Pedwiddle - That's fine. Any animal would be availible. If you've got a dinosaur, you'd be from some uncivilized land on the fringes of the empire.
unknown1234 - Alchemist is also not on the class list, sorry. I know it's a small list, this world probably isn't for everybody.
GM "Slaves"
Are there such things, I ask because it would seem strange for Aasimars to have them.
Woman and rolls, onyx is from one of the most noble family's but got an out from marriage and home maker, be being sent to the syndicate by the Church for having the Gift, she may have liked to be a home maker but this "honour" to the family and its name mean he HAD to go. She got the family to pull some strings to get a low official rank so she has a more ligament air to her. such contacts and power is good BUT she's locked into the family and must seek always to keep its name and reputation as well as come running when it calls.
Is in the syndicate for the "honour" of the family,she has to look her rank so I've blown about 900gp from her Rich parents trait on her syndicate own rooms with in the compound, so two servants that look after her, a horse and find looking gear, same as normal just looks nice.
Nobility costs you know.
Onyx - There are tons of slaves. The Servii make up 30-35% of the population of the Empire. They do most of the manual labor in the farms, mines and mills. They often do the skilled labor as well (physicians, scribes, tutors). Conquered foreigners are usually sold as slaves. Since the Empire is nearly constantly at war in an attempt to regain its former lands, there is a ready supply of labor. Slavery can also be administered as punishment. Slaves are considered property under Allacostan law, and have no legal personhood.
Slaves can earn money, and eventually buy their freedom. This tends to only happen for the skilled slaves, and then only after decades of work. Once freed they can become citizens, and their children remain free. A citizen cannot be enslaved except as punishment for crimes.
Aasimar might be perfect angels in the legends and sermons, but in reality they are people just like everyone else. Some are saints, but most are sinners and for them like everyone else, slavery is just the way it is. Every empire has slaves (or oil and outsourcing), they always have and always will. Without slaves to exploit there's no way to build up the army and bureaucracy necessary to maintain the empire.
That's hard to take GM, Aasimar are not in fact "people just like everyone else" they are in fact "outsiders" yes native but of the higher planes, planes that are very clear on there views of Slavery. I really do not think they would be ok with Slaves sorry, but it brakes them as a race I feel, some other kind of race yes, and I can see how your taking a new world view of this, with aliments etc. I think there could be a movement to end slaves just as there was in Rome, when it was in ended by the Church.
I'm not saying your wrong, of course not, if Drow can be rangers, then why not, its your world just seems odd is all. I would like my PC to be a sympathetic with any movement to end slavery. Seeing it as anti god, all souls are the same etc just like the real events in Rome. of course this dos not rule out serf-dom just as in the Codex Iustiniani. But I am thinking she may have her own social restraints on having slaves but not the family. Could I ask what rights slaves have?
So do they have gladiatorial games to the death? GM
I took some time and saw that (with the exception of scythe and sickle) most of the druid weapons exist in the document you linked. However, I still have a question about armor/shields. Is leather armor the only non-metal armor available? Is there such a thing as a wooden shield?
Yes, all the shields are wooden. There are other types of gear in the world, but the ones on that list are what's readily available. They are manufactured widely enough to be available for purchase. You will come across other things in your adventures.
Onyx - Yeah, of course there are people who believe slavery is wrong. It is wrong. Most of them simply call for good treatment and equal pay for slaves so that they might obtain their freedom legally. So having Onyx be anti-slavery is totally acceptable (to whatever degree).
Slaves have no rights, though murdering them for no reason is considered homicide. Yes, there are gladiatorial schools.
It may seem odd, but the all the races are just men with more or less divine/immortal blood. Mazda abandoned the world after the Great War a century and a half ago, and since then there's been no one to make sure that things stayed on the straight and narrow. He left the five laws, but in the ensuing years human nature has kicked back in. The Empire and Church are generally corrupt. The only thing they really care about is stamping out magic (not for the legitimate reason that it's dangerous) but because it represents a threat to their power. The restoration of the full Holy Empire is a goal not because it would help all of mankind, but because of greed. So just like reality, most people are generally 'good people' but power corrupts and those in power are rarely nice.
A very current American view point on the nature of Humans and power, I know it can be near on impossible some times to imagine and envisage other ways o seeing such that may be just as true. Its very interesting that you should views when looking at Romans, but one must remover we are outside looking in and the Romans themselves did not see it as simple as power/human nature and the two golden rules fighting each other.
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" V "They that have the gold make the rules"
Slaves in Rome had more rights than the conman man, owners had by law to keep them not just alive but well feed and looked after. Yes they where owned but unlike freemen they where respected as having a use and obligation, A Freeman was on his own. They had more rights than children who could be killed by there feathers.
A freeman in Rome who worked with the body's of the dead, was seen as lower than a salve.
When you say The Empire and Church are generally corrupt, that not how they where seen in Rome, they where seen as self-serving not corrupt. They looked after themselves 1st as a body politic and then as a institution. That not the same as seeking wealth for its own end. That's a very current American view. Roman power was based on complex patronage structures, wealth was not held in a bank in gold or coin, but distributed as position, trading blocs, property, and assets through out a patronage structure and the family/s that where at its head. You could not just buy power with wealth, you had to build a network, over time. In some cases this would take generations.
The family, and its patronage structure would then be courted by who ever wanted to hold power as the head of the empire. Being linked to a family meant a lot, it meant you had to respect who you meat just in case they where connected, even a slave. If you beat on some powerfull mans slave, that would be an affront to his family then Vendetta could come into play. Not good. So Im going to play it that way with Onxy, she connected but respectful, There is always some one more connected than you and its always best to be on your guard etc.
How dos this sound.
Lady Onyx Bonomo
Is an 'Dyaus-Respecti', that's is some one who will not own slaves for resins of personnel of faith, she believes at it is disrespectful to own any part of a Mazda's divine soul, even it is in but a tinny part in another being. She is happy to have slaves do things for her and feels it is up to others to decide how they respect Mazda. Her none ownership is an act of faith to Mazda.
So she has two female 'servants' not slaves, One an old cook and maid, the other a young girl, hand maiden. Both look after her Quarters in the syndicate compound wile she is on duty or away, also say pays a stable fee for her war trained Horse in the compound.
Pedwiddle - No changes needed.
"A druid can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The druid rolls 1d20 and adds her druid level and her Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result.
The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly.
To use wild empathy, the druid and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time.
A druid can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but she takes a –4 penalty on the check."
I have found a problem:
I overread that intimidate is not a skill.
The Aldori Dueling Master has Intimidate 5 and Dazzling Display as requirement. The Display Weapon Prowess and Shatter Confidence Class Features are based on intimidate too.
I'm considering now how this problem could be solved.
I have two possible proposals:
A) The simplest:
We limit intimidate to the Demoralize mechanic.
b) The complex:
We replace the intimidate theme with some other duel centered mechanism.
Maybe Acrobatics as skill and Improved Disarm as Feat.
Display Weapon Prowess could be then a bonus on Disarm Maneuvers. Shatter confidence would be difficult to rewrite. I would then limit the character to 4 levels of Aldori Dueling Master.
Option A works for me. So intimidate is still a skill, but it's only function is the demoralize option.
So far we've got the following characters:
Tiberius Cornelius Scipio - Human Fighter 1/Maneuver Master Monk 1
Rastavar Gravis - Human Ranger (Skirmisher/Falconer) 2
Onyx Bonomo - Aasimar Psion (Telepath) 2
I've seen several others express interest with various concepts, but have yet to see anything final from them.
Here's Loup, checking in with the very rough first draft of Evander Severius, aasimar psychic warrior. He's an inquisitor type, possessing a license from the Church of Mazda to hunt and kill witches and other blasphemers. I'm working on backstory and other such fluff; can I sort of create stuff myself, checking it with you of course? I'm specifically thinking he was trained with a special order of the church, a group of men and women devoted to hunting and slaying practitioners of the Dark Arts.
Yeah, I don't have much specifics on the inquisition but its basic purpose is hunting down magic users. There would be many sub-orders of priests. So yes, make up what you want and I'll work with it.
DM Jelani can I ask what using the armor as DR rules adds? Perhaps an element of realism, but in game terms it seems only to exacerbate existing problems. Two handed fighters become practically mandatory, druids and their animal companions are rendered pretty much useless against the majority of foes, archery takes a serious blow, combats become longer and more drawn out. Honestly for me it even suffers in the realism department, a dagger isn't hacking through a fighters fullplate its finding a gap, etc.
I could see some sort of combination with called shots where you can avoid the DR by targeting a none armored body part, but that seems needlessly complicated.
I'll certainly side step it with my build if I need to, but I can see it being potentially problematic in a lot of instances. Hope you don't mind me playing devil's advocate.
Realism is exactly what it adds. I've played with it in probably half a dozen games now and I haven't found it problematic. It changes the game dynamics slightly from what people are used to, but not overly so.
Lets do an example. Dude 1 is wielding a gladius with a +5 to hit against Dude 2 who has a chain shirt a 16 dex and a shield (AC 19/defense 15). We'll go three rounds with normal rules and armor as DR and compare.
Normal rules:
Dude 1
Dude 1
Dude 1
Three misses, our gladius wielding friend has done no damage.
Armor as DR rules:
Dude 1 damage
Dude 1 damage
Dude 1 damage
Three hits for a total of 5 damage after DR. Using a light weapon one handed.
====================================
In the normal rules our Dude 1 only has a 30% to hit. In armor as DR rules he has a 50% chance. Normal rules his average damage is 6.5, armor as DR rules his average damage after DR is 2.5
(.3*6.5)*100= 195 damage on average over 100 swings (Normal Rules)
(.5*2.5)*100= 125 damage on average over 100 swings (Armor as DR)
(doesn't take criticals into effect)
Lets switch his weapon to a greatsword.
(.3*11)*100= 330 damage over 100 swings
(.5*7)*100= 350 damage over 100 swings
So yes, there is a significant difference. But I think it's a realistic one. It should be harder to damage armored opponents with little weapons than with big ones. In the above example under normal rules using a two-handed weapon gives you a 169% damage advantage. In the armor as dr rules it gives you a 280% advantage.
Finding gaps in the opponents armor is what sneak attack is for. Busting through it takes brute force. Archers have clustered shots. Also keep in mind it makes magical weapons really cool. A +1 dagger goes through DR 50/Armor like butter.
Time for me to put my "old RPG'er hat on, as i have been playing for over 30 years and played just about every system going, let me offer my point of view on Combat DR TH and other systems.
lets set up a range of RPG systems from simple to complex.
Simple
Amber RPG combat (diceless system, 100% RP and a fixed PC number, warfare, the higher player wins, unless the other can RP a way out.) One number comparison and that it for combat.
Insanely Complex
Then Pendragon RPG (I could use Space-Opera but I would be hunted down by the RPG police and locked up for its hell on earth to play. You have Skill + TH + Type of Armor + DR "PER" type of damage + -TH per type of attack, and lots and lots of look up tables. Its is possible in Pendragon RPG to pull you sword, fumble and cut your own head off I kid you not. Now Greg Stafford is a good mate of mine and he knows this, but wanted to design an RPG that had knights with Realism. YIKES!
Now we could have a skip around Basic_Role-Playing and even GURPS With some of the madder books, but as a rule D&D AC system is some where in the middle.
Its sucks when it comes to modem fire arms but name me any system that that dos not suck, truth is modem fire arms kill normal humans in the real world when they hit end off.
shifting to DR its hard as DR dos miss nurf
PC1 = Dex + Light weapon + high skill
Vs
PC2 = High DR.
In DnD a PCs Skill ToHit is based on class + Level. Its the level system that dos that sorry, yes you add dex other things but if the weapon dos 1 to 8 and the DC is 9 your not getting passed it with out a crit hit, UNLESS and this is what pendragon dos, your have a weapon to get pasted it. So shooting a longbow at a knight you uses Iron pointed arrows, that cut down and even bypass the DR. In Pathfinder its Adamantium arrows, bypass hardness 20 DR/20 etc. Or you sunder the DC out the way, tahts feats. There is lastly Magic and powers that get the DC out of the way.
So Thats how I would play its, Crits or feats or special weapons or Magics/powers.
All that makes for a fun new use of old thing in pathfinder.
Just putting this up there to show you I'm still interested. I still need to finish purchasing gear and work on a backstory, but here's my (now) half-elf saurian shaman druid submission.
If you have any issues with (or suggestions for) it, please let me know.
I looked at it briefly and didn't see any issues Kyriso, I'll look again when it's finished.
RE Armor as DR: If you wanna be a high dex light weapon user in this game you are going to fall behind in the damage department unless you have something like sneak attack to make up for it. What you gain is actually being somewhat difficult to hit (dex bonus+shield). You can still have decent armor DR too (chain shirt has 4) so it ends up being a much more defensive build. I think it represents real combat better too.
Stabbing a guy in chainmail with a dagger is gonna punch through half an inch or whatever and do some damage, but unless you get a really lucky blow it's going to take several stabs to kill him. A two handed sword blow will break ribs, cause internal bleeding, grind the links into your flesh etc. A couple of them might very well be all that's needed. But if you're properly trained with the dagger (sneak attack) you can stick in his neck or eye or something and be just as effective as the sword.
Unfortunately, as a druid, I don't have a lot of options available for heavier armor, so high dex is the only real option.
For damage, my hope is that shillelagh and power attack will be able to help out on the damage front for lower levels...after that, I'm not sure. Wild shape will give me some strength, and I can buff up with some spells, but animal damage is fairly low per hit (though I'm hoping that the natural attacks with grab or trip will help out others in the group).
I have a druid in one of my other games who has a t-rex companion and his damage is right up there with the barbarian and synthesist. They're seventh level, but he shifts into a dire tiger. With him and the t-rex together they probably put out like ~80 damage on a full attack.
You could go with a high strength build and use a greatclub. Heirloom Weapon would give you proficiency with one greatclub. Remember also that large animal's natural weapons go through DR from non-magical armor. So the first few levels might be kinda s**~ty (as they usually are for casters) but you'll certainly come into your own.
GM I want to play test a feat I have never used before and see how it pans out
Hero’s Fortune (Luck)
Even at the start of your career, it was clear that you had a chance at greatness, and your legend continues to grow with every adventure.
Benefit: You gain a hero point. The maximum number of hero points you can have at any one time is increased to 5.
Normal: You can have no more than 3 hero points at one time.
Note: This feat enhances your ability to store and gain hero points. It originally appeared in the Advanced Player's Guide. See Hero Points for full details.
This means Onyx starts the game with 1 more HP and can have a max in game of 5 not 3,
.I want to use more HPs, we both know the game where they are in but never used, just to see if its of any use and gets them into play more.
Yeah, that's cool. I find it unfortunate that no one uses them in that game. The other party has used them on a few occasions. Once to cheat death, another time for an extra actions etc. I just killed someone in that party, but he withdrew from the game before it happened for RL reasons so it was kinda perfect timing.
It's getting quiet here. Kyriso, are you still working onyour backstory?
Yeah, sorry - didn't feel rushed 'cause there's quite a bit of deadline left. Still very interested, should have it knocked out soon.
Okay, done - please review and let me know if there are any corrections/modifications to be made.
GM I take it the
Aasimars family SLA are 1/day like day light etc its not clear from what I can see of your race write ups.
also I would like to take the
Alternate Racial Trait
Truespeaker There are some aasimars whose language transcends all boundaries. They gain a +2 bonus on Linguistics and Sense Motive checks, and they learn two languages each time they gain a rank in Linguistics. This racial trait replaces skilled.
Yeah, they are once per day as per the ARG race building rules. You can do that, replace the perception and sense motive abilities.
Guys, I'm considering pushing our start back date to after Christmas. I feel like some people are too busy this time of year to bust out a character and I want everyone to have a chance. What do you think? Right now the close date for recruitment is the 23rd. I'm thinking maybe push it back to the 1st.
If we close on the 23rd I'm pretty sure the party will be:
Tiberius Cornelius Scipio - Human Fighter 1/Maneuver Master Monk 1
Rastavar Gravis - Human Ranger (Skirmisher/Falconer) 2
Onyx Bonomo - Aasimar Psion (Telepath) 2
Kyriso Treesong - Saurian Shaman 2
Unless Loup Blanc finishes his Psy Warrior before the 23rd, then he could join as well. Seems like everyone else decided they probably weren't interested. Without a Vitalist or Egoist, healing is going to be tight.
how about we start meet and greet but leave Recruitment open till 1st or after or until we are full etc.
I'm fine with extending the recruitment phase, if you think it'll help.
I was hoping for five players. But we can get started with 4 if all of you are okay with it.
yep
A healer would be nice, but I'm game...
I'm ok with starting the game, but I have no problems to wait a few days.
Loup Blanc, Doomed Hero, DM Carpe are any of you planning on finishing a character?
Hello Id like to throw my hat in background soon to follow wouldve been up last night if paizo hadnt crashed and eat it but Ill get it up please look it over and let me know what you think
Cool, a fifth player. The character looks good at first glance, excited for your background.
Oh I had a question what does your lifebound trait mean on the humans?
Yeah sorta work retail and its the holidays im waiting for christmas to be over
could we start the discussion thread GM just so we can have a natter
Hey gm whats starting gold? i only started with 175...
Octavian - All the racial traits can be found here.
Lifebound
Prerequisites: A Constitution score.
Benefit: Members of this race gain a +2 racial bonus on all saving throws made to resist death effects, saving throws against negative energy effects, Fortitude saves made to remove negative levels, and Constitution checks made to stabilize if reduced to negative hit points.
Starting gold is standard for 2nd level, AKA 1000 GP.
I added a discussion thread. Just check the tab up top.
Ah well now.... readjusted Octavian working on background as we speak and buying lot more stuff haha
Hey gm all done please take a look and let me know what you think, I didn't really know how the different human factions interacted so went with a sorta general approach to it let me know if I need to fix!
I was going to close recruitment tomorrow, but we've got five good characters here so lets close it now. All of you can head over to the discussion thread. There are already a couple posts there.