nonlethal and overflow damage

[Chess Pwn]

If I have 10 HP at lv1 and take 11 damage where am I at?
The rule seems to read that I'd have 1 lethal damage. But I have some players that say you add your con score to the non-lethal total before taking lethal damage. Was the rule changed? Or does max HP include con score?

[dwayne germaine]

I've always seen it run as your example describes.

[Gallant Armor]

If a creature's nonlethal damage is equal to his total maximum hit points (not his current hit points), all further nonlethal damage is treated as lethal damage.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Nonlethal-Damage

[Chess Pwn]

Right, does "maximum hit points" include your con score? I have some people saying it does and I'm curious of the rules on this.

[Lady-J]

maximum hit points are hit die+ con mod times level plus favoured class bonus and any other hp modifications such as toughness

[Lady-J]

so lets say you are a level 3 fighter with a 22 con(+6 con mod) and lets say hit die is maxed at each level (10 each time) you would have 30 hp from hit die, 18 from con and lets say you put 2 favoured class bonuses into hp and one in to skill points you would have a max hp of 50(30+18+2)

[dragonhunterq]

Maximum hitpoints does not include your con score. I have not seen anything to indicate it includes your con score, ever. Everything seems to clearly indicate your hitpoints are the positive number from your HD, con modifier and other bonuses.
I would be asking the person making this assertion to provide a citation.

Clearest citation in support of not including con is probably here

no mention of adding con to your maximum HP

no indication your max hp is anything other than the total positive number

etc. etc.

[Lathiira]

There are house rules that add the entire Con score, not just the Con bonus, to the hp of a starting character. Might also be from 4E? I can't remember.

[Goblin_Priest]

From my understanding, you should have 10 non-lethal damage, 1 lethal damage, and be unconscious.

[Claxon]

If you're talking about adding con score (like you do to determine if a character has died) for determining the effects of non-lethal damage (when you go unconscious and start taking lethal damage) then the answer is no, you do not add it.

You have your max hp, when your non-lethal damage equals your max hp (which is determined by adding class HD + con modifier + other bonuses) you begin taking lethal damage. Please note, you fall unconscious when non-lethal damage equals current HP.

[Kazaan]

Your current and max HP is 10. If you take 11 non-lethal damage, you'll accrue 10 nonlethal damage to your character because 10 is the max non-lethal he can sustain. The 1 remaining is converted to lethal so now, your current HP is 9, max is still 10, nonlethal damage to the character is 10. Since your nonlethal damage is greater than your current HP, you fall unconscious (had you only taken 10 nonlethal damage, you'd be staggered, but conscious because your nonlethal = current HP). You can still sustain 9 more lethal damage before you're at 0 HP, and then as much lethal damage as you have Con score before you're outright dead.

Another way to look at it is to think of a Health bar and a Stagger bar in a fighting game. Your Health bar depletes as you take lethal damage and your Stagger bar fills up as you take non-lethal. Both bars are the same length and one is situated right under the other. If the stagger bar builds up to the point that it's even with your remaining Health, you're staggered. If it builds up over that, then you're KO. And if the Stagger bar is full, any extra nonlethal is deducted from your health bar.

[Chess Pwn]

Okay good, it's like i thought

[Mysterious Stranger]

Your maximum HP is the amount of HP you have which does include things like favored class bonuses, bonuses from feats. You die when your HP reach a negative number equal to your CON score. This does not mean you add your CON score to your HP, just that your threshold for death is equal to the negative value of your CON score.

[Bloodrealm]

If you have 10 HP and you take 11 nonlethal damage, then you still have 10 HP, but also 11 points of nonlethal damage, knocking you unconscious.

[Kazaan]

Bloodrealm wrote:

If you have 10 HP and you take 11 nonlethal damage, then you still have 10 HP, but also 11 points of nonlethal damage, knocking you unconscious.

Only if you have 10 current HP and at least 11 max HP. Nonlethal over what you can max sustain (your max HP) spills over and becomes lethal damage. So a character with 10 max HP at full and 12 Con can sustain a total of 32 incoming nonlethal damage; the first 10 fill them up on non-lethal, and the next 22 are converted to lethal damage, first depleting his 10 HP, then an additional 12 damage which brings him to -12 HP, as well as his deity.

[Bloodrealm]

Ah, right. So you'd have... 9 HP and 10 nonlethal damage?

[Kazaan]

Bloodrealm wrote:

Ah, right. So you'd have... 9 HP and 10 nonlethal damage?

Correct.