Racial traits are can be divided into those that are biologically part of the race and those that arise from socio-cultural environment in which the race dwells. It would be a useful roleplaying aid to separate the two and with Game Master’s permission to enable a player to make a character from a race that grew up with members of another race and have the experience affect his character mechanically.
Let’s look at what features in each race would fall under what category:
Dwarves
Inherent Features:
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
Medium
Slow and Steady
Darkvision 60 feet
Keen Senses
Hearty
Stability
Unclear Features:
Stonecunning
Learned Features:
Greed
Weapon Familiarity
Hatred
Defensive Training
Languages
Favored Class
Elves
Inherent Features:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution
Medium
Normal Speed
Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses
Elven Immunities
Unclear Features:
Elven Magic
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Gnomes
Inherent Features:
+2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
Small
Slow Speed
Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses
Gnome Magic
Illusion Resistant
Unclear Features:
Obsessive
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Hatred
Defensive Training
Languages
Favored Class
Half-Elves
Inherent Features:
+2 to one ability score
Medium
Normal Speed
Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses
Elven Immunities
Elf Blood
Unclear Features:
Adaptability
Learned Features:
Languages
Favored Class
Half-Orcs
Inherent Features:
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence
Medium
Normal Speed
Darkvision 60 feet
Orc Ferocity
Orc Blood
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Halflings
Inherent Features:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
Small
Slow Speed
Keen Senses
Halfling Luck
Unclear Features:
Sure-footed
Fearless
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Humans
Inherent Features:
+2 to one ability score
Medium
Normal Speed
Unclear Features
Bonus Feat
Skilled
Learned Features:
Weapon Training
Languages
Favored Class
Terms Used:
Inherent Features: Traits that are inseparable from the race
Learned Features: Traits that are acquired from the social millieu typical for the race
Unclear Features: Traits that could fit under either inherent or learned features and thus could be assigned to one or the other depending on balance-needs
There are two basic ways to elicit a split between Inherent and Learned racial features:
1) Simple
2) Complex
1) Simple Approach:
This takes advantage of the fact that several categories of “Learned Traits” and “Inherent Traits” repeat each other across races. It, therefore, assumes that all features are inherent by default, except for the following, which are learned traits:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Perhaps the lack of other features that would logically be “Learned Traits” could be rationalized by requiring a mindset inherently specific to that race or something along those lines. It is not perfect, but may be a necessary compromise to avoid undue complications.
A character would normally get all racial features, but if his backround entailed spending significant amounts of time in a society of another race, he could exchange the “Learned Traits” of his race for that of the other race with Game Master’s permission.
Two points to note:
1) Humans don’t have Weapon Familiarity as a racial feature, but Weapon Training can substitute for it rather well.
2) Half-Elves also don’t have Weapon Familiarity as one of their racial abilities. They also do not have Weapon Training. The solution is either to substitute Adaptability for Weapon Familiarity in the “Learned Features” package or to give them Weapon Training as an extra feature. I would favor the latter solution, as the Half-Elven “Learned Features” would be the same as human ones and Half-Elves growing up among the Elves could then take the Elven “Learned Features” package with Game Master’s permission. Besides, Half-Elves are hardly overpowered and giving them Weapon Training is not going to overpower them either.
Racial entries using the simple system would look thusly:
Dwarves
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma
Medium
Slow and Steady
Darkvision 60 feet
Keen Senses
Hearty
Stability
Stonecunning
Greed
Hatred
Defensive Training
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Elves
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Constitution
Medium
Normal Speed
Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses
Elven Immunities
Elven Magic
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Gnomes
+2 Constitution, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
Small
Slow Speed
Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses
Gnome Magic
Illusion Resistant
Obsessive
Hatred
Defensive Training
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Half-Elves
+2 to one ability score
Medium
Normal Speed
Low-Light Vision
Keen Senses
Elven Immunities
Elf Blood
Adaptability
Learned Features:
Weapon Training
Languages
Favored Class
Half-Orcs
+2 Strength, +2 Wisdom, -2 Intelligence
Medium
Normal Speed
Darkvision 60 feet
Orc Ferocity
Orc Blood
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Halflings
Inherent Features:
+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength
Small
Slow Speed
Keen Senses
Halfling Luck
Sure-footed
Fearless
Learned Features:
Weapon Familiarity
Languages
Favored Class
Humans
+2 to one ability score
Medium
Normal Speed
Bonus Feat
Skilled
Learned Features:
Weapon Training
Languages
Favored Class
The “Learned Features” (or “Cultural Traits” or whatever they would be named) would only need to be separated from the normal racial features by one line as shown above… and then one brief paragraph would be all that would be required to explain how the swapping works if the Game Master so permits.
2) Complex Approach
As is clear from the racial table at the beginning, features other than Weapon Training, Languages and Favored Class make sense as learned or cultural traits, rather than as fixed racial traits. This approach takes that into account and is, therefore, better flavor-wise, but more problematic mechanically, as it is more difficult to balance and may require changes to some races to make it work.
I think the simple approach is reasonable enough and does what it’s supposed to sufficiently well. Yes, it does separate out some traits that would logically be learned and leaves them as ordinary racial features, but I think it is a reasonable compromise to achieve simplicity and balance. Developing the complex approach would be a more time-consuming and formidable task, which I will only take on if the general idea proves popular, but the simple approach does not cut it.
While I don't hold out much hope for this entering into the final Pathfinder rules, this concept came up when my husband and I were re-designing the core races for a homebrew. It led to some lengthy discussions on what exactly constitutes a "race", in D&D, and what sorts of abilities should belong to them. We decided they should only have inherent abilities (we reworked the way language works too, so that wasn't a problem). As I recall, we ended up deciding that certain sorts of things were inherent:
- types, subtypes, and size.
- ability score modifiers.
- vision, speed, and movement types.
- some skill bonuses, tied either to the race's physical attributes or to an ingrained racial psychology.
- similarly, most abilities that can be tied to the race's physical attributes or ingrained racial psychology. This includes things like bonuses to saves, humans' extra skill points and feat, and so forth.
- most spell-like abilities.
As far as Pathfinder's concerned, I'd like to know what its designers think a race should consist of. It would help determine if there is any merit in starting down this path (which, although it is a fun path, can be quite a long one).
While I don't hold out much hope for this entering into the final Pathfinder rules, this concept came up when my husband and I were re-designing the core races for a homebrew. It led to some lengthy discussions on what exactly constitutes a "race", in D&D, and what sorts of abilities should belong to them. We decided they should only have inherent abilities (we reworked the way language works too, so that wasn't a problem). As I recall, we ended up deciding that certain sorts of things were inherent:
- types, subtypes, and size.
- ability score modifiers.
- vision, speed, and movement types.
- some skill bonuses, tied either to the race's physical attributes or to an ingrained racial psychology.
- similarly, most abilities that can be tied to the race's physical attributes or ingrained racial psychology. This includes things like bonuses to saves, humans' extra skill points and feat, and so forth.
- most spell-like abilities.
As far as Pathfinder's concerned, I'd like to know what its designers think a race should consist of. It would help determine if there is any merit in starting down this path (which, although it is a fun path, can be quite a long one).
My initial post is rather long, but what I am essentially proposing as one of the options is simplifying the matter and making only a small number of abilities learned: Weapon Familiarity/Weapon Training, Languages and Favored Class
This would be easy to implement and would not upset balance between the races. The more complex option is much more fraught with peril in terms of balance.
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While I really like this idea, I doubt it will be adopted. So little of the discussions from Alpha were used in Beta. That jump was where I expected to see a bigger change, because Ceta to FInal should involve very little change.
I expect that what we see is the final version of Pathfinder with only a few typos and definitions cleaned up.
I, too, have tried my hand at this before, but it ended up being more trouble than it was worth and I had to abandon it. It's still something I would really like to see, but I feel as if you would have to rebuild the race system from the ground up rather than just toss things in one category or the other. That said, of the two options you have above, the I would prefer the complex version, since the simplified version seems like a lot of trouble to go to for very little effect. It would also mean that it would be very, very easy for everyone to get the Favored Class bonus, such that it would become nearly universal and thus meaningless.
Where I had the most problems with character design was cultural. How do you deal with feats that become redundant?
For example an Aztec fighter would not have access to the same weapons and amour that an Ancient Greek or a German Nobleman would.
So for the Jungle Elf (Based on Aztec culture), I ruled that they don’t get the heavy amour feat but get the dodge feat, That exotic weapons that fit culturally were common.
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Racial traits are can be divided into those that are biologically part of the race and those that arise from socio-cultural environment in which the race dwells.
The least space-intensive way to break these down, IMO, would be for there to be two sentences at the beginning of the Races chapter saying that;
Some racial traits are inherent (such as a Dwarf's slow speed) and others are cultural (his craft bonuses), and are listed Inherent first and Cultural/Learned second and in italics. Variant races introduced by the DM, or available in later sourcebooks, as well as individuals who have been raised outside of their traditional culture, may have different Cultural/Learned traits (a dwarf raised by humans would still run slower than his 'brothers,' but would not necessarily have any special skill with metalcraft).
Then just list the racial abilities under the races following that format.
Dwarf
Slow@$$ Runner
Sees Good in th' Dark
Bonus to make stuff from metal and stone
Bonus to clobber goblinoids
etc.
And then the sixth Adventure Path can introduce us to the Glacier Dwarves of the Frozen Northlands, described as;
Glacier Dwarf
Slow@$$ Runner
Sees Good in the' Dark
+X to Fort saves to avoid cold environmental conditions
run on ice and snow as normal terrain
I saw this brought up in another discussion involving the spell Reincarnate. I really like the idea, and Set's suggestion of formatting works for me.
Sure, using a different font to designate learned abilities would work as a notation.
It might be better to just say "Inherent" or "Cultural" at the end of each ability. Like:
--Elves get a +2 bonus to Perception checks. Inherent.
--Elves get some extra weapon proficiencies. Cultural.
etc. Differentiating by italics just seems a bit precarious to me, too open to minor printing errors.
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There are a couple of other threads on this very topic. I can try to link them if I can figure out how...
I think it's a good plan, really. I see as a good race building template to go like this:
Race
Attribute Adjustments
Size
Speed
Vision
Keen Senses
3 or 4 Innate Abilities
By innate, I mean abilities that exist by virtue of genetics and physiology. Everything else is basically trained or cultural in nature. I think these can be filled in with a trait system or racial feat system, or possibly even a combination of the two. The race block stays small, and you have a seperate area in the chapter for all of the other traits. Then the traits can be modified by campaign world/location. Pretty nifty, really.
Arovyn
It might be better to just say "Inherent" or "Cultural" at the end of each ability. Like:
--Elves get a +2 bonus to Perception checks. Inherent.
--Elves get some extra weapon proficiencies. Cultural.etc. Differentiating by italics just seems a bit precarious to me, too open to minor printing errors.
This would work too. Also, all the Inherent features should be at the front and the Learned traits ought to be at the back of the racial feature list.
This thread is well....simply visionary :D
All I can say is, spot on Roman!
Thank you and to all others who have contributed.
Keep it going please.
This should be part of THE core of any roleplaying game.
Piazo may not use any of this, but I intend to regardless.
Maybe they can use stuff like this to springboard a game system variant.
apologies for the double post, but no edit own post option
Skara Brae, could you post an example, details, or full copy of what you did to languages?
Please? Pretty please? With sugar and honey on it?
Maybe it reflects the reality of learning to speak a language.
It's passive, by immersion in a culture
Takes d4+4 years, regardless of culture or age in general.
At age d4+2, a human brain starts forming and reinforcing synapse chain patterns to store complex memories.
grammar school teaches literacy not speaking a language, hence the name.
Learning to speak a language is by circumstance, requires hearing it.
Each generation changes 10% of the words, by how used, what they mean, creating new ones, or never using others.
Prefer the complex option, with those of a certain type listed on the same line
Then use Learned to help form a Cultural template.
Skara Brae's list just needs the aspects allocated to the appropriate template.
8th Dwarf raises a very important point:
The lack of a core culture templates with basic options, to serve as a point of reference.
Culture templates would be easiest for Half-breed options and for anyone raised in a different community
I don't see how "Learned" makes favoured classes any easier to obtain than currently, especially as "Cultural".
For instance, each species is a sub-culture within a culture, as in Viking Dwarf and Viking Elf
The Viking Culture lists what's common, then each sub-culture lists it's specifics like favoured class
If every subculture has a common favoured class then the Culture itself lists a favoured class instead
I think a sidebar would not be big enough for the information needed.
I see two ways of approaching the subject, and neither wrong
A) creating species and variants, decribing them, and deriving templates from that.
B) creating templates and using them to create races.
probably best to do both simultaneously.
Thanks for the heads up veebles! I am indeed thinking about expanding this notion for my own home games, though it would have to wait a while as the amount of work I have at this time is rather copious.