best simple weapon backup for a natural attacker


Advice


say my usual routine is to beat up bad guys with claws and bite. I'm also Strength-based, and may occasionally use Power Attack, but not necessarily every round. All well and good.

bu~uut

Sometimes there's a bad guy with DR that I'd normally have a hard time dealing with, like a werewolf or something. I could get an amulet of mighty fists +3, but that's 36000gp, which seems like a lot. Dealing with golems and angels gets even more expensive.

To deal with the latter critters, I can pack an oil of align weapon or two, plus a sling with some adamantine-blanched sling bullets.

Question
Should I pack along

a) a cold iron dagger and an alchemical silver dagger (and when I get rich enough, an adamantine dagger)?
I'll have the dagger (best simple weapon for crits, I think), plus two secondary natural attacks.

or

b) a weighted spear with a cold iron spearhead and a silver, uh, 'haft weight'?
I'm not going to invest in TWF, but it's a two-handed weapon made of the right material. Plus one secondary natural attack left over.

or

c) something else?

Bonus Rules Question
Is there a way to sheathe a spear or weighted spear? I know I could just hold the spear in one claw and switch to the other claw as a free action...but that seems kinda cheesy. Ever found any good art or a mini to explain a 'spear sheath'?


When I'm putting together Humanoid Naturual Atack Builds, I'm thinking my main class would be Warpriest. Cast Weapon Against Evil, and you are bypassing most DR. Sacred Weapon offers magic bonuses in addition to increased Base Damage.

I know I could just hold the spear in one claw and switch to the other claw as a free action...but that seems kinda cheesy.

I go cheesy. I'm thinking Longbow, and just hold it while Full Attacking with my Natural Attacks. Plus, you can have an assortment of arrows: blunt, silver, cold iron, blanched with Adamantite, so you have lots of ways of bypassing DR.

I'd say just throw the spear to free up your hand.


Yes, spears can easily have sheathes.

But they aren't easy to remove mid combat, like a sword from a sheath is.


For convenience wearing a pair of cestus would be good, same damage and crit as daggers.


Daggers are easy. Short spears work, too. If you're willing to drop a feat on it, Powerful Throwing gets STR to attack and damage with thrown weapons.

Short spears should just stick in a quiver in your back, if that's the route you take.

Either way, choose something that has ranged attacks available to add some versatility to your natural attack routine.


VoodistMonk wrote:

Daggers are easy. Short spears work, too. If you're willing to drop a feat on it, Powerful Throwing gets STR to attack and damage with thrown weapons.

Short spears should just stick in a quiver in your back, if that's the route you take.

Either way, choose something that has ranged attacks available to add some versatility to your natural attack routine.

Powerful Throwing is 3pp, so it depends where he's playing this character. The Alchemical Silver Morningstar and Cold Iron Sickle combo is always a good go-to for passing through all kinds of DR. Alternatively Alchemical Silver Kunai if you want to be able to throw it, but it will be less damage.

Silver Crusade

Sheathing a spear takes the same time/effort as sheathing the tiniest dagger that exists: a move action. If you can't sheath it because you are full attacking, just drop it on the ground as a free action.

My advice is to have multiple weapons of different materials and damage types (silver and cold-iron are super cheap), most importantly a cold-iron longspear (or two, the second being silver). You don't need a double weapon both silver and cold-iron, as you can just draw the one you need when you need it.

Your routine should be: explore the dungeon with your cold-iron longspear drawn and ready. Wait for the enemy to approach, so that it's the enemy to forgo its full attack, not you. Use your move action to reposition yourself or draw the longspear, if you hadn't already, and your standard action to buff yourself or brace against a charge. The enemy will move towards you triggering an AoO from you, that you will use to deal damage or to trip, if the enemy hasn't too many legs. Tripping flat out interrupts the enemy's action (as he's out of reach for attacking you), will give you +4 to hit on your next full attack, and a AoO from the enemy trying to get up. Remember that trip doesn't provoke AoO if you have reach and the enemy doesn't. If you readied against a charge, there's also double damage on top of that. Then you can finally drop the spear, 5ft step and full attack.


Java Man wrote:
For convenience wearing a pair of cestus would be good, same damage and crit as daggers.

I'd worry about being allowed to still make Claw Attacks while wearing Cesti


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Java Man wrote:
For convenience wearing a pair of cestus would be good, same damage and crit as daggers.
I'd worry about being allowed to still make Claw Attacks while wearing Cesti

They are descrbed as leaving the fingers "mostly exposed" and do not penalize wielding weapons in the same hand. I'd say that claw attacks should be fine.


Eventually you are going to want the Amulet of Mighty Fists +3 anyway, since as well as overcoming DR it will be improving your attack and damage for all of your attacks.

Until then, I would probably have a couple of one-handed weapons (something like a silver morningstar and a cold iron longsword) that you could choose to wield with both hands for extra damage (with power attack) if DR was a problem. No point in keeping a claw free for an attack if it isn't going to do any damage after all.


If you want to avoid looking awkward... I usually go for maces. They have a good damage type (bludgeoning), they can be 2 handed (you are str based, so that is important), and they are compact enough to easily wear on a belt. The classic medieval mace is usually only a bit more awkward to wear than a baton seen on a modern police officer.

Weighted spears are nice in terms of stats, but I always personally hated to have larger weapons like that sheathed- it always felt awkward and it is even more of a problem since you are usually using your claws (big weapons on a character that usually natural attacks usually seems like they are just hiding their main attack). Also, piercing is usually not that useful unless you encounter water or rakshasas.

I'd also carry a dagger. Unfortunately, there are no simple slashing weapons that can be 2 handed (it seems like it is some grandfathered thing from D&D 3.0 that was for balance; slashing weapons tend to have better stats). So...yknow. Sometimes you have to make do with 1 handing when dealing with zombies and the like- you lose less compared to facing the DR (at least at the low levels where this is relevant).


Hmm. Good suggestions all. I guess a two-handed weapon of the right material is more valuable than an extra natural attack which will probably do nothing.

I think what I might do is to hold onto a 'mocha twist' (or whatever) weighted spear, and drop it on round 1 if nobody else in the party yells out the name of a particular metal.

Is there a creature that has damage type and funny metal DR? Like, DR 5/slashing cold iron?

Silver Crusade

ohako wrote:
Is there a creature that has damage type and funny metal DR? Like, DR 5/slashing cold iron?

If it exists, it's very rare. Either case, just carry slashing and bludgeoing, cold-iron and silver weapons. Like a silver dagger, a cold iron dagger, a silver morningstar and a cold-iron morningstar (which you can use 2-handed).


Gray Warden wrote:
ohako wrote:
Is there a creature that has damage type and funny metal DR? Like, DR 5/slashing cold iron?
If it exists, it's very rare. Either case, just carry slashing and bludgeoing, cold-iron and silver weapons. Like a silver dagger, a cold iron dagger, a silver morningstar and a cold-iron morningstar (which you can use 2-handed).

Oh yeah... the usual suite of natural weapons (bite/claw/claw) all deal both slash and bludgeoning damage. So usually, a back up weapon is there purely for metal DR. You might grab some other natural weapons later on that lack those types, but you would likely have a high enough level to grab a +3 amulet by then.

Sorry, I was thinking about back up weapons for my usual 2 handers.

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