Ship Related Skills:
Added:
Astronomy/TL 10: 11 [2]
Navigation/TL 10: 13 [4]
Spacer/TL 10: 12 [1]
Increased
Mathematics (Applied) from 10 to 11 [1]

I realized I had not deducted the -10% limitation for psionics power modifiers. This gave her an extra 9 points to spend.

She now has the following psionic powers"
Telereceive 3
Telesend 3
Limitations: Useable just 1 time per day for 1 minute -40
Unreliable: Activation Number 8 -40%
Total cost = 63 - 50 = 13

Skills:
Telereceive: 10 [1]
Telesend: 10 [1]

I found I was 1 point short so I hope it is all right that I lowered on other psionic skill by 1 point (Anesthetic).

The level 3 gives a normal range of 1 yard. If she can touch the target, it gives her a +1 skill bonus and if she can touch skin (or chitin or whatever) she gets another +1. The other limitations and relatively low skill means it won't work all the time, but it is a start.

The Spacer skill is a crewman type skill, giving her ability to do various routine things within the ship.

The navigation and astronomy skills may be redundant with other PCs, but they would make the most sense for her. I assume she has been studying these skills for some time, partly just to have something to do on the longer travel stints.

I don't think any of us actually have navigation skills? Hmm. Sounds like you found a good amount of new utility.

I think the way I approached it was with quadratic equations, where I compared the Space Armour and the Battlesuit, then divided the advantages by the cost difference.

Although, for simplicity's sake, I think trying to get a TL9, used or otherwise, and making some rolls and paying to get a TL10 one, in effect, can be the way to go. So paying for a TL9, making rolls, and then getting essentially a non-used one, for the cost of a used one. Sounds fair? In the future, if and when it will be customised, we can talk about that there.

Good thinking on the Navigation skills.

Half-cost for a like-new item sounds fair.

Great!

Good news, I've got the nets back in order, and the weather's getting even worse, so I'll have plenty of time to post in the next couple of days!

I suggest we go and investigate whether or not the offer of Earthgov is fair first. They do appear to have us tracked, so we can either try and be really sneaky, or be really, really loud, and draw a lot of attention, so that the civilian population that's heard of us, knows who we are.

First option will require us to go somewhere with Earth connections (places that the GM might suggest), and accessing both public and governmental information, the latter would require us to show up to Earth, and announce ourselves. It appears that Earthgov and Marsgov are working together, so if we show up on Mars, they might present us with the reward, whatever it is. And also draw a some enemies.

I don't have a strong opinion on either option, but Jean will probably be conflicted about going to Mars, as his Enemy is following him, and operates there. We could also possibly go towards the Moon, and another port there, where we'll possibly be treated like heroes.

It all depends on what we all want to do, but I think the GM has ideas on that, and we can possibly talk and see what the Admiral thinks on the whole matter.

Thoughts?

I've been rather busy with work, but I'll post this afternoon.

The captain rations, yes. Good food and celebration must go hand in hand!

5 Interesting Things, with spoilers from the Ultra-Tech book.

A TL10 Missile launcher. Either an anti-infantry one or an anti-vehicle one would work. It's a last-resort thing, but a surprising one to pull out, and Jean certainly has the skills required to fab missiles.

And finally, it might be a bit of kicking the ball back to your court, GM, but I think some sort of interest-piquing cybernetic implant of some sort would be cool.

I know some of the items are a bit on the powerful side, but I was thinking about things that might be found in a place where illegal items might be acquired. If I've overstepped the shopping boundaries, I'd accept that.

I believe the computer monitor equipment may be outdated. We still had CRT screens when ultra tech was written and TEMPEST gear was used by NSA.

Ha! I did post something I didn't read, straight out of the book. Shame on me!

I might've let my curiousity take the better of me, so I'll wait on the GM's judgement on that. And I am all for setting sail into the great black yonder ASAP as well, so we can possibly skip over the celebratory dinner, and just go, unless the GM has something planned about leaving.

So, would Earth or Mars be closer by? What sort of ports would be around us?

I had envisioned this shop as more of a "used goods" store rather than a black-market store, so no missile launchers, sorry. And even tho psionics is common in humans, I don't think they can replicate its results with machinery. I'm going to allow the computer monitoring equipment, because keyboards always create signals, and it won't work with TL 10 equipment.

The pirate base is located inside Ceres, one of Mars' moons, so Mars is definitely closer.

The largest spaceport on Mars is Marsport, located just outside of the capitol city of Mars, Romulus. That's where the heads of the planet's government reside. There are smaller spaceports near the larger colonies, and it's even rumored that there are a few spaceports run by pirates, far from the civilized colonies.

The head of EarthGov is in Bejing, China, which has turned it into a truly multi-cultural city. The spaceport nearest it is called Hangtian.

I think the missile launcher was a bit of a stretch, but, hey! You never know. I suppose I should've asked whether or not the psi-tech was a thing, first.

The computer monitoring equipment is a decent buy, even despite it only working on lower TL technologies.

I suggest we go to Mars, find out more about the reward suggested (maybe with a lawyer?), looking for work in the meanwhile. Any objections?

Right after character creation, I had about 38000 credits. We were discussing pooling our credits to purchase the ship, but after that, I lost track of how much of the pool money was spent and how much therefore was left over if anything. I also don't have a clear idea of what money might have changed hands due to the bets, so I'm completely unclear as to how much Rix might have to spend.

If anyone can fill in the amount spent on the ship and how much was left over, divided appropriately, plus how much was gained by the betting, I'll work it all out for myself.

But if the GM wants to just specify something reasonable to be getting on with, that would be fine for me as well. Rix doesn't have a long wish list, but I should look over some of the things that she might do well to add to her list.

From Dec 8 : "Regarding money, we all pooled our left over money and had about $283,000. Then we spent $172,000 on upgrades to the Turing, leaving us with about $111,000 in our "group account" right now."

I'd expect the left over would remain "ship funds" for fuel, food, docking fees, etc.

(Speaking as Terra) Seeing as we put in *all* our various amounts of money into the group pool, I'd have no problem with individuals taking some back out to pay for personal expenses.

(Speaking as DM) Rix - if I recall correctly, only Jean bet 3000 credits in general, and 500 to the spectator sitting next to him, so he's the only one who won any cash. If anyone can point me to a post where they made a bet, please do so.

Quick question for everyone - do you want to role-play the getting all the way to Earthgov, or do you want me to fast-track a narrative to get you there?

Mix?

We've got a bit of RP here on Mars, then how long to Earth?

I figure travel time would be a good way to have some intra-party socialization, which may be just a post or two, or depending on the level of involvement, several posts.

Depending on how many days/weeks it takes to travel around the solar system, that time can be divided into general ship duties (watches/maintenance/etc) and personal time. Which would be a good way for people to track personal study for extra CP.

For me, it depends on what role the visit to earth will play. If it's just tying up loose ends and perhaps a way to get some extra credits into our hands, we don't need to role play too much, just the official ceremony, the crowds straining to get a glimpse of the heroes, the celebrities, the parties, .... or not. If the GM wants to introduce some important NPCs, influence our choice of next adventures, etc., that would need some RP and could be a fun way to proceed, if the GM wants to set that sort of thing up.

For me, though, the fun will really start when we are approaching our first discovery or our first emergency or threat.

Oh! Really sorry, GM!

I think that a couple of IC posts would be best, and then we get to Earth, which is what I've been doing!

I agree with madame docteur about the real fun!

Oh! Sorry, I tend to pop in and out of this game, since my character isn't much of a conversationalist. I can work on being more consistent.

The thing I posted takes time during the break, so Jean has time for comms tomfoolery (commfoolery?). There'll also be an Savoir-Faire roll for when it is time to address the crowds below. And possibly a Public Speaking one, for writing an inspiring speech. And they told me, those skills are useless, you'll never need them. Who's laughing now!

I'm currently out, but I'll get something later today or early tomorrow!

wow, surprised at the lax security. Aster carefully tries not to draw attention to the side arm no one asked him to leave behind.

I didn't see that you'd decided one way or the other, so I assumed you didn't wear it. If you had, it would have been taken away from you once you got in the limo, with a promise of its return at an appropriate time.

He would have looked to the others for guidance and likely left it behind.

He would have tried to bring a leatherman along though.

As you get into the limo, a guard looking at a hand-held tablet motions to the other guard, who pats you down and finds it. After they both inspect it carefully, if it has *any* blades in it (which most of them do), one of them says "Sorry, buddy, nothing with edges while you're with the President. You'll get it back once you leave the mansion".

Can I keep my pencil? This long solid object with a pointy end?

Don't you love the idiocy of our modern "security".

I can, and do, routinely carry a rotring mechanical pencil onto airplanes, court rooms, etc.

But I can't carry a 1.5 inch folding pocket knife.

Umm, why isn't there stealth?

From a strict "real hard science" approach we could state there is no stealth due to heat energy (infrared) not to mention the exhaust trail from fission/fusion engines. However, this would also mean no pirates, space combat would be drastically changed, no secret bases, no sneak attacks. So in our game, the pirates wouldn't have a secret base. They wouldn't be pirates for long since as soon as the first distress signal was broadcast, every ship in the solar system could turn its sensors to the pirate ship and follow it where ever it went.

So, unless we are going to do a major rewrite and turn space into a very boring place, there must be some form of "stealth".

Spaceships lists stealth hull options as TL 8.
And dynamic chameleon as TL 10.

I'm very interested in continuing to play this game.

But I am having a hard time with some of the hand-waving.

It doesn't make a lot of sense for a world government to send a bunch of misfits to engage in what would likely be one of the most historic moments in human history, meeting an alien race. Especially when said humans have no training in diplomacy, politics, culture, etc.

I kinda keep coming back to "why us?"

Ok, so yesterday I searched the Spaceships manual for "Stealth", and found Cloaking, which was rated as "superscience", and I quit looking.

I'm perfectly willing to allow ordinary "Stealth" and dynamic chameleon options in this world...er, universe. And I've added ordinary Stealth to your new ship.

I *did* say when I took over that there would be "a few initial heavy-handed plot changes" in order for us to get on the new track that y'all wanted (exploring new worlds, meeting aliens, and looking for artifacts). Unfortunately, this scenario was the best I could come up with (believe me, it's far better than the one where the *pirates* gave you a ship for free!). Maybe I shouldn't have had the government discover *intelligent* radio signals, but I wanted a reason for you to go "that-a-way" (and a reason for a translator to already exist, and a reason for them to *give* you a FTL ship, etc.). I apologize if it feels forced, but I was trying to cover a lot of bases.

I considered adding a government employee into the crew to handle the diplomacy, but realistically he would also probably be "in charge", making the big decisions and ordering you around, so ultimately I decided against it. Besides, Jean has plenty of diplomacy-based skills, which I'm sure the government recognizes by now. ;)

Please hang on a little longer - once you take off, the hand-waving will stop.

I've no problem with a re-write, though the ship I "inherited" could have worked too, but I think the old GM didn't like that idea, and quite frankly the Turing is way off the charts compared to Spaceships.

If you're open to plot suggestions.

Go ahead and assign the in-charge diplomat. The new-fangled experimental warp drive goes 'pop' on arrival. The stick up his back side holier-than-thou pansy-panted diplomat didn't have his vacc-suit or helmet on when coming out of warp. Oops, guess we're on our own. Now just to finagle the parts we need to fix the ship.

Since this is something of a hush-hush anyway, they uploaded a brain-scan of a diplomat that can't leave the public view. Said AI shares some space with our resident AI.

It might be a good idea to consider a larger ship. Leave the crew "undefined" should a PC get shot up, then a crew can come into the lime-light and step up. If we decide to open to other players, then a previously unimportant crewman has been given a red-shirt and told to join the away team.

Keep in mind, technically, it would be a prudent requirement to leave someone guarding the ship, if we only have PC's on board we'd either be making a bad choice of leaving our ship unattended for the away mission, or splitting the group. And that didn't go well last time, just ask the doc.

We're all playing this together, no reason we can't all collaborate on fleshing out the world we're playing in.

I don't know if you ever looked at the ships I designed earlier?

The 3000 ton ship would actually be pretty ideal for this type of endeavor. I've gone back over it and redesigned it assuming it was purpose built for a long-range exploration type mission (more self-sufficiency). Here's a link to the file for the Serene Falcon.

After looking at the systems that should be on an exploration ship, I realized I'd have to up the size of the ship to SM+10. This is because it would make sense that a ship designed and built for exploration would need to have more systems. This meant that I needed to reduce the number of spaces used for cargo/habitat which required an increase in hull size.

So the 10,000 ton explorer has cabins for 30 people single, 60 doubled. Accel's at .5g, several labs and a full size fabricator, a hanger bay for a trio of shuttles (100t), and a little over a year's worth of food. For defense the ship mounts a single turret with a missile launcher and a particle beam. Two of the shuttles would also be armed for auxillary support, the third would be configured as a hauler.

If you want to stick with the 3000 ton ship, it reduces the capacity to 10 single occupancy cabins that could be doubled up. This could be increased as these were designed with full life support. This ship is also capable of .5g accel, however the hanger bay holds a single 100 ton armed shuttle. Like its bigger brother, this ship has one turret with a single missile launcher and particle beam.

I also included the armed 100 ton shuttle.