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Honestly, I have not been to your game so I don't know how is Rem playing his character but hearing him say that his character is condescending to other PCs because he has high IQ and he thinks of them as he was traveling with a bunch of rocks is not nice.
Hiding behind a character's personality to act in a way other people might find annoying is not good roleplaying. You can play a character who is a bit condescending, bitter, etc. without bothering other players. This is a team game and you should play your characters to fit the team.
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First, I just want to clarify, I might not have fully understood your point because that paragraph is a mess. Not judging or anything, many people in this forum don't speak English as a first language and people have various levels of grammatical skill, but that doesn't help me read it any better. Now for the first issue where he told y'all to hurry up and decide, well honestly it might be rude but I can sympathize. I once had a party spend an entire session trying to decide what inn to stay in for the night, and I was pretty damn frustrated about that. Now the second part was where I had some issues. The gist of it seems that ARM is having spells cast on him and he doesn't like that. Well I guess what I need to know is who is casting the spells, why are they casting the spells, what are the spells, and why is he upset about them?
I made my judgement based on the pics he posted, which seem clarifying.
I had a hard time understanding the OP too, as I am not a native English speaker so I might have missed some concepts.
But Rem calling other PCs «a bunch of rocks» was something that really made me think what kind of player he is.
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sorry I have dyslexia and a few more issues with language.
One of the best players and GMs that I've ever had was dyslexic too. His notes were a mess but that didn't keep him for being a highly organized and clever player.
You don't have to apologize for being dyslexic. We all do our best. I sometimes have a difficult time here too as English is not my mother tongue.
I'm assuming English is a secondary language here. I'm going to clean up what you wrote so I can understand it better before I respond.
Hello, player. So, as you may able to tell from the title, I may have run into my first problem player.
So, some backstory on the below screenshots: The player that I will call REM was with me when we started this campaign (as well as one more player who dropped out after 3 weeks). He and I were fine; we never had a issues between us, and I had fun playing with him.
He had to leave for a 3-5 weeks due to him being in the US Army. The GM got some new players (about 1 a week); all of them were fine, until ARM came in.
The first issue occurred when the party found a dead body with some money on it. We were debating on what to do when he (ARM) said "OMFG, hurry up. You're taking so f&$%ing long." His character had not joined the party at that point, so it could just be he wanted to play.
About 2 weeks later when we played, REM rejoined. ARM began calling REM a D&$#, because he's casting spells on him (in roleplay and out of roleplay). The GM DID NOT take control of his PC. ARM was yelling at us because we did not trust him yet (in character). Keep in mind, our characters had only known him for one day (in game).
1. http://prnt.sc/eg70ig
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5. http://prntscr.com/eg729vARM is the GM's friend outside of the game, so I don't know what to do.
Okay, did my best but I'm still a bit confused.
First, you state that ARM began to swear at REM because he (REM?) was casting spells on him (ARM?). Assuming I have the caster and targets correct, which spells were being cast and why?
Second, you make a point of stating that the GM did not take control of his PC. Whose PC are you talking about, and why would the GM be taking control of someone's character?
Third, I would say that this is a good opportunity to view an issue from someone else's point of view. Based on the screenshots, it seems like REM's character is antagonistic towards newcomers. It would be difficult for me to enjoy coming to a game where my character has to deal with hostility within the player characters.
REM may be "just playing his character," but he also made a choice to play this kind of character. I don't know anything else about your group's dynamic, and it may be that REM is looking for roleplay opportunities to bond with new player characters. But based on that alone, I would have issue as well.
That being said, you should all have a talk together before your next game. It doesn't have to be a big talk, but all the current players and the GM should express what kind of game they are looking for. This can avoid the kind of hostility you are experiencing.
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Casting Charm Person on another PC is not nice, as he's trying to force him to like the caster.
This kind of enchantments on a party member often mean trouble.
Also casting a spell so Arm doesn't want the loot seems completely off.
Even if he didn't want the loot, casting a spell on him to make sure he doesn't is like taking control of the other PC. I wouldn't like that someone did that to my PC.
It looks like the two players have developed some kind of hostility and they'll probably need to arrange it out of the game and come to an agreement. I hope they can.
I had a couple of players who had similar issues. They disliked each other. One of them tried his best to avoid trouble, but the other kept feeling insulted by anything the other player said. The only solution was to cut one of the two players from the game. That's never cool because both were my friends. It was easier because one of them wasn't enjoying the game and wanted to leave, but it's never cool to have this kind of table issues.
If you keep telling us how it goes I'll try my best to help.
Maybe the GM should make a move and ban all kind of non benefical spellcasting between party members.
I don't usually allow it on my table because it ends being troublesome.
We're not judging if people with high HQ can behave like that. A#!%%~*s exist everywhere disregarding of HQ.
This guy is giving his character's HQ as an excuse for poor behaviour, but if it wasn't the HQ he could have given any other excuse for being disruptive.
This character's HQ is irrelevant because, even if Rem is saying otherwise, this is not a character issue but a player issue.
The players will have to come to an aggreement so the characters can get along and the GM should probably set some rules to avoid PVP.
In my games my players are given this rules:
-No PVP allowed under any circumstance.
-Players must create characters who are able to work in a team and stay motivated to do so. If they insist on going solo all the time their scenes might be overlooked.
-The loot is shared evenly. If any disagreements on looting appear, I design the loot to the character I choose.
-Any argument between players has to be dealt outside the game. If any of my players has a complaint of other player he should tell me first so I can act as a mediator, but no harsh words allowed in the middle of a session.
Fortunately most of my players don't need this rules as they are civil people, but it doesn't hurt to remind them from time to time so they remember I don't want trouble at my table.
I don't need my players to be best friends nor do I want the characters to be, but I make sure that any issue among the PCs is only in game and doesn't escalate enough to affect gameplay.
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I've found that people who don't properly understand intelligence tend to RP high Int as pompous elitist douchebags. It speaks to their own self esteem and what they think highly intelligent people are secretly thinking about everyone else.
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I've found that people who don't properly understand intelligence tend to RP high Int as pompous elitist douchebags. It speaks to their own self esteem and what they think highly intelligent people are secretly thinking about everyone else.
High Int Low charisma as it were.
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Yup!
Heh. Douchebaggery may just be real life min-maxing.
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I think most people min-max really. I think its rare to see someone with all around good stats.
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Characters might not be real, but people playing them are.
Being treated poorly is not fun even if it's just a game.
There's also a difference between playing a rude character, which is fine, and being so rude that you ruin other people's fun.
Your both right really its gonna depend on the group and people playing and how they take it. I mean I feel like most people should know if their upsetting others and then not do it, But some people.
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I don't take things personally if everything is in character, but I've met too many people who will hide behind a character to behave like they wouldn't dare to do in real life, I don't see that as a character problem but as a player problem.
And I as a player have a responsability to roleplay my character in a way that is not going to upset other players.
I have a long story of characters who are outsiders, a bit rude or who lack empathy, but I try to make sure I am not disruptive when I roleplay them.
You also have to know other players at the table and be empathic with them. Not everybody has the same sensitivity.
Personally, I don't care if my character is treated poorly for a reason, but seeing a player getting cocky and treating everybody poorly with his character annoys me.
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Then the character should also experience the consequences of their actions in game. If character X is a dick to the cleric, well maybe during down time he gets the heal skill rather than a cure spell when not in danger of imminent death. Not all deities are about turning the other cheek.
He's a douchebag to the guy behind the bar, he gets kicked out of the tavern, the rest ofor the party can choose to join him or stay. Yes people can play the character they like but PC'S and NPC's aren't any more fond of a+%#@@#s than players.
You make an intentionally abrasive character choice, you should feel it.
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I aggree with you, Mark, but if the GM isn't doing his job and lets the disruptive character do what he wants it's when the conflicts with other players appear because the GM is not reacting properly and the PCs are the only ones confronting the issue character.
If another PC is mean to yours and you react properly you are risking to start a PVP battle that will often be detrimental to the game. If you let him do to avoid PVP he'll keep on doing it and you'll end being pissed.
That's why I think it's GMs duty to deal with it and why I ban PVP. This stuff has to be talked outside the game when the in game solution has failed or it can be detrimental for both the game and the relations among players.
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Your group definitely has some problems. Having a player playing intelligence as a more aggressive Sheldon Cooper gets old fast. We actually had one player at our table state that geniuses are, by definition, evil because they will do anything they think of without worrying about the consequences. The TV show Bones had it closest to right when they explained to the bright-normal agent that geniuses have the same motivations as everyone else, they just tend to be more effective planning and carrying out those plans. The shows over-reliance on the Autistic OCD trope for geniuses was a bit of a fail, but their recognition of enhanced perception of subtle connections was good.
Some people play the occasional jerk for comic relief. Some people play jerks a lot, because they like being able to get away with being jerks and can use RP as a cover to be as nasty and as hurtful as they want to be. Deep seated feelings of inferiority tend to come out in unpleasant ways. Recognize this, and remember that there is often more stuff roiling under the surface. Try not to play into that game, attention tends to reinforce it.
Why does every 10th thread turn into a fight between forum users? Can't you all just discuss the topic without turning into a personal issue?
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Jos,
This thread IS about a personal issue. Opinions on that issue differ, but it doesn't appear to be a fight among the posters.
Why does every 10th thread turn into a fight between forum users? Can't you all just discuss the topic without turning into a personal issue?
I blame the impersonal nature of text-only electronic communication. Easy to write, easy to misinterpret. Face to face conversation doesn't often have this problem. I don't think hand-written letters had this problem either, back when people did such things.
But I agree with Daw.
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Well it seems Vidmaster was attacking Kileanna pretty aggressively back there. I see that A LOT on here. One person doesn't like another's opinion and then it turns into bickering that doesn't address the point of the thread.
Hey Ciaran,
Actually there was less problem back in the day with hand written letters, but it tended to be less of a problem because letters were longer. Things get explained better (hopefully) in a 6 page letter than it does in a typical post. Walls of text are looked down on as a rule, thus misunderstandings occur on a regular basis.
Sad Smile, thanks for reminding me just how old I am though. :/
Hey maybe I'm reading into things that aren't there. If I'm wrong that's fine, I'm OK with being wrong. Sorry if I'm creating a disruption.
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Is there a Russian connection? Is the FBI involved? Was there fraudulent spell-casting or irreverent spell-tapping? Did you contact the Rock Relations board?
Well it seems Vidmaster was attacking Kileanna pretty aggressively back there. I see that A LOT on here. One person doesn't like another's opinion and then it turns into bickering that doesn't address the point of the thread.
Vidmaster is a cool guy. The worse thing he has ever called me is Confuser of Vids.
I think you meant Ru-Eta.And I might be writing some kind of answer later, but now I don't have time. I've just awaken and I'm sleepy. *Yawns*
Well it seems Vidmaster was attacking Kileanna pretty aggressively back there. I see that A LOT on here. One person doesn't like another's opinion and then it turns into bickering that doesn't address the point of the thread.Vidmaster is a cool guy. The worse thing he has ever called me is Confuser of Vids.
I think you meant Ru-Eta.
And I might be writing some kind of answer later, but now I don't have time. I've just awaken and I'm sleepy. *Yawns*
Wait what did I do?
Evil, evil Vid.
Ninja Vid.
You attacked me and I didn't even notice.
I think JosMartigan just confused the names.
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You know I've played a lot of classes but I was never huge on Ninja's so I guess I repressed my inner ninja down so much that he is lashing out at people unbeknownst to me. OoO making a new aliasis
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*Attacks the Thread* *Vanishes*
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One cannot have too many aliases.
When I grow up I want to be just like Captain Yesterday.
Back on topic. I was writing a lengthy post but I felt like I was repeating arguments, so I'm going straight to the new points.
If it's consensual I don't have a problem with two PCs fighting each others or casting non benefical spells on other PCs. As you said PVP means player vs. Player not character vs. Character.
But they have to aggree out of character to do it and ask permission from the other player.
When I was playing my Enchanter wizard there was another PC who had contracted lycanthropy. I don't think he'd complain but I asked to cast Dominate on him to avoid him to kill some peasants before I did. Not all players feel comfortable with other PCs doing this so keeping everything consensual helps to improve everybody's fun.
What I don't get is all this «it's me, not my character» justification. Your character is not real. If a player is not feeling comfortable with your behaviour it's your responsability to change it, not your character's.
People feels uncomfortable about fictional things all the time. People stops watching shows because they have too much gore, too much sex, too much drama, whatever. And it's not because they think the show is real, it's just because they have the right to dislike it even if it's fictional.
If one of the people in the group was playing a rapist and his character started doing it in the game. I would't think my friend is a rapist, but I wouldn't feel very comfortable about it. If other people at the table wanted him to stop and he just said «it's not me, it's my character» and went on the issue would be with the player, not the character. Nobody thinks that the real person is a rapist, they can see the difference. That's not the issue. The issue is that other players are not enjoying because of this character and the player is being selfish by not wanting to adapt to the other players. No matter if he wasn't doing anything wrong before. At the moment you start putting your own fun above the group's fun there's an issue.
I don't believe in «problems with a character». If a character is problematic but everybody enjoys there is no problem at all. If a character is problematic and other players don't enjoy then the problem is with players, not with characters.
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@gameinvestigator
It looks like the players are polarized and starting a war with the GM in the middle.
My best advice is that the GM enforces civility in the table and states to both players to keep their differences out of the game.
If any of the two players tries to use his PC as a «weapon» to deliberately hinder or hurt the other PC (and I've seen it too many times) the game will soon go south.
As a GM I had to deal with similar issues before and I told my players that no matter what kind of issues they had out of the game, their characters had to collaborate and be polite to each other. The players will never be best friends but at least everybody enjoyed the game.
If they cannot be civil then one of the player will have to leave the game, but if you can avoid it it will be better for all the group.
Having read this - and having played an utter pain in the ass as a PC in the past, and NOT because (as Kileanna says) it gave me license to be a dick to others - I can categorically state that 'Girlfriend ARM' needs a talking-to about passive/aggressive b**~@~~$, keeping IC stuff IC (particularly if the other player (i.e REM) is a) somewhat apologizing and trying to keep things OOCly copacetic, b) is not saying what the OTHER person's character is, but only what their OWN character is, and c) is otherwise at the table an entirely good-natured individual, which by all accounts he is), and insulting other players.
If the talking-to didn't fix it, I-as-GM would have to say, "I like you a lot, but I think having you in the group is a problem, so you're out of the group."
*shrugs* YMMV.