Yeah, sorry. By way of excuse, this storyline is only hinted at in the adventure. I get the feeling some of Neil's words may have been edited out, but they left in the nuggets of coolness in the town descriptions. That's okay, though, having fun with a story and making it our own is one of the things we GMs should excel at! ;-)
Oh, and not just the descriptions, have a look at the maps for Heldren and Waldsby side by side. Note the layout and the locations of the storehouses, barbers, smiths, temples/chapels, general and taverns! Also the mayor's house vs the burnt out ruin of the mayor's house. In fact, if I'd marked in more of Heldren... it gets spooky.
So sorry Steve and Damien, I know that I keep interrupting the flow of the backstory with my haggling, but I need to get it in when I can. Feel free to ignore, and come back to it after. Also, since I was absent for long portions of the planning, are you going to ask him to build the boxes? Didn't think it would be right for me to steal the thunder.
No apologies necessary! We still have lots of information to uncover, and it is just as important to get the other stuff done as well. I don't think it interrupts anything.
I am glad you remembered the boxes as well... yes, we can get into that too.
Crate rules:
- Getting into a crate requires help from at least one other person.
- While in the crate, you are essentially helpless.
- Each crate has a latch that can be activated with your feet, causing the sides of the crate to open and dump the cargo onto the floor (creating a 5ft radius of difficult terrain).
- It is a full-round action to dump the cargo and remove the hatch from on top of you, after which you are still prone.
- If someone else has emptied the crate, it is a move action to open the hatch on top of you, after which you are prone and inside a box (you can still activate the latch if you like to not be inside a box).
- There is a perception DC to notice the hidden compartments, but it is both high and unknown to you. None of the PCs spotted the deception when first inspecting the crates.
Oh, and hope you liked the cut scene. I wanted to explain why the guards were in town and thought that would be a nice way to do it. Your PCs, of course, don't know about any of that - but I don't mind sharing that tidbit.
Cut scene was awesome. It was inevitable that the tower would find out about us... Was a very cool way to explain how. It's fun to see the whole story as it happens too, at least the parts that make sense to see
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I really liked the cutscene too. I thought it was a neat way to bring up the fact that they know about the adventurers, and it felt to me like one of the cross-cuts between characters in final fantasy 9. Way cool.
Yes, nice cutscene. Makes much more sense why they would be here now.
BTW, I had forgotten to choose a feat. Took extra hex (Evil Eye), maybe there's a chance to retrain at some point, if I figure out something else.
Speaking of hexes, do you think the Cackle could be flavoured to something else? Maybe chant (like Shaman's hex)? Technically it's fine (ok, not fine - it's great), but the RP aspect of spending the battle cacking feels stupid :)
Retraining is available as per UC. Just keep in mind that it's cheaper at lower levels!
As for "cackle", as with any class feature, it's just a name. Roleplay how that is done anyway you like!
Just in case you already read it - just wanted to mention that I changed the spell I wanted to cast to Shield of Faith instead of Protection from Evil.
Hopefully I am not screwing the party over (or the NPC) with my crazy ideas... feel free to tell Ishbaad he is crazy-pants and suggest other ideas!
They all sound good in my head at first... :)
I hope my last post makes sense. You've essentially got a chance at a surprise round (except Ishbaad, of course) if you take it now. If you allow them to get closer, they could detect you but you may also get into better position (right now, you'll be attacking them from the front). Really depends on how much faith your character's have in Ishbaad's ability to draw them further along the road... and your own ability to remain hidden.
Man, you guys are getting to be very effective. So glad I decided to combine these two encounters into one! You would have cake-walked them separately. As it is...
I won't feel bad about bumping any more encounters up by CR 1 anymore. Ever. :-)
Just a quick reminder to everyone - Because of Ishbaad's handy dandy Solo Tactics ability, I can take advantage of my teamwork feats with anyone, even if they don't have the feat.
ie - I can get a bonus to combat maneuvers when I am adjacent to any of my allies, and I can get a +2 to attack a target that one of you charge and successfully hit.
I realize that means I get all the fun stuff after you all do the work - but just want to make sure that you all know that when you make your tactical decisions. :)
It also means that I will be taking many more teamwork feats, if that helps your decisions as you level up, regarding their usefulness. I currently have coordinated maneuvers (from character creation) and distracting charge.
I realize I only got a 9, but do these jokers have a relatively high dex? Charging he should be at -2 AC, and I only have to hit touch. Just asking, of course...don't own the AP, so have no idea what the stats are for those guys.
You were right to check, I had you vs touch, but I had forgotten that he had charged! I'll fix it.
Texted Chris - I will post for Aoife from Ishbaad's perspective. I will spoiler rolls in case you would prefer to roll them yourself, just ignore the roll spoiler.
Thanks for that Steve, it is appreciated. However, just for future, since we still had 12 hours on the bot clock, and no-one was being held up (Kuragin and Ice Melts Quietly in Sunlight had yet to act), so I think we could have waited a little longer for Chris to post himself.
That's a different matter, of course, if Chris asked you to post for him (which he may have, it just didn't sound like it from the comment).
Yea, I tested him and didn't think he was going to be able to post when I texted him, I made sure it was ok before I did. I'll be more patient next time! Sorry!
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Please don't apologize! If you asked him, we're fine. Just wanted to make sure everyone was given the full 24 hours to post - but as always, anyone can request a bot (from me or a friend) at any time to override this!
Loving the follow up here, guys. Your first interaction with "the bad guys". I really like how the Jadwiga element is playing into things.
Also, I've consolidated the wand charges to help out. You've got 39 charges left after the 3 charges you've just used. I'm going to assume that you keep things relatively evenly spread across the two wands so that - if you need to - you can cast two CLW from the wands per round.
As a side note, I feel like we are telling people about the Black Rider too much, kinda feel like we should have kept that one closer to the vest. Now we will have to kill them. :(
Also, great GMing. How the hell did we get into a civics debate with a couple of guards? Making me rethink my political inclinations.
I love it when it gets... grey. Glad you like the tone of the discussion. I've actually had a player walk out due to the political views of my NPCs, though. I think he didn't realize that my views were not reflected in those of my characters, and that I was often quite good at debating either side of an argument.
Let's not make the same mistake as that player, hey? Not that it's getting bad yet... but you're not in Whitethrone yet, either! Scary evil there.
Once everyone is done with questions,I will post my 'wack the guards' post.
Hey guys, I don't like to do this too much, but for the sake of expediency and not penalizing you for good roleplay...
You can get to the tower tomorrow with no penalties on being found out, etc. There. I said it.
So, for RP purposes, you can go to the tower today to "beat them to the punch". If you do that, I will allow you to get back all of your daily abilities as though you had a full night's rest. Nadya's bruises are largely for RP and are nonlethal anyway, so she'll be on full HP without costing you any wand charges. She appreciates the offer, though.
Or, you can go tomorrow and prepare for another night. Entirely up to you. Just know that there will be no penalties (mechanically) either way.
Figures... thats what I get for posting in all the other games!
I want to post on this one... I might still be able to get back to it tonight.
If I don't, know I tried!
And yes, I am assuming we went with her to the bar.
Too heavy, need the weekend to come up with something.
No problems at all guys. I'm happy to give you some more time. After all, this is the big moral dilemma with invading the tower. I don't want to make it hard for you to progress the adventure, but most of you did seem interested in exploring this angle (and I quite like it too!).
FYI: The people of Irrisen primarily do not leave because they are scared of the chicken-legged huts and Baba Yaga's guardian dolls that inhabit them. The winter portal allows them to bypass that... so...
... awesome speech, Ishbaad. I will wait for others to follow up if they like. Happy to give you guys until the weekend. I've never considered (and I'm guessing neither has Neil Spicer) the possibility of leading the village in mass exodus through the portal that they might avoid the retribution of the Pale Tower. Keep it up!
Thanks! I was worried my thoughts would be jumbled and incoherent. I read and re-read, then realized I was spending probably way to much time.... So I sucked it up and posted.
I did feel like this was kind of a culmination of the moral/political dilemma here too, so I didn't want to not wanted to spend some time thinking about it. I think Kuragin's in character thoughts are spot on. At some point, you would think the witches would just retailiate somehow, no matter the level of success in the tower. That would weigh on Ishbaad's mind. It was important to him to make sure everyone knew what was going on, because in truth it is all beyond their control. Except they might be able to sneak out, just this one time... and finally have a measure of control.
Just to expand on this some more, there are some situations (like the one we've currently got) that I'd rather not leave to chance - especially when there is possible range of 1-20. I think when you spend time and effort coming up with carefully thought out speeches, and put your all into your character, that it gets devalued by resolving it with a simple roll of the dice (even taking into account circumstance bonuses for good RP).
I hope you understand that this does not make diplomacy a worthless skill. For most regular circumstances, it will still be used (eg. make a monster friendly with a bonus for good roleplay) but when it really matters, like it does now, I prefer to weigh the arguments presented and see how folk would react based on everything I know about them and what has happened so far. I do also keep your diplomacy bonuses in the back of my mind when adjudicating what NPCs do as a result of your actions.
If you just phoned it in and gave an average speech, I'd probably just straight up roll afterwards. You boys certainly didn't just phone it in!
That is awesome Damo! Yea - I've always thought the whole point of this was to tell a story, and sometimes for major plot points like this, it doesn't make sense to leave it up to a random die roll. I would think we are accomplishing the goals/solving the puzzles we were intended to solve. It does seem silly for such a core storyline to leave the direction up to random chance.
So thanks for letting us tell our part of the story! I am really excited about where this is going... This part was really fun. This is the type of thing I saw in this character when I first created him. At some point his righteous attitude will get him into trouble... but its pretty fun so far!
I have no clue if we would ever come back to waldsby when we are "finished" with this part of the story, but I love how much we have put ourselves into this town, and started to settle in a bit.
And just to seem like a total suck-up - I absolutely agree that the actual rolling of diplomacy skill should still be important. I kind of picture this like the cut scene in final fantasy - but the majority of times when the diplomacy skill is necessary is "smaller" plot points that could go either way without derailing the story.
I'll try to resolve this some more in the afternoon, but please do feel free to add any further points (or plans) you have.
Okay, so I just want to make sure I'm getting this right before I push it along...
Current plan:
- Arm the able and willing citizens of Waldsby.
- Set up in the town hall as a "f*ck you" to the baroness.
- Wait for the Pale Tower to send out its primary fighting force in retribution.
- Heroic defense of the town.
- Send those folk who wish to flee Irrisen through the Portal.
- Raid the much depleted Pale Tower (PCs only).
That's how I'm reading it for now. Seems like those cool wooden boxes aren't going to be used. Sadness.
I have been thinking about this all weekend and today....
My original thought was that the delivery of the tribute would happen after the pale tower force leaves to head to the town - which would require the townsfolk to defend by themselves.
I still want to use the boxes - mostly from a player's perspective because they are so cool.
So here is another thought that I want to put out there. I wanted to bring it here so I could hopefully explain better, then I can bring it to the gameplay thread.
- Deliver the tribute, with us inside the boxes.
- All citizens willing to fight come behind us by some reasonable time... half hour or so, however long it would take for us to get loaded into the tower and be in place like the trojan horses we are.
- Some Citizens wear the armor of the soldiers we just killed. Then when they approach the tower, they appear to be soldiers bringing prisoners back for interrogation.
- At the right time, the citizens launch an assault on the unsuspecting guards - which is also the time that the PCs break out of the boxes and begin the assault from the inside, while the main force is distracted downstairs.
- PCs goal is to eliminate the power source, kill the witch, and get back downstairs to help the citizens as soon as possible - however the last two goals may end up getting mixed in together.
My concerns with this new idea is that the citizens would be throwing themselves at a highly defensible position, and would likely be outmatched. Probably not a high survival rate. The hope would be that posing as soldiers with prisoners would allow them inside the gates at least, so they aren't crashing against the wall in a bloody wave of futility.
So give us some thoughts - Lets figure out what is best before we move on. We don't have to use the boxes - but I still really want to. Playing the part of the trojan horse just seems like so much fun!
If you want that in gameplay, let me know. I will organize my thoughts and make a "war room planning" post.
I agree with Steve there. Except maybe just having the villagers hold the entryway so we have some way to retreat without fighting our way back. And then having the townsfolk muster back at the Townhall.
Happy to have this in discussion, so long as it eventually gets discussed 'in character'.
This is sort of an odd question... what if everyone in Waldsby set out for the Winter Portal? Not that they would all go through it, but simply acted like it was their intention to flee to the southern lands? Would the witch, baroness Nazhena, care that they were leaving or would she try to stop her 'followers' from going? My point being that if baroness Nazhena did try to stop them, she would have to send a detachment of soldiers all the way to the Winter Portal, and this might be enough of a distraction for the adventurers to spring their trap without putting the townsfolk directly into danger by having them attack a fortified position.
It's just a thought, it's probably wrong :)
The baroness would have to find out somehow. The Pale Tower is quite a distance from the town itself. For the day-to-day, she probably doesn't give much of a shît about what happens to the townsfolk. She certainly wouldn't be up with the news. The fact that you were around for well over a day before the guards even came (and even then only because a villager let slip) should tell you the "care factor" for what's going on in town.
I'm not sure about the march to the Pale Tower...while it would definitely give us an element of surprise, and put things more concisely into one prolonged assault, it fails to capitalize on the divide and conquer strategy of using the Town Hall to bait the Baroness and deprive the Pale Tower of a good portion of its defenders.
I think I'm on board with Damien's outline. That's just my opinion, though. I'm just an addled old wizard. :)
How would she know the Town Hall is opened?
She probably won't, unless she has one of her doll-mirrors in there. When her tribute doesn't arrive, she will send men after it.
So we need to come up with a consensus, or at least a majority vote.
What we have figured out do far: the baroness likely won't send soldiers out for simply opening the hall or making for the portal, like I had originally assumed.
So we need to be more direct in our provocation, imo.
I still think we should go with hiding in the tribute boxes, and letting the townsfolk who want to fight secure the doorway for us. They don't need to advance into the tower.
I just want to point out also that from their comments, many of them don't want to leave, and lots of them are willing to fight.
We are kind of mixed so far on this, so I will make a post in the gameplay thread so we can make a decision and move forward.
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Good point about her not knowing...
So, we should search the hall for mirrors... failing that, see if we can find an intact mirror in town. Place it where she can see that we are in the town hall, if she is looking, and then ?
Ice Melts Quietly in Sunlight really on knows one tactic... frontal assault.
My only issue with that plan IMQIS - is that it still requires passivity - waiting for her to respond, which also gives her the opportunity to respond on her terms. (I realize this was my idea originally, but the more I think about it, the more potential pit-falls I see)
Follow my logic - Sertane the soldier leader had a small mirror with him, which we broke. We can assume the witch knows that her men met us in battle.
If we reveal ourselves to her now, she will know that we defeated her men. As it stands, she doesn't know either way.
If we get into the tower, trojan horse style, I think the citizens could be used to distract the soldiers at the main gate of the tower, allowing us to do our business of shutting the portal down and killing the witch. We can give the citizens who wish to leave enough time to make it to and through the portal before we begin our assault.
In the end, it really doesn't matter to me how we do it, I just want to agree or vote on something so we can move forward. I love RP, but we are at a point where it feels like we are spinning our wheels because we need a specific direction to move in.
We have two methods on the table.
-Town Defense Method - Originally suggested by Ishbaad, layed out by Damo above
- Trojan Horse Method - Also suggested by Ishbaad, with a good addition by Jorvik to just have the townsfolk concentrate on "holding the door" to the tower.
Unless anyone has any strong objections to both of those methods, please vote for one or the other, then we can get this party started!
The Pale Tower will [i]eventually[i] realize that ten men are missing. However, I've got an idea of how to to help with the "does she know" dilemma... watch the gameplay thread for something soon.
Also, please don't vote OOC, I'd love to have this happen in character on the main thread. After all, you're in the perfect place for such a meeting!
Someone just need to call after Aoife, if they want her to stop :)
Umm... this was just my way of giving you the town hall defense option. Only need to go there and grab the mirror if you choose the tower assault / crate method. Up to you, just saying is all...
As Nadya says, she probably isn't using the mirror yet. Also, the witches don't spend all their time looking at the mirrors the know about. Think about it more like checking for voicemail (prior to notifications, etc). The frequency goes up with paranoia, but it's not every single minute of every day.
By the way, we're nearing the end of book 1, so I've been re-reading forwards again on the APs. Ye gods I can't wait for book 4. *ahem* No spoilers, but eeeeee so excited.
Also, according to my notes, book 2 is where I finally get to start messing with some backstories to a more decent extent. Your hard work in the beginning will finally start to bear fruit! Mwa ha ha ha ha! I'm so looking forward to it that I just want to rip out parts of the adventure wholesale so we can skip ahead.
I won't, though. Too much goodness.
Anyway, just wanted to let you know that I'm so excited. Get your butts into gear and knock over the Pale Tower so we can get this dog and pony show on the road!
FYI, the next chronicle is at the end of book 2, and will be for characters of levels 5-7.