Alchemaic |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
Or worded differently, what exactly does "a natural attack augmented by your claws" mean? Does the Shifter's Edge bonus apply to all natural attacks that recieve the DR bypass benefits of Shifter Claws (i.e. all of them), or does Shifter's Edge only apply to whatever natural attacks gain the damage boost from Shifter Claws (which would be whatever claws have lower damage, or two of your natural attacks)?
graystone |
graystone wrote:"Shifter's Edge only apply to whatever natural attacks gain the damage boost from Shifter Claws (which would be whatever claws have lower damage, or two of your natural attacks)"Where's that from?
Your opening post. You asked a question and I replied with the option that was correct.
EDIT: as to how I came to that conclusion, I just looked at the feat and shifter's claw side by side. It seems clear to me.
Alchemaic |
Alchemaic wrote:graystone wrote:"Shifter's Edge only apply to whatever natural attacks gain the damage boost from Shifter Claws (which would be whatever claws have lower damage, or two of your natural attacks)"Where's that from?Your opening post. You asked a question and I replied with the option that was correct.
EDIT: as to how I came to that conclusion, I just looked at the feat and shifter's claw side by side. It seems clear to me.
Ah I see. I was hoping for something that clears the actual wording up a bit, because personally I think it's worded a bit too ambiguously to say.
graystone |
graystone wrote:Ah I see. I was hoping for something that clears the actual wording up a bit, because personally I think it's worded a bit too ambiguously to say.Alchemaic wrote:graystone wrote:"Shifter's Edge only apply to whatever natural attacks gain the damage boost from Shifter Claws (which would be whatever claws have lower damage, or two of your natural attacks)"Where's that from?Your opening post. You asked a question and I replied with the option that was correct.
EDIT: as to how I came to that conclusion, I just looked at the feat and shifter's claw side by side. It seems clear to me.
Shifter’s Edge: "Whenever you use Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack with your claws or a natural attack augmented by your claws, you also add your shifter level to the damage."
Shifter Claws: "If the form does not have claw attacks, she can choose up to two natural attacks that would deal less damage than her shifter claw damage and have those attacks instead deal the same damage as her shifter claws."
Shifters claws explains what attacks it augments [claws or 2 other attacks if no claws], and shifter's edge tells you what it adds to [your claws or a natural attack augmented by your claws]. So it's your claws or two other natural attacks if no claws... IMO, it seems pretty clear.
Alchemaic |
Shifter’s Edge: "Whenever you use Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack with your claws or a natural attack augmented by your claws, you also add your shifter level to the damage."
Shifter Claws: "If the form does not have claw attacks, she can choose up to two natural attacks that would deal less damage than her shifter claw damage and have those attacks instead deal the same damage as her shifter claws."
Shifters claws explains what attacks it augments [claws or 2 other attacks if no claws], and shifter's edge tells you what it adds to [your claws or a natural attack augmented by your claws]. So it's your claws or two other natural attacks if no claws... IMO, it seems pretty clear.
The trouble is with the "augment" part. Because Shifter Claws the ability does more than improve the damage of the natural weapons, it also gives the DR bypass abilities to all natural attacks which is also augmenting those natural attacks..
graystone |
graystone wrote:The trouble is with the "augment" part. Because Shifter Claws the ability does more than improve the damage of the natural weapons, it also gives the DR bypass abilities to all natural attacks which is also augmenting those natural attacks..Shifter’s Edge: "Whenever you use Weapon Finesse to make a melee attack with your claws or a natural attack augmented by your claws, you also add your shifter level to the damage."
Shifter Claws: "If the form does not have claw attacks, she can choose up to two natural attacks that would deal less damage than her shifter claw damage and have those attacks instead deal the same damage as her shifter claws."
Shifters claws explains what attacks it augments [claws or 2 other attacks if no claws], and shifter's edge tells you what it adds to [your claws or a natural attack augmented by your claws]. So it's your claws or two other natural attacks if no claws... IMO, it seems pretty clear.
No, the feature does NOT allow ALL natural weapons bypass DR.
"At 3rd level, her claws ignore DR/cold iron and DR/silver."
"Lastly, at 19th level, the claws ignore DR/adamantine and DR/—."
Note "claws" and NOT all natural weapons. Now if it's the "her natural attacks gain the same benefits granted by her shifter claws ability" part, that's JUST the first part of the paragraph. Taken as a whole, it's is pretty clear what that means as the NEXT sentence says "If the form she takes has claw attacks..." and the NEXT says "If the form does not have claw attacks..."
So, it tells you how it affects natural attack for all cases [with or without claws]... If "her natural attacks gain the same benefits granted by her shifter claws ability" is actually meant to cover all natural attack for DR, it should say "her natural attacks ignore DR as granted by her shifter claws ability": it does what you think it did without ANY ambiguity whatsoever AND uses less words...
Alchemaic |
No, the feature does NOT allow ALL natural weapons bypass DR.
"At 3rd level, her claws ignore DR/cold iron and DR/silver."
"Lastly, at 19th level, the claws ignore DR/adamantine and DR/—."Note "claws" and NOT all natural weapons. Now if it's the "her natural attacks gain the same benefits granted by her shifter claws ability" part, that's JUST the first part of the paragraph. Taken as a whole, it's is pretty clear what that means as the NEXT sentence says "If the form she takes has claw attacks..." and the NEXT says "If the form does not have claw attacks..."
So, it tells you how it affects natural attack for all cases [with or without claws]... If "her natural attacks gain the same benefits granted by her shifter claws ability" is actually meant to cover all natural attack for DR, it should say "her natural attacks ignore DR as granted by her shifter claws ability": it does what you think it did without ANY ambiguity whatsoever AND uses less words...
Some of the writing in the book has already been shown to be questionably worded and edited, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that the class wasn't intentionally written with a class feature that's so huge of a trap that a pit trap the size of the Grand Canyon is a speck in comparison.
graystone |
Some of the writing in the book has already been shown to be questionably worded and edited, so I'm giving the benefit of the doubt here and assuming that the class wasn't intentionally written with a class feature that's so huge of a trap that a pit trap the size of the Grand Canyon is a speck in comparison.
I don't see the 'trap' in comparison to the class as a whole. 1/2 of the forms of the shifter only have 1 or 2 attacks, so how is a feature that only affects 2 attacks a detriment to them?
Secondly, you are REQUIRED to buy an Amulet of Mighty Fists anyway, as the 'trap' feature doesn't even allow you to ignore DR/magic: so what is lost by adding to your hit/damage by getting more pluses and also gaining more DR ignoring that way? If you still think it's a 'trap', you'll have to explain it to me.
Chess Pwn |
the line being missed is.
"While a shifter uses wild shape to assume her aspect’s major form, her natural attacks gain the same benefits granted by her shifter claws ability."
this is what lets the DR bypassing work for all their natural attacks.
then the claws can "replace" two natural attacks the form has.