How do tomes work?


Rules Questions


A tome that grants an inherent stat bonus (e.g. Tome of Understanding) costs 27,500 gp for every +1 bonus. To get to a +3 bonus is it necessary to buy a +3 tome out of the gate for 82,500 gp, or can the character buy three +1 tomes over time for 27,500 gp each and use each one in turn to boost the stat to +3?


Look at it this way, inherent bonuses don't stack. That's the easiest way I found to understand how it works. Although, I really don't think it's all that unbalancing to let them in this regard.


So what that means, if I understand correctly, is that a character needs to buy a +3 tome right of the gate to get +3. Is that correct?

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Pink Dragon wrote:
So what that means, if I understand correctly, is that a character needs to buy a +3 tome right of the gate to get +3. Is that correct?

Yes


^ What they said. In my home games, I let the Tomes stack. The prices work out (though it is technically easier to get 5 +1 Tomes than it is to get 1 +5 Tome). I think it leads to less waste and more player enjoyment.

Regardless, how the rules actually work is different. Reading a +1 then a +3 Tome results in a +3 bonus because they don't stack.


But according to rules you could still enchant that +1 tome to a +2 by only paying the difference. That does not apply to found loot of course and requires some time


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It's probably worth noting that by the rules, if you're casting Wish directly for the stat increases, to get the full +5 you need to cast Wish 5 consecutive times. Even a single round between casts breaks the chain and prevents the full bonus.

The tomes already make it way easier to get stacked bonuses than making sure you have 5 9th level spell slots to cast Wish from, plus the material components for all of them.


Damn you sweating to the oldies for not stacking with p 90 X...


Thanks everyone! I understand now.


fretgod99 wrote:
^ What they said. In my home games, I let the Tomes stack. The prices work out (though it is technically easier to get 5 +1 Tomes than it is to get 1 +5 Tome).

That is how we do it in our games as well and since the GM can control availability of tomes in home games balance usually is not an issue if they do it smart.


Prof. Löwenzahn wrote:
But according to rules you could still enchant that +1 tome to a +2 by only paying the difference. That does not apply to found loot of course and requires some time

Why wouldn't it apply to found loot? A caster with the appropriate item creation feat and spells can upgrade an item (say a +1 weapon to a +3 weapon, or adding a special property) regardless of how he came by it (looted, bought or created). Or maybe you mean finding multiple tomes (again, how they were found doesn't matter)? Also, would a wizard (using Wish) be able to upgrade a tome created by a cleric (using Miracle)? Given that a tome created with Miracle has a strong evocation aura, while a tome created with Wish doesn't (presumably, it has a strong magic aura, but not of any school), a crafter should easily be able to tell the difference (and there might be a discernible difference between arcane and divine magic in the first place, anyway).


Yes, what I meant was: I found a +1 tome and used it. Next day I found another +1 tome which I can't use (unless I enchant it further, but the first +1 enhancement is still lost)

On a related note: normally, crafting cost is 1/2 the buying price, but the tomes have a crafting cost about 90% of the price. Is this a mistake or is there a reason that was given with the pricing?


They have the 25000 x enhancement material component of Wish added in. These things are just a specialized Wish in book form. The book is cheap, the Wish is regular price.


To expand on what Plausible Pseudonym says: the total price includes base item price, enhancing price and costly material components. The crafting materials cost half the enhancing price, but you still have to supply the other two in full. For instance, a +1 longsword costs 2165 gp (165 gp for a masterwork longsword and 2000 gp for the enhancement). For a tome, you need to cast 1 Wish or Miracle (with a costly material component of 25000 gp) for each +1. The enhancing price is 2500 gp for each +1 (I have no idea how this was decided, since we're talking about a 9th-level spell cast by a 17th-level caster - a potion for such a spell would cost 7650 gp).


Pathfinder Maps Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Except, of course, you can't make a 9th-level spell into a potion. A scroll, you could. A wizard scroll of wish would cost 3,825gp + 25,000gp = 28,825gp, or slightly more than the proper tome.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Aren't the tomes expended once used? Sure you can upgrade it if you do so prior to reading it, but you can't make a nonmagical book more magical without basically starting from scratch.

The alternative is to assume that the magic in the tome is not expended, and so one book could buff the entire party! *bites nails nervously*

EDIT: Which is clearly not allowed according to the item description.


@Wheldrake I didn't know that (I don't DM and rarely play casters). I went for potions because they're usable by anyone, unlike scrolls. The huge discount could be due to the use restriction and time needed to get the benefit.

@Ravingdork I guess most people assume you upgrade the tome while it is still magical (btw, my current DM said we couldn't upgrade a tome, so we passed on a +2 Manual of Bodily Health).


Tomes as treasure are really dumb. Either you crafted it yourself and used it immediately, or you crafted it for a paying customer and they used it immediately. No one would spend that much money and time just to have one sitting around in case they met someone they wanted to give a permanent (extremely expensive) bonus to.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Tomes as treasure are really dumb. Either you crafted it yourself and used it immediately, or you crafted it for a paying customer and they used it immediately. No one would spend that much money and time just to have one sitting around in case they met someone they wanted to give a permanent (extremely expensive) bonus to.

Maybe something happened to the reader (killed, kidnapped, etc.) or to the tome (stolen, lost, etc.) before they could finish reading it?

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