Shadow Projection - am I missing something?


Rules Questions


Okay, so I was checking out Shadow Projection and for a level 4 spell it seems like for some really tough creatures it is pretty much a guaranteed win for the price of a single level 4 spell. It seems like most monsters that use natural attacks and aren't immune to ability drain often have no defense against this spell.

For example, a Tor Linnorm (CR21) or Black Magga(CR15) - as far as I can tell they can't harm you because you're incorporeal and every time you hit them with your touch attack they would lose 1d6 STR. At zero strength they would pass out and be easy to kill. They can run away I suppose.

I feel like I must be overlooking some rule somewhere, because a level 7 wizard using 1 spell and then taking down a CR21 creature on their own without any risk seems ridiculous.

EDIT: Fixed where I said energy drain instead of strength drain.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

It's a scouting spell first and combat spell second

Tor Linnorm would just breath weapon your shadow dead because a level 7 wizard can't take too many 24d8 attacks.

Black Magga has DR magic so it'd just melee you to death. Sure it's attacks would deal half but a bite and 4 tentacles will get there faster than you get their str.


Incorporeal (Ex) wrote:
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities.

The Tor Linnorm's Breath Weapon (Su) would still work.

The Black Magga's Transdimensional Tentacles (Su) can attack things on the Shadow Plain, and it also has a Breath Weapon.


They are incorporeal, but natural attacks of creatures that have DR/magic deal damage (50%) just like a magic weapon.

Also as mentioned, the breath weapons will work just fine.


Dr Styx - There doesn't seem to be any direct reference to Shadows being on the Shadow Plane that I can find, despite the name, just that they're incorporeal.

Didn't catch the breath weapon thing though, was thinking of it as just energy damage.

Claxon - I haven't heard that having DR/Magic does that. Do you have a reference?

Sovereign Court

Naglfarthedwarf wrote:

Dr Styx - There doesn't seem to be any direct reference to Shadows being on the Shadow Plane that I can find, despite the name, just that they're incorporeal.

Didn't catch the breath weapon thing though, was thinking of it as just energy damage.

Claxon - I haven't heard that having DR/Magic does that. Do you have a reference?

He's referring to this bit in the Damage Reduction specification in the Bestiary:

Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. Any weapon with at least a +1 magical enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls overcomes the damage reduction of these monsters. Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

So he's half right. Incorporeality isn't damage reduction so strictly speaking it doesn't work, but it probably should.


I was pretty sure they actually issued an FAQ about the topic that specified that it also applied for incorporeal, but I could also be imagining it too.


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Claxon wrote:
I was pretty sure they actually issued an FAQ about the topic that specified that it also applied for incorporeal, but I could also be imagining it too.

relevant FAQ


Hang on a minute, I still don't see where it states that a creature possessing DR/Magic makes its natural attacks count as magic. I mean it has the DR sure, but where does it say that transforms its attacks?


Naglfarthedwarf wrote:
Hang on a minute, I still don't see where it states that a creature possessing DR/Magic makes its natural attacks count as magic. I mean it has the DR sure, but where does it say that transforms its attacks?

Ascalaphus linked it a couple of posts up

relevant part wrote:
Some monsters are vulnerable to magic weapons. ... Such creatures' natural weapons (but not their attacks with weapons) are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Taken together with the FAQ I linked = the ability to hurt incorporeal.


Ah right, got it. So that's what I was missing. Good to know. Thanks guys.

Sovereign Court

I'd forgotten about that FAQ, but that ties it together neatly.

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