Familiar Archetype questions


Rules Questions


First: Do familiar archetypes follow the same stacking rules as class archetypes? I don't see any indications one way or the other.

Second: Does the Mauler archetype's Increased Strength ability count as "altering the familiar's intelligence score" for the purpose of archetype stacking? It notably does NOT contain the usual "this ability replaces/alters..." line.

Increased Strength (Ex) wrote:
At 3rd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a mauler's Strength score increases by 1. As a result of this ability, the familiar's Intelligence score remains 6; a mauler can never have an Intelligence score higher than 6.

Third: Let's assume for a second that familiar archetypes can stack, and that Mauler somehow doesn't alter the intelligence feature of the familiar. How would a Mauler/Sage's INT score be calculated?

Dazzling Intellect (Ex) wrote:

A sage's Intelligence score is always equal to 5 + its level, but the sage gains the additional natural armor increases of a familiar only half its level.

This ability alters the familiar's Intelligence score and natural armor adjustment.

An unusual contradiction. Its INT can never be higher than 6, but must always equal 5 + its level.

This is a no-brainer as far as RAI goes. The central RAW question, however, is: if an archetype implies that it replaces/alters an ability, but doesn't explicitly call it out as such, is the ability replaced?

Liberty's Edge

First: Yes, you have stacking rules as per usual archetypes.

Second: Almost any GM I've ever met would rule that it does indeed alter the familiar's intelligence score, even without that line.

Third: There would be no RAW as to how the INT score is calculated, as they're clearly not able to be stacked.


they don't imply anything they strait up say they change how a familiars int progresses AND both change the class skills. that is 100% raw. also to the best of my knowledge none of the familiar archetypes stack.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Sage and Figment do, unless I missed something.


Thanks for clearing that up. I've never seen an archetype that skips the "This ability replaces..." line like that.


the "this replaces" is something newer that they are trying to remember to do but don't always remember to do it. The rule is that it doesn't need that line to alter or replace something.


Bashamo wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up. I've never seen an archetype that skips the "This ability replaces..." line like that.

There are a bunch. The idea of "this alters..." text came after archetype's were introduced, so early ones lack it, as do archetypes where it was missed.


Somewhat related: If you have a wizard archetype that modifies your familiar, can you also give your familiar an archetype of its own? A Pact Wizard with a School Familiar, for instance. Or Spirit Binder/Figment (which seems kind of cool concept-wise, but would it work?). Spirit Binder in particular does stuff to your familiar's stats…


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
PiccoloBard wrote:
Somewhat related: If you have a wizard archetype that modifies your familiar, can you also give your familiar an archetype of its own? A Pact Wizard with a School Familiar, for instance. Or Spirit Binder/Figment (which seems kind of cool concept-wise, but would it work?). Spirit Binder in particular does stuff to your familiar's stats…

I would assume that you can use any familiar archetype that does not alter or replace a feature of your familiar that is already altered or replaced by your wizard archetype, if any such familiar archetype existd.


school familiar is an archetype.


Pathfinder Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Even easier then. Compare the School Familiar arechtype with whatever other archetype you want to take and look for overlaps of any kind.


Makes sense!


School Familiar explicitly rules out other familiar archetypes, which is an unusual situation. It doesn't stack with anything because it says so, rather than because of modifying anything in particular that conflicts.

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