Does Full Attack give too much to the NPCs?


General Discussion


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I am still trying to wrap my head around some of the implicit assumptions in the Starfinder rules.

As a PC, Full Attack is usually better than a single attack but not by a huge margin. The penalty is high enough that you generally are not hitting with both attacks.

NPCs are constructed such that they usually have a better attack modifier than the PCs. A Combatant NPC of CR1 has a +8 while an Expert has +6 and it goes up from there. It also looks to me like it goes up faster than a PC's attack bonus would improve.

A few people have already noticed that recruiting an NPC to fight for your group tends to make the NPC steal the show -- they hit better and potentially harder than the main combatant PCs. Even if below CR, it is possible that they are hitting better than some of the PCs.

Something I haven't seen commented on though is what this means for NPCs using Full Attack. An NPC can Full Attack and still have an equal or better attack bonus than a PC does on a single attack. Combining this with the relatively low armor classes that PCs have you get into a situation where the NPCs are deadly if they are ever allowed to Full Attack.

How are people dealing with this?


As a PC, I invest heavily in armor and armor class. My goal isn't necessarily to never get hit, but to dodge enough attacks that the opponent is motivated to use single attacks instead of full attacks, and that I only lose stamina instead of HP. NPCs and critters tend to have very low AC themselves, so my offense can easily keep up even though I consider it a second priority.

I'm only on level 3, but so far that philosophy has worked out rather well.


I've found that my PCs in armor have AC comparable to or better than a similar level monster. So that's the trade-off. The monsters I've had full attacking have been missing or landing only a single hit, with a double hits being infrequent. Except one time where i had 4 enemies kick down a pair of doors, 2 guys made single attacks and 2 guys made full attacks. All 6 hit and destroyed the mechanic's drone. I knew there was no way a player would survive that.


Yeah. The monsters have such a good +X they should always full attack. One +18 Or two +14. No discussion
Luckily SF pcs have lots damage potential so they can take it


My biggest grip about Full Attacking is you have a lot better chance to land a crit full attacking vs a standard attack.


Full attack is one of those things that is very rarely not worth the effort if both people are in the open. Single shot really matters when that -4 is a significant percentage your accuracy (Like when it drops you from say 25% accuracy to 5%).


Maybe the designers are trying to encourage players to *not* be out in the open, unless they have a really good reason? Crit fishing means PCs have to act at least somewhat intelligently against even significantly weaker foes.


Ikiry0 wrote:
Full attack is one of those things that is very rarely not worth the effort if both people are in the open. Single shot really matters when that -4 is a significant percentage your accuracy (Like when it drops you from say 25% accuracy to 5%).

If my accuracy is only 25% I'm going to full attack every time.

While my odds of landing a hit just got a lot worse, the odds of my hit being a crit has gone way, way up.
Plus crits usually have some kind of secondary effects.


From what I've seen, enemy combatant to hit bonuses go up at EXACTLY the same rate as the maximum AC for PCs. Player maximum to-hit bonuses go up at the EXACTLY same rate as enemy combatant ACs do.

Or said another way:
When player level = enemy CR, players cap out at about 70% accuracy on single attacks (vs. NPC Combatant EAC; player attack rolls based on optimized full bab class). This is true at ALL levels.

When player level = enemy CR, combatant NPCs with attack rolls on the high end of the range have a minimum of 70% accuracy (most highly optimized PCs are hit 70% of the time with single attacks, less optimized PCs are hit more often). This is true at ALL levels.

Enemies and players benefit exactly the same amount from making full attacks assuming player optimization keeps pace with enemy stats.

Matt2VK wrote:
Ikiry0 wrote:
Full attack is one of those things that is very rarely not worth the effort if both people are in the open. Single shot really matters when that -4 is a significant percentage your accuracy (Like when it drops you from say 25% accuracy to 5%).

If my accuracy is only 25% I'm going to full attack every time.

While my odds of landing a hit just got a lot worse, the odds of my hit being a crit has gone way, way up.
Plus crits usually have some kind of secondary effects.

Unless your secondary effects are amazing, this isn't correct. See below for the calculations on average damage per round if your base damage per hit is 'X':

Single attack: (X damage)*0.25+(X damage)*0.05 = 0.3*X avg damage per round
Full attack: 2*(X damage)*0.05+2*(X damage)*0.05 = 0.2*X avg damage per round

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