|
You're right at the point where it's just barely going to take 2 scenarios to get enough gold. You need 16,000, and you should get around 7700 from a tier 10-11. Do you have something worth 1,000 gold you could sell to get the extra 500 or so you'll need?
Do you have trouble hitting things? If so, Holy won't help you.
Do you do enough damage to not care about DR/cold iron or silver? Holy will help you power through those against an evil creature, but not neutral. You're a fighter, so presumably you do decent damage already.
Do you have gloves of dueling? They would cost slightly less for the same +2/+2 of a +2 weapon, but they wouldn't give the ability to overcome DR.
Basically, if you do enough damage that you don't care about overcoming cold iron or silver, and you aren't having trouble hitting, then Holy would help you overcome DR/good and would do more average extra damage.
If an extra +2 to-hit means you start hitting with your second iterative, that's probably going to do more damage than holy.
I'm playing a level 10 fighter (no archetype, 1 XP away from 11) whose primary weapon right now is a +1 adamantine longsword. At the moment, he has 7737 gp to spend and I don't want to stick to a +1 longsword for much longer. Should I save up for a Holy weapon property or just go with +2 and up?
If you could post your current/proposed build and where you'd like to be and what you'd like to be doing, it would be immensely helpful for figuring out what kind of advice you need. A lvl 10 Fighter with a +1 Adamantine Longsword isn't much to go off simply due to the plethora of avenues that a lvl 10 fighter can take as far as items and enchantments.
|
I'm playing a level 10 fighter (no archetype, 1 XP away from 11) whose primary weapon right now is a +1 adamantine longsword. At the moment, he has 7737 gp to spend and I don't want to stick to a +1 longsword for much longer. Should I save up for a Holy weapon property or just go with +2 and up?If you could post your current/proposed build and where you'd like to be and what you'd like to be doing, it would be immensely helpful for figuring out what kind of advice you need. A lvl 10 Fighter with a +1 Adamantine Longsword isn't much to go off simply due to the plethora of avenues that a lvl 10 fighter can take as far as items and enchantments.
Right now, he's:
Human Fighter (No archetype)
STR 22
DEX 14
CON 18
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 7
Not counting consumables or mundane gear, his other primary items are:
+1 longsword (Bought w/ prestige. Bad idea, I know)
Masterwork cold iron longsword (Prestige)
Mithral longsword
+2 darkwood heavy shield
+1 darkwood composite (+4 STR) longbow
20 arrows + 8 adamantine blanched arrows
+1 light fort. full plate
ring of protection +2
amulet of natural armor +2
Belt of Physical Perfection +2
Cloak of Resistance +3
cracked dusty rose ioun stone (Prestige)
Feats:
Power Attack
Dodge
Weapon Focus (longsword)
Greater Weapon Focus (longsword)
Combat Reflexes
Step Up
Shield Focus
Weapon Specialization (longsword)
Improved initiative
Vital Strike
Iron Will
Improved Critical (longsword)
Traits:
Reactionary
Auspicious Tattoo
Weapon Training:
Heavy blades +2
Bows +1
TL:DR - He's a sword & board tank who can fall back on bows if running up to enemies doesn't work.
If there's anything else I should include, let me know (I'm a noob with messageboards).
|
|
You're right at the point where it's just barely going to take 2 scenarios to get enough gold. You need 16,000, and you should get around 7700 from a tier 10-11. Do you have something worth 1,000 gold you could sell to get the extra 500 or so you'll need?
Do you have trouble hitting things? If so, Holy won't help you.
Do you do enough damage to not care about DR/cold iron or silver? Holy will help you power through those against an evil creature, but not neutral. You're a fighter, so presumably you do decent damage already.
Do you have gloves of dueling? They would cost slightly less for the same +2/+2 of a +2 weapon, but they wouldn't give the ability to overcome DR.
Basically, if you do enough damage that you don't care about overcoming cold iron or silver, and you aren't having trouble hitting, then Holy would help you overcome DR/good and would do more average extra damage.
If an extra +2 to-hit means you start hitting with your second iterative, that's probably going to do more damage than holy.
I had a bit of trouble with money management early on (first character), so I'll be hard-pressed to sell something to make up for the difference unless I decide to trade the mithral longsword for silver. I forgot about the gloves of dueling though, so I'll probably invest in those first and get holy later on (assuming I play this character past level 11).
Well, your feats are a bit sporadic for a Sword/Board master. Fighters typically don't need Dodge, Imp. Initiative, Step Up or Combat Reflexes for a Sword/Board build as much as they need feats like Imp Shield Bash, Shield Slam, Bull Rush, etc.
That being said, your build isn't weak per se; those are all solid feats, but typically you want to be building "towards" a build that really starts becoming powerful around the lvl 6-11 range. (For example, you can finish out your entire Cleave/Imp.Cleaving Finish feat chain by level 6 and you'll be an AoE whirlwind of death, add Cornugon Smash, Imp. Critical, a Cruel (+1) enchant and a Culling (+2) enchant and your DM won't even know what to do with you around lvl 8-10ish). I know this is your first toon, so keep that in mind as you continue playing this character and in future campaigns. Also, in the future, Fighters are extremely item dependent because of consumables and upgrading their armor/enchants. The Trait "Dusk Agent" can really help maximize your coin over the lifetime of a campaign.
Current Build Recommendations:
Since you already have Step Up, I would advise you to finish the feat chain and get Step Up & Strike. Also, since you're going Vital Strike, I'd recommend getting Improved Vital Strike at lvl 11, Devastating Strike at 12, (then Following Step at lvl 13, Step Up & Strike 14, Disruptive 15) and Greater Vital Strike at lvl 16. At some point before you get Greater Vital Strike at lvl 16, figure out a way to increase your Size (either from party buffs or with Enlarge Person potions). Greater Vital Strike becomes absolutely monstrous damage output when you're wielding a large or a huge weapon. (For example, a medium Longsword deals 1d8 dmg, a Huge Longsword is 3d6 dmg. So with Greater Vital Strike, Devastating Strike, and Huge Size, you would deal 3d6+x dmg PLUS 9d6+6 dmg). And if you're a Large/Huge target with Disruptive, you threaten everyone within 10/15ft, which really sucks for enemy casters. And if anyone takes a 5ft step out of the area you threaten, Step Up & Strike :)
Anywho, that Adamantine Longsword is actually somewhat difficult to find because Adamantine is extremely rare. I would recommend keeping that sword and invest a lot of money into enchanting it. If you do choose to go the Vital Strike path, try to maximize your single target dmg with your longsword with Bane, Wounding (this can be a serious pain for enemy casters as well because it causes lingering damage and messes with their Conc checks; the bleeding stacks and consumes enemy action economy to make Heal checks to remove the bleeding), or any of the Flaming/Frost Burst enchants.
Hope that helps :)
Duskwalker Agent isn't PFS legal.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/regional-traits/trait-regional-duskwalker-ag ent/
If your DM allows this trait, it's one of the absolute best traits for a Fighter. Or anyone who is item dependent.
...It says "PFS" right there in the title. They won't allow it.
|
|
Well, your feats are a bit sporadic for a Sword/Board master. Fighters typically don't need Dodge, Imp. Initiative, Step Up or Combat Reflexes for a Sword/Board build as much as they need feats like Imp Shield Bash, Shield Slam, Bull Rush, etc.
That being said, your build isn't weak per se; those are all solid feats, but typically you want to be building "towards" a build that really starts becoming powerful around the lvl 6-11 range. (For example, you can finish out your entire Cleave/Imp.Cleaving Finish feat chain by level 6 and you'll be an AoE whirlwind of death, add Cornugon Smash, Imp. Critical, a Cruel (+1) enchant and a Culling (+2) enchant and your DM won't even know what to do with you around lvl 8-10ish). I know this is your first toon, so keep that in mind as you continue playing this character and in future campaigns. Also, in the future, Fighters are extremely item dependent because of consumables and upgrading their armor/enchants. The Trait "Dusk Agent" can really help maximize your coin over the lifetime of a campaign.
Current Build Recommendations:
Since you already have Step Up, I would advise you to finish the feat chain and get Step Up & Strike. Also, since you're going Vital Strike, I'd recommend getting Improved Vital Strike at lvl 11, Devastating Strike at 12, (then Following Step at lvl 13, Step Up & Strike 14, Disruptive 15) and Greater Vital Strike at lvl 16. At some point before you get Greater Vital Strike at lvl 16, figure out a way to increase your Size (either from party buffs or with Enlarge Person potions). Greater Vital Strike becomes absolutely monstrous damage output when you're wielding a large or a huge weapon. (For example, a medium Longsword deals 1d8 dmg, a Huge Longsword is 3d6 dmg. So with Greater Vital Strike, Devastating Strike, and Huge Size, you would deal 3d6+x dmg PLUS 9d6+6 dmg). And if you're a Large/Huge target with Disruptive, you threaten everyone within 10/15ft, which really sucks for enemy casters. And if anyone takes a 5ft step...
A lot of those feats I just picked up as I leveled. Again, first character, I didn't really know how to plan ahead with feat trees. That said, I'm skeptical with the shield bash line since many of my enemies at this point had DR/adamantine, DR/-, etc. and I didn't build this character with that in mind anyway. My character has done surprisingly well so far despite all of that (he does use potions of Enlarge Person like you mentioned). I'll try the feats you recommended, maybe retrain an existing feat to help, and see if that gets me anywhere.
...It says "PFS" right there in the title. They won't allow it.
Yeah, I read that in the title. That's why I was careful to choose the words "Also, in the future, Fighters are extremely item dependent because of consumables and upgrading their armor/enchants. The Trait "Dusk Agent" can really help maximize your coin over the lifetime of a campaign." and "If your DM allows this trait, it's one of the absolute best traits for a Fighter. Or anyone who is item dependent."
I doubt he will only play this rule-set his entire Pathfinder career; this trait will not help him now during this campaign but it could in future games.
...Well, your feats are a bit sporadic for a Sword/Board master. Fighters typically don't need Dodge, Imp. Initiative, Step Up or Combat Reflexes for a Sword/Board build as much as they need feats like Imp Shield Bash, Shield Slam, Bull Rush, etc.
That being said, your build isn't weak per se; those are all solid feats, but typically you want to be building "towards" a build that really starts becoming powerful around the lvl 6-11 range. (For example, you can finish out your entire Cleave/Imp.Cleaving Finish feat chain by level 6 and you'll be an AoE whirlwind of death, add Cornugon Smash, Imp. Critical, a Cruel (+1) enchant and a Culling (+2) enchant and your DM won't even know what to do with you around lvl 8-10ish). I know this is your first toon, so keep that in mind as you continue playing this character and in future campaigns. Also, in the future, Fighters are extremely item dependent because of consumables and upgrading their armor/enchants. The Trait "Dusk Agent" can really help maximize your coin over the lifetime of a campaign.
Current Build Recommendations:
Since you already have Step Up, I would advise you to finish the feat chain and get Step Up & Strike. Also, since you're going Vital Strike, I'd recommend getting Improved Vital Strike at lvl 11, Devastating Strike at 12, (then Following Step at lvl 13, Step Up & Strike 14, Disruptive 15) and Greater Vital Strike at lvl 16. At some point before you get Greater Vital Strike at lvl 16, figure out a way to increase your Size (either from party buffs or with Enlarge Person potions). Greater Vital Strike becomes absolutely monstrous damage output when you're wielding a large or a huge weapon. (For example, a medium Longsword deals 1d8 dmg, a Huge Longsword is 3d6 dmg. So with Greater Vital Strike, Devastating Strike, and Huge Size, you would deal 3d6+x dmg PLUS 9d6+6 dmg). And if you're a Large/Huge target with Disruptive, you threaten everyone within 10/15ft, which really sucks for enemy casters. And
I typically don't play Sword/Board, but one of my buddies played a Sword/Board Anti-paladin and made excellent use of shield bash/slam and Bull Rush with GBR and Bull Rush Strike. He was exceptionally pushy-shovy, and even pushed someone off a cliff once. It was pretty awesome. I think that's one of the best sword/board builds I've seen.
My recommendations, for what they are worth, are as follows:
- I would put Adaptive on the longbow to take full advantage of your strength even if you drink enlarge person potion, get a better belt, or whatever.
- Consider a scroll or two of Versatile Weapon instead of the multiple swords. There is usually someone in the group that can cast it for you if it is really needed.
- I would probably sell the mithral sword to use the cash for something else. With your strength, power attack, vital strike, etc... A bit of DR probably won't make as much difference as having all the enchantments on the one sword you always use.
- In general, a + to hit and damage usually adds up to more damage over the long haul due to allowing more iterative attacks to land. Having said that, I find things like the Holy enchantment to be more fun to use. Six of one, half dozen of the other. Either is perfectly viable.
- I would increase your cloak to +5 as soon as possible. A dominated high level fighter in the middle of the party during an encounter is a nightmare.
- Cold Iron arrows and blunt arrows are a stupidly cheap way to get past some DR.
- I would probably carry at least 1 back-up weapon. (Maybe a morning star to get piercing and blunt.) You probably don't want to take your god-sword up against a rust monster or a sunder expert.
|
|
My recommendations, for what they are worth, are as follows:
- I would put Adaptive on the longbow to take full advantage of your strength even if you drink enlarge person potion, get a better belt, or whatever.
- Consider a scroll or two of Versatile Weapon instead of the multiple swords. There is usually someone in the group that can cast it for you if it is really needed.
- I would probably sell the mithral sword to use the cash for something else. With your strength, power attack, vital strike, etc... A bit of DR probably won't make as much difference as having all the enchantments on the one sword you always use.
- In general, a + to hit and damage usually adds up to more damage over the long haul due to allowing more iterative attacks to land. Having said that, I find things like the Holy enchantment to be more fun to use. Six of one, half dozen of the other. Either is perfectly viable.
- I would increase your cloak to +5 as soon as possible. A dominated high level fighter in the middle of the party during an encounter is a nightmare.
- Cold Iron arrows and blunt arrows are a stupidly cheap way to get past some DR.
- I would probably carry at least 1 back-up weapon. (Maybe a morning star to get piercing and blunt.) You probably don't want to take your god-sword up against a rust monster or a sunder expert.
- I did have plans to make the longbow adaptive, I can just sell the mithral longsword to balance out the cost.
- I have 2 clubs for DR/bludgeoning or sunder effects, and DR/piercing is so rare in my experience that I haven't bothered with it. I didn't mention them since they're free & found almost anywhere.So far, I'm leaning towards the gloves of dueling Ferious mentioned, and buying a silver weapon or arrows to replace the mithral sword. IMO, getting a scroll out and handing it to a caster takes time and knowledge of the target's DR, not that it matters if I make the adamantine sword +3 or +4. Many of the encounters I've seen at least halfway through scenarios are different from what is told to the party at the beginning (and we're not exactly known for our scouting skills).
- I did have plans to make the longbow adaptive, I can just sell the mithral longsword to balance out the cost.
- I have 2 clubs for DR/bludgeoning or sunder effects, and DR/piercing is so rare in my experience that I haven't bothered with it. I didn't mention them since they're free & found almost anywhere.So far, I'm leaning towards the gloves of dueling Ferious mentioned, and buying a silver weapon or arrows to replace the mithral sword. IMO, getting a scroll out and handing it to a caster takes time and knowledge of the target's DR, not that it matters if I make the adamantine sword +3 or +4. Many of the encounters I've seen at least halfway through scenarios are different from what is told to the party at the beginning (and we're not exactly known for our scouting skills).
Oh yes, the Gloves of Dueling are definitely a nice item for fighters.
Silver arrows are more expensive than cold iron arrows (remember -1 to damage), but at your level still not significantly a problem. Especially since it is not your primary weapon that you fire them off in huge job lots. The other thing here you might consider is Durable arrows. I think they are in the Alchemist's Handbook and the Elves of Golarion. They make your special material arrows reusable. Then you just get a single firefight's worth of each.
If you buy the scroll, you hand it to the spell caster before the scenario even starts. When someone wit the knowledge skills tells everyone that the BBEG is highly resistant to anything except silver weapons, then you tell/ask your friendly caster to use the scroll on your sword. If it is not needed, he gives it back at the end of the scenario.
Yeah, I'm not sure why, but no one seems to do much scouting in PFS. It really can be a big force multiplier to know what is up ahead. I'm actually starting a PC that will get pretty good at it using his familiar for the scout.
Forgot to mention, if you have a lot of excess prestige points sitting around contributing nothing, you might use them to buy wands of 1st level buff spells you like that someone else can cast on you. There used to be a fighter in our local area that carried around 10+ wands in addition to his wand of CLW.
You might also want a potion of Fly and one of Breathe Water. You don't usually need them, but when you do... You really, really need them.
|
|
- I did have plans to make the longbow adaptive, I can just sell the mithral longsword to balance out the cost.
- I have 2 clubs for DR/bludgeoning or sunder effects, and DR/piercing is so rare in my experience that I haven't bothered with it. I didn't mention them since they're free & found almost anywhere.So far, I'm leaning towards the gloves of dueling Ferious mentioned, and buying a silver weapon or arrows to replace the mithral sword. IMO, getting a scroll out and handing it to a caster takes time and knowledge of the target's DR, not that it matters if I make the adamantine sword +3 or +4. Many of the encounters I've seen at least halfway through scenarios are different from what is told to the party at the beginning (and we're not exactly known for our scouting skills).
Oh yes, the Gloves of Dueling are definitely a nice item for fighters.
Silver arrows are more expensive than cold iron arrows (remember -1 to damage), but at your level still not significantly a problem. Especially since it is not your primary weapon that you fire them off in huge job lots. The other thing here you might consider is Durable arrows. I think they are in the Alchemist's Handbook and the Elves of Golarion. They make your special material arrows reusable. Then you just get a single firefight's worth of each.
If you buy the scroll, you hand it to the spell caster before the scenario even starts. When someone wit the knowledge skills tells everyone that the BBEG is highly resistant to anything except silver weapons, then you tell/ask your friendly caster to use the scroll on your sword. If it is not needed, he gives it back at the end of the scenario.
Yeah, I'm not sure why, but no one seems to do much scouting in PFS. It really can be a big force multiplier to know what is up ahead. I'm actually starting a PC that will get pretty good at it using his familiar for the scout.
Forgot to mention, if you have a lot of excess prestige points sitting around contributing...
Good point on the wands, I'll invest in an Enlarge Person wand since it's my go to buff (that'll leave me with 20 Prestige).
|
|
If you're enlarging before combat, the wand is probably fine. Both the wand and the potion only have 1 minute durations, though, so that could mean wasting a few charges now and then. Not a huge deal.
If you're enlarging in combat, the potion is probably a better option. For one, you can use it yourself, so you aren't asking someone else to use their action in combat on you. If you have a high UMD, you could use it (edit: the wand) yourself. However, enlarge person has a 1 round casting time. The wand will have that casting time, while the potion is just a standard (plus a move to take it out). That's 1 round, not a full-round action. So you start casting from the wand, and it doesn't go into effect until just before your next turn. I don't think using a wand can be disrupted like casting, but it's still a lot of time/actions to get it going and you won't be large for attacks of opportunity in that first round.
|
|
If you're enlarging before combat, the wand is probably fine. Both the wand and the potion only have 1 minute durations, though, so that could mean wasting a few charges now and then. Not a huge deal.
If you're enlarging in combat, the potion is probably a better option. For one, you can use it yourself, so you aren't asking someone else to use their action in combat on you. If you have a high UMD, you could use it (edit: the wand) yourself. However, enlarge person has a 1 round casting time. The wand will have that casting time, while the potion is just a standard (plus a move to take it out). That's 1 round, not a full-round action. So you start casting from the wand, and it doesn't go into effect until just before your next turn. I don't think using a wand can be disrupted like casting, but it's still a lot of time/actions to get it going and you won't be large for attacks of opportunity in that first round.
True, I would have to give the wand to someone else before combat. My fighter doesn't have UMD since I'm trying to maintain Perception, Knowledge (dungeoneering & engineering), and Survival, so he just drank potions here and there. As long as we don't get ambushed though, the wand is an easier investment.
|
|
Dipping barbarian (or other gets-mad splat-class) on an odd level while taking Extra Rage and plunking down for the Furious enhancement is a right darn quick way to pick up att+4.
I would if I had planned for that. Multiclassing isn't something I'm comfortable enough to do on the fly yet. Doesn't help that I have +1 Light Fortification full plate already.