Okay, it sounds terrible, but I don't think it's actually that bad. Let's analyze it through a series of obvious issues.
-Swashbucklers aren't proficient with Heavy Armor. Solution: Fighter dip, maintains BAB and also gives a bonus feat.
-Swashbuckler Finesse; You can't really Weapon Finesse with Heavy Armor. However many of the deeds don't actually require you to finesse, just that you use a light or one handed piercing weapon. You could easily go strength with a heavy pick and still qualify for most of the deeds.
-Dodging Panache; not functional with Heavy Armor. It is a bit circumstantial though, and costs a panache point so I could imagine people not using it anyways.
-Nimble; You don't get the bonus. This is a downside but if you think about it, it makes being caught in your sleep a lot easier to manage.
The reason I do this is that I've had trouble finding classes for entry. There is bloodrager, but the spells are worthless then. Cavalier won't really be high enough level to need charisma for orders, and Paladin Hellknights are technically legal, but... You know the whole situation... with Cheliax... So what do you guys think? Could a Swashbuckler Hellknight work? Menacing Swordplay could easily make this an Intimidation Build. (As a Swift action frighten opponents)
You could decide to wear Hellknight Leather Armor, if you want to go this route.
You could decide to wear Hellknight Leather Armor, if you want to go this route.
I didn't know that was thing. Where did you get this? I still am interested in the whole heavy armor thing, but worth looking at.
It's from Path of the Hellknight. It's fairly recent.
Definitely pick it up if you're thinking of playing any sort of Hellknight.
Trust me, it's worth it.
Gun Tank/Bolt Ace - Gunslinger was a fun build. Going with Godclaw and taking Travel for the Pentamic Faith made for a very fast agile Hellknight. The fact that Travel is in the list from the same guy who has crossbow as his favored weapon added to the flavour. You will want Hellknight Leather and/or Celestial Hellknight Plate but either way it is fun (for me at least).
Why does Celestial Hellknight Plate feel like it should be an oxymoron? Regardless, I do want to try out a Strength Swashbuckler. Oh yeah, and I have another problem/solution.
-One hand must be free removing the ability to use a shield. An Unchained Monk dip will allow Crane Style, and INT won't be needed for Combat Expertise further down the road which allows me to exploit Swashbuckler even more. 4th level Swashbucklers just gain a bonus feat anyways which makes this a net gain.
Okay I guess at this point it isn't fair to call it a Swashbuckler Hellknight.
Swashbuckler 3/Fighter 1/Unchained Monk 1/Hellknight X
I had always seen the Hellknights as not being overly tolerant of non-uniformity within their ranks. (The whole lawful thing). I can see a a Hellknight Swashbuckler drowning in a sea of demerits.
Ok so for the Swashbuckler Finesse part, WHY are you bringing up Heavy Armor? Weapon Finesse doesn't care about your armor other than shields and Hellknight Armor doesn't come with one.
Fair point, I forgot that, but with Heavy armor you lose DEX to AC. This means Dexterity only functions for your attack bonus, which makes STR preferable due to not needing anything like slashing grace.
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Ok so for the Swashbuckler Finesse part, WHY are you bringing up Heavy Armor? Weapon Finesse doesn't care about your armor other than shields and Hellknight Armor doesn't come with one.Fair point, I forgot that, but with Heavy armor you lose DEX to AC. This means Dexterity only functions for your attack bonus, which makes STR preferable due to not needing anything like slashing grace.
Counter point would be Mithral Hellknight Plate and the Hellknight Armor 1-3 abilities that let you add more and more of your DEX back to your AC.
Counter point would be Mithral Hellknight Plate and the Hellknight Armor 1-3 abilities that let you add more and more of your DEX back to your AC.Ok so for the Swashbuckler Finesse part, WHY are you bringing up Heavy Armor? Weapon Finesse doesn't care about your armor other than shields and Hellknight Armor doesn't come with one.Fair point, I forgot that, but with Heavy armor you lose DEX to AC. This means Dexterity only functions for your attack bonus, which makes STR preferable due to not needing anything like slashing grace.
Oh it's a duel now. DEX to damage still requires a feat investment and likely Mithral Hellknight Plate is more expensive. (I don't have the book though.) Plus, all that can be a bit heavy.
All in good fun if I sound rude at all. And instead of counterpoint, I believe Parry and Riposte would be quite appropriate.
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Oh it's a duel now. DEX to damage still requires a feat investment and likely Mithral Hellknight Plate is more expensive. (I don't have the book though.) Plus, all that can be a bit heavy.
All in good fun if I sound rude at all. And instead of counterpoint, I believe Parry and Riposte would be quite appropriate.
Admittedly Mithral Hellknight would cost you 11K GP BUT, to Parry, would only be the weight of Medium Armor and, once you have HK Armor 3, would give you a +6 Dex to AC.
Plus I don't take it as Rude at all! We are both trying to help this fellow out with ideas. :)
Oh it's a duel now. DEX to damage still requires a feat investment and likely Mithral Hellknight Plate is more expensive. (I don't have the book though.) Plus, all that can be a bit heavy.
All in good fun if I sound rude at all. And instead of counterpoint, I believe Parry and Riposte would be quite appropriate.
Admittedly Mithral Hellknight would cost you 11K GP BUT, to Parry, would only be the weight of Medium Armor and, once you have HK Armor 3, would give you a +6 Dex to AC.
Plus I don't take it as Rude at all! We are both trying to help this fellow out with ideas. :)
Well, I am the fellow, which I realize makes me a bit stubborn. :p
*Bows honorably*
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Well, I am the fellow, which I realize makes me a bit stubborn. :pOh it's a duel now. DEX to damage still requires a feat investment and likely Mithral Hellknight Plate is more expensive. (I don't have the book though.) Plus, all that can be a bit heavy.
All in good fun if I sound rude at all. And instead of counterpoint, I believe Parry and Riposte would be quite appropriate.
Admittedly Mithral Hellknight would cost you 11K GP BUT, to Parry, would only be the weight of Medium Armor and, once you have HK Armor 3, would give you a +6 Dex to AC.
Plus I don't take it as Rude at all! We are both trying to help this fellow out with ideas. :)
Fair enough. But as I said, Mithral Hell Plate with HK Armor 3 would let you have a +9 armor bonus and +6 DEX for a total AC of 25 and a touch AC of 16 still.
Fair enough. But as I said, Mithral Hell Plate with HK Armor 3 would let you have a +9 armor bonus and +6 DEX for a total AC of 25 and a touch AC of 16 still.Well, I am the fellow, which I realize makes me a bit stubborn. :pOh it's a duel now. DEX to damage still requires a feat investment and likely Mithral Hellknight Plate is more expensive. (I don't have the book though.) Plus, all that can be a bit heavy.
All in good fun if I sound rude at all. And instead of counterpoint, I believe Parry and Riposte would be quite appropriate.
Admittedly Mithral Hellknight would cost you 11K GP BUT, to Parry, would only be the weight of Medium Armor and, once you have HK Armor 3, would give you a +6 Dex to AC.
Plus I don't take it as Rude at all! We are both trying to help this fellow out with ideas. :)
That seems a bit impractical though. That's +6 DEX that wouldn't apply until you have 11k to throw around. I guess until then you could just not wear armor, but.. Sounds like a high level build.
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That seems a bit impractical though. That's +6 DEX that wouldn't apply until you have 11k to throw around. I guess until then you could just not wear armor, but.. Sounds like a high level build.Fair enough. But as I said, Mithral Hell Plate with HK Armor 3 would let you have a +9 armor bonus and +6 DEX for a total AC of 25 and a touch AC of 16 still.Well, I am the fellow, which I realize makes me a bit stubborn. :pOh it's a duel now. DEX to damage still requires a feat investment and likely Mithral Hellknight Plate is more expensive. (I don't have the book though.) Plus, all that can be a bit heavy.
All in good fun if I sound rude at all. And instead of counterpoint, I believe Parry and Riposte would be quite appropriate.
Admittedly Mithral Hellknight would cost you 11K GP BUT, to Parry, would only be the weight of Medium Armor and, once you have HK Armor 3, would give you a +6 Dex to AC.
Plus I don't take it as Rude at all! We are both trying to help this fellow out with ideas. :)
If you are doing this in PFS, then let me point out that I had earned nearly 18K by the time I got to level 6 which, with a full BAB class, would be the soonest you could take levels in HK.