New homebrew class: NEED HELP BALANCING

[ElricCastor]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UNcrmgPsfPYGrR9hZAzptHJi-ocLrxhu3V1kxNb -rK4/edit

[ElricCastor]

working link
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UNcrmgPsfPYGrR9hZAzptHJi-ocLrxhu3V1kxNb -rK4/edit?usp=sharing

[The Sideromancer]

The forums automatically add a space to any word of a certain length, you should use the (url) tag. It has square brackets rather than the round ones I stated.

[Ciaran Barnes]

SPELLSLINGER

There are some typos and layout errors, but aside from there isn't much to critique yet. Threads lon me this should usually start with an introduction to the class of some kind. What area your intentions? Why does it gain 2nd level spells at 2nd level?

[Johnnycat93]

Sorry, what suggestions are you looking for? If it's the Spellslinger document that you're looking to balance my first comment would be to add actual class features. There's a ton of stuff missing, to the point I can't tell what it's supposed to be.

[Fistbeard McBeardfist]

The Spellslinger?

Look, your document is not even at a level where people can give you input on balance. What you have looks like a half-finished wizard archetype. I can't even tell if this is supposed to be a prepared or spontaneous caster, and if it's really supposed to have no attribute associated with spellcasting, why it's called a "spellslinger", or anything else really.

[Fistbeard McBeardfist]

Functional link

[ElricCastor]

this is meant to be an instantaneous caster. This is my first times. It's goal is to be a simple, fast spellcaster based on int. I can modify it to edit.
https://docs.google.com/a/khps.org/document/d/1UNcrmgPsfPYGrR9hZAzptHJi-ocL rxhu3V1kxNb-rK4/edit?usp=sharing

[ElricCastor]

I am wanting to give it rapid spell advancement and easy casting, but a low BAB.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UNcrmgPsfPYGrR9hZAzptHJi-ocLrxhu3V1kxNb -rK4/edit?usp=sharing final working link

[Ciaran Barnes]

A charcater gains a second (iterative) attack at BAB +6, not +7. At 20th level with a slow BAB progression, the BAB should be +10 / +5. There would be no 3rd attack.

At 20th level, the saving throws should be +6 / +6 / +12.

Eschew Materials is fine at 1st level, but Still Spell probably isn't. Is he going to use Still Spell on his cantrips?

I am completely against 2nd-level spells being gained at 2nd level of a character class. I suggest that you find an existing spellcasting progression and copy that.

"Skull" ranks should be fixed to "Skill". Also, 6 skill points per level is very high for a class whose primary ability score is Intelligence. For a 6 skill point class, the list of class skills is too short. The ranger and bard each have 6 skill points. Take a look at how many skills are on their lists. About 90% of all homebrew classes I see have Perception, just because its a good skill - not because it fits the class. Same goes with UMD, although I see it less frequently. Does it fit this class? Wizards don't have it because they already have enormous spell lists, and thus don't need to fake magical ability.

If I understand how your spellcasting works, he can cast any spell in his spellbook as long as he has it. Does it need to be open? Does he need to spend an action finding the spell? I'm not sure what an instantaneous spell caster is - since the two existing types are prepared and spontaneous - but it looks at though you want him to be somewhere in between those two.

The DC of spells should be 10 + spell level + ability score mod. If he can cast any spell in his spellbook, then he wouldn't need to swap out old spells. Does he learn automatically learn spells at each level, or must he find an write down spells? You should probably copy and paste the spells/spellbook section from another class and them modify that so it doesn't what you want it to.

[Cyrad]

The class feels really unfinished. I agree with Ciaran Barnes that you should follow an existing spell progression rather than making one up where the class gets 2nd level spells one spell level faster than the class that's supposed to be the best spellcaster in the game.

[ElricCastor]

I am trying to make a spellcaster that surpasses the wizard, but has a drawback in overt simplicity. It has nothing fancy other than lots of spells and fast spell progression.so i's meant to be both over and under powered.

[Johnnycat93]

I can't honestly think of any reason why that would be a good idea. Wizard is already the strongest class in the game. What possible reason could there be to make an even stronger version with more spells? That's beyond absurd.

[My Self]

It's a very, very bland class as of right now. And in general, bland is bad.

If you want to surpass the Wizard, why not give it Sorcerer+1 spell progression? So it has the spell progression of a Sorcerer of its level+1. It gets next-level spells as soon as the Wizard does, and gets more spell per level, but misses out on the Wizard's goodies. Perhaps also adding some way to spit out more spells or cannibalize unused spells, like the Arcanist. Additionally, capping the number of spells known, perhaps using Sorcerer progression (not Sorcerer+1) would help balance its power level. Feats are nice to have, but perhaps you have an actual class feature instead, one that contributes towards your ability to cast a lot of spells at once. Perhaps the ability to Twin or Quicken a spell by expending a second spell slot of the same level would be cool - although this should only be available at higher levels.

Proficiencies should be Wizard-level or worse, not all Simple weapons. There are some decent Simple weapons out there, but the Wizard doesn't get most of them.

Also, perhaps you make the spellbook function like an Arcane Bond? So you can't cast without holding it somehow.

Maybe a class feature:

Split Slinging
At 5th level, a Spellslinger may cast a Spellslinger spell twice as part of the same action, by expending a spell slot of the same level (or higher) as the spell cast. The CL of the duplicated spell is reduced to 1, and enemies are automatically considered to have succeeded at their save(s), if applicable. This ability cannot be used with spells that require expensive material components or Quickened spells.

At 10th level, enemies are not automatically considered to have succeeded at their save(s), but the CL and DC of the duplicated spell are reduced by 4.

At 15th level, the CL and DC penalty is reduced to 2. Once a day, a Spellslinger may use Split Slinging without expending any additional spell slots.

At 20th level, Spellslingers may cast a spell a third time as part of the same action, expending an additional slot of the same level or higher.

[ElricCastor]

So another thing i am open to: Screw with it. let's make this a community built class. I realize now i did a very poor job. Maybe we acan all work together on this?

[Ciaran Barnes]

Its not that you did a bad job or can't continue, its that your concept is very thin. The niche for "best spellcaster" is already filled by more than one class and each of them have a concept.

Have you looked at the arcanist hybrid class?

[Balancer]

From what I can gather you want the Arcanist hybrid class, I'd give it a look.

[Fistbeard McBeardfist]

A spontaneous caster needs two tables: One for spells known, one for spells/day.

[ElricCastor]

I like this arcanist.

[bitter lily]

Fistbeard, this is a terrifying class. Its "table for spells known" is the caster's entire spellbook. I think the spells per day should start with the wizard's and go down one. Or maybe it should be a 2/3 caster, with a progression like the magus's.

ElricCastor, I'm glad you like the Arcanist here. If it's got different goodies than you want, you can develop an archetype for it, taking things out consciously and replacing them.

[Here4daFreeSwag]

Good to have some free spellslingers, even if they might need some balancing. ;)