Jack of All trades / constant class dipping.

[SorrySleeping]

One of my friends had an interesting idea. Constant class dipping, staying a maximum of 2 through 4 levels (undecided yet what the max will be, will be set by GM), with a minimum of two (levels do not have to be consecutive).

Stats have yet to be rolled and will likely be 24d6 to use on my stats as I please. GM will interven on stat rolls that are garbage, hoping to either have no sub 10 stats, or possibly 1 if the other stats are good enough. Only other ruling is that fighters lose their profiencent masteries.

My question is, what is the best way to go through leveling? I was thinking either make a wizard approach, start monk for wis into ac and go magus for some spell/combo attack goodness, and wizard after for physical enhancing spells like enlarge and bulls strength. The other option would be druid and barbarian for wild shape and rage, picking up some pally levels for lay on hands.

[The Raven Black]

I would say max Charisma and get Sorcerer, Oracle and Paladin goodness including access to wands for almost all spells, then proceed to pile on full BAB classes, especially those with corresponding feats for Extra class feature

Prestige classes might be relevant too especially the ones that cap at 5 levels if you can get your GM to allow this number

And here I now feel the urge to build such a character :-)

[Paradozen]

2 levels of Oracle (Lunar) would be a good starting point. Take the Charisma to AC revelation, and maybe extra revelation for moonlight bridge (incredibly useful). Then go with 2 levels of Divine Hunter Paladin for Divine Grace, Smite, and Precise Shot. After that, drop your armor for 3 levels of Draconic Sorcerer, and mage armor as a spell. Next comes 4 levels of Dragon Disciple for +4 STR, +2 AC, HP to offset the drop from sorcerer levels, and most importantly, +3 levels to sorcerer spellcasting. Now take 4 levels of Arcane Archer to get awesome stuff with your bow, then 4 levels of Eldritch Knight. Focus on being an archer. Change the oracle mystery if you think your dex will be higher than your charisma.

[Chess Pwn]

you can make a solid character by just taking 1 level of Full BAB classes. Then there are a few 3/4th BAB classes that have strong lv1 dips that increase or don't reduce your combat prowess.

[SorrySleeping]

Getting a solid BAB will be tough, since dipping into 3/4th BAB classes two levels each actually nets you only 1/2 BAB since they dont gain anything for the first level.

Also need to take at least two levels per class, not 1.

[thistledown]

I've made one of these. My "Samurai" is only allowed 1 level in any class. He's basically a martial character with some buffs.

1 Barbarian (Urban) power attack
2 magus (Kensai, Card Caster)
3 samurai (Sword Saint) furious focus
4 hunter (Feral Hunter)
5 swashbuckler (Inspired Blade) extra rage
6 gunslinger (Bolt Ace, Gun Tank)
retrain 4 Bloodrager (steelblood)
7 fighter (Lore Warden) furious finish, vital strike
8 Occultist (Battle Host)
9 Cleric (Varisian Pilgrim: Travel & Law) weapon versatility
10 Wizard (Foresight School)

at 11 I might take hunter again, or brawler. The retraining out was so I'd have bab 6 for vital strike at level 7. Urban barbarian probably wasn't the best choice, but oh well.

[The Guy With A Face]

Nature oracle gives you access to Nature's Whispers. Its a better version of Prophetic Armor (lunar oracle) because it applies to CMD as well.

[SorrySleeping]

The Guy With A Face wrote:

Nature oracle gives you access to Nature's Whispers. Its a better version of Prophetic Armor (lunar oracle) because it applies to CMD as well.

But Lunar Oracle gives to Reflex over CMD. Pally, Oracle, and Sorcerer do not have good Reflex saves. At level 6 taking two of each, you have 3/0/9 to your Fort/Reflex/Will saves.

GM has said he will be allowing some third party stuff, and mentioned specifically Path of War, So I'll be taking some levels in that. At level 10, going 2 Oracle - 2 Pally - 1 Warlord - 2 Sorcerer - 1 Warlord - 1 Sorcerer - 1 Dragon Disciple, I have 1 Reflex save. My Fortitude save will be on par with a 10th level class at that point and my Will save will be above average.

Anything after the Dragon Disciple needs to be a full BAB, otherwise I won't be able to hit 16 BAB.

My plan is get the Merciful Curse as Oracle and go to Pally for some good healing, Warlord for Maneuvers, Sorcerer for some good Dragon stuff, and finish off in other classes.

[Qaianna]

Ow, my caster level.

Seriously, with this, the best you're getting is spell level 2 out of most casting classes. Wands and scrolls can go so far but if you average one Summon Monster a day, it'll add up in scroll (or wand for SM 1-4) coosts.

Whether this is feasible or not is up to the campaign, but keep that in mind.

[Secret Wizard]

Just for the record, getting 2 levels in each class will not make you a jack of all trades. As levels progress, you'll discover yourself being good at making an impression of a level 2 member of each of those classes, but never good enough to even consider yourself a mediocre member of that class.

If you want to be a jack of all trades, play a jack of all trades class! Alchemist, Skalds, Inquisitors and Bards are probably the best at that.

[Redelia]

A few suggestions:
1. Beg and plead your GM into allowing fractional BAB from unchained rules. This could make a huge difference in total BAB if you take many 3/4 BAB classes.

2. Look for class features that stack. For instance, many kinds of sneak attack stack, so if you take multiple classes with sneak attack, you can get some of the benefit of staying with one class longer.

If you're allowed to take three levels in a single class, this could be a perfect time for a mystic theurge. Three levels wizard, three levels cleric, and then three levels mystic theurge gets you casting almost like a 6th level cleric and wizard; this is probably the only way to get access to spells above second level.

[Charon's Little Helper]

1 Swash / 2 paladin / 2 Umonk / 1 Snakebite Striker / 2 Fighter / 2 Ranger

Still not great - but a decent martial.

[illyume]

Potentially:

1 rogue / 3 wizard (pick up accomplished sneak attacker somewhere during this as well) / 2 arcane trickster, 2 harrower, 2 loremaster, 2 collegiate arcanist, 2 natural alchemist, ....

Basically, the 1 rogue / 3 wizard with accomplished sneak attacker lets you qualify for arcane trickster. From there, keep dipping into prestige classes that provide full spell progression.

You won't ever get any really strong class abilities and you won't ever become a true jack of all trades, but at least you're only one level behind on full spellcasting.

[Leitner]

I'd probably try for a martial character. Maybe start with something like 2 levels of inspired blade swashbuckler, 2 levels of alchemist, urban barbarian, fighter, ranger, pally, etc.

You'll end up with fairly high bab, the ability to boost your dex up considerably between mutagen and controlled rage, and honestly your saves aren't even too bad considering you'd have decent charisma divine grace and a bunch of bonus feats from your various fighter/monk/ranger dips.

Hard to say if you wouldn't be better off just going straight into one class but it could certainly do alright.

[Majuba]

I did this in 3.0 and did:
Rogue 3 (halfling)
Monk 2,
Barb 2,
Fighter 2,
Cleric 2
Wizard 2
Psion 3
Psychic Warrior 2
then back to Rogue for three more and kn to Guardian Paramount (epicprestige class).

Monk before Barb!

Great defenses, lots of mobility options, and misc tricks up my sleeve.

[Scott Wilhelm]

SorrySleeping wrote:

One of my friends had an interesting idea. Constant class dipping, staying a maximum of 2 through 4 levels (undecided yet what the max will be, will be set by GM), with a minimum of two (levels do not have to be consecutive).

So you are describing like the only kind of character I've been making for the past several years. I don't exactly try for this, it just works out that way.

I could furnish you with a lot of specific builds if you want.

What I do is look at Feats, spells, and special abilities that I think are cool alone or in combination, then I figure out how to fit them together, and that usually means mapping out levels of this and that. I want this feat as soon as possible but I can't take it until I have X ranks on some skill or a BAB of Y. I usually end up with some very complicated characters that can sometimes do some impressive things.

I haven't found my martial characters to suffer greatly from reduction in BAB. But I have found their saving throw bonuses can get really quite high. When the bad guy poisons the wine, my characters keep drinking.

SorrySleeping wrote:

My question is, what is the best way to go through leveling?

What is the context of this character build: is this a PFS character? How available are magic items? To what extent will you be able to vet your ideas with your GM before you map out your character? And to what extent will you be able to coordinate character building with your fellow players?

SorrySleeping wrote:

I was thinking either make a wizard approach, start monk for wis into ac and go magus for some spell/combo attack goodness, and wizard after for physical enhancing spells like enlarge and bulls strength. The other option would be druid and barbarian for wild shape and rage, picking up some pally levels for lay on hands.

Well, that depends entirely on what you want. What do you want your character to be able to do in a battlefield, at a village bazaar, in a tavern, or in a royal court?

At the same time, browse through Feats, Spells, and special abilities and find things that turn up the corners of your mouth in an evil, Grinchy grin, and figure out how to make those things happen within the rules, and then your character's personality will probably start to form.

Remember that aggressively designed characters tend to have aggressive weaknesses to go along with their aggressive strengths. Troubleshoot your character in advance. Pay attention to how much your cool effects cost, and how your character will be acting in different situations.

[Scott Wilhelm]

SorrySleeping wrote:

GM has said he will be allowing some third party stuff,

Oh, dear.

Is your GM allowing 3.5 or 3.0 stuff? Any other d20 stuff?

[SorrySleeping]

Well, this is a week late bump, but whatever.

My GM is refusing to do the Unchained fraction BAB rules. No DnD stuff, but pretty much all other Pathfinder stuff is good, I just have to run it by him first. For sure, anything by DreamScarred Press (Psionics and Path of War) is good without question.

As for magical items, SOL on building/crafting them ourself. We have a Psychic Warrior and an Oracle of Fitness. This is a campaign with a LOT of merchants through the way, with a lot of diverse gear. We have access through most of it, and we already have a tie with a higher end merchant (although he is 'only' a tailor), meaning he will likely give us discounts as certain things come up.

I've decided to take up a monk-esk class with this. My plan is this.

Enlightened Paladin 2
Nature's Oracle 2
Steelfist Commando Warlord 1
Aegis 2
Warlord 1
Monk of Many Styles/Unchained 3
Sorcerer 2
Dragon Discipline 2
Blade Caster/Other Prestige of Choice 2
Dragon Discipline 2
Warlord 1

So, using Greater Unarmed Strike from Flaming Crab Games, I get 2 monk levels from Paladin, 3 from Monk, (17/2) 8 levels from everything else. This puts my damage die at 2d6. Using Dragon Style and the Greater Unarmed damage, I apply twice my Strength to all attacks and 2.5x strength to my first hit in a turn.

Aegis can give me a +4 Str with Austral Armor, Dragon Discipline can give me a +4 Str as well. I managed to start with 20 Str. (GM was nice, stats were one given 18, other 5 were 4d6 drop the lowest)

With Sorcerer's Claws, Monk's non hand melee attacks, and Dragon Discipline's bite, I can get 7 attacks off in a full round, and because of Greater Unarmed Strike and Feral Combat Training, I believe my Claws/Bite deal the same damage with Str as my fists do. I'm not sure if I want to switch Aegis/Monk with the Sorcerer/Dragon Discipline levels. Most of the spells will be utility and buffing anyways.

[Scott Wilhelm]

SorrySleeping wrote:

Feral Combat Training, I believe my Claws/Bite deal the same damage with Str as my fists do.

Feral Combat Training has been updated. It no longer grants you the ability to apply your Monk Unarmed Strike Damage to your Natural Attacks. It may well be that your GM is using the older rule set, and so that part of your build is still in business. Double check with your GM. If you can't use FCT the way you want to, there are still methods.

Is 4 levels a real maximum? If you can take 5 levels in Aegis, you can get 2 extra arms that you could attack/use weapons with.

Sorcerer's claws aren't the best. Alchemists have a Discovery called Feral Mutagen, which gives claws and a bite that last for like 10 minutes. If you want to get a lot of natural attacks and remain more or less in humanoid form, I'd start with being a Tengu. You can start with Claws and Bite. If you take a level in White Haired Witch, you can get a Hair Attack. Double check with your GM to make sure he doesn't get cute and say "Tengus don't have hair...." If you think it is possible, you might acquire or fabricate a Helm of the Mammoth Lord, and get a Gore Attack. There is a magic item, the Fleshwarped Whip, that gives you a Tail Attack.

If you can't use Monk Levels to increase the damage of your Natural Attacks, you can still use levels in Warpriest. Rather than having to take Weapon Focus, and Feral Combat Training for each of your 4 Natural Attacks, you only need to take Weapon Focus, or worship some diety that likes Natural Attacks.

Another way to increase your damage/attack is through Sneak Attacking. Ninjas, Slayers, and Brawlers can all help you rack up Sneak Attack Damage Dice. And there are the feats Precise Strike and Accomplished Sneak Attacker. Maybe also the Sap Feats. If you say, take a level in Arcanist and take the Dimensional Hop Feat, you can almost always Flank your opponents. If you can take Quick and Greater dirty tricks, you can Blind your opponents and lock in your SAD that way.

White Hair gives you a Free Grappling Attack. If you wear Armor Spikes, you get to do an extra 1d6 Damage with every successful Grapple, perhaps releasing them as a Free Action. Here's the thing, though: since the Grapple check is a seperate attack roll, if it's successful, that means your Armor Spikes will do Sneak Attack Damage, too! If you take the Hamatula Strike Feat, all your Piercing Attacks will score Free Grapple Attacks just like the White Hair does, getting your Gore and Bite attacks in on the fun. If you take the Snake Style Feat, your Unarmed Strikes will do Piercing Damage, triggering HS for those, too. If you then take Feral Combat Training for your Claws, they get Snake Style, and therefore Hamatula Strike.

So what are we talking about here?
Hair + Spikes
Gore + Spikes
Bite + Spikes
2Claws + 2Spikes
2Unarmes Strikes + 2Spikes

So your Full Attack will have 14 attacks/round, all of them to doing Sneak Attack Damage once you have your opponent Blinded or Flanked.

Warpriest Sacred Weapon Damage goes from 1d6 to 1d8 at level 5. If you take a level in Ranger or Druid, you might acquire a Wand of Strong Jaw, which makes your Natural Attacks inflict damage as if you were 2 sizes bigger, so each attack would do 2 or 3d6, depending on whether or not you are allowed to take that 5th level in Warpriest.

[SorrySleeping]

Feral Combat Training does say that you can use any feat that has Improved Unarmed as a prereq, including the third party feat Greater Unarmed Damage from Flaming Crab.

4 levels is a max, made by myself and after what the GM saw of my build, reinforced by the GM.

I'm already in the campaign now, we just got third level and I'm currently paladin 2 > oracle 1.

[Scott Wilhelm]

SorrySleeping wrote:

Feral Combat Training does say that you can use any feat that has Improved Unarmed as a prereq, including the third party feat Greater Unarmed Damage from Flaming Crab.

Pretty sneaky, sis.

[Monkerdoodle]

To be fair, in order to get Jack of All Trades one must take 10 levels of bard.....

[DungeonmasterCal]

I once saw on the Enworld boards a 20th level character build using that many classes and prestige classes that had +0 BAB but absolutely crazy saving throws. Still not sure how they did it, but it was cool in its own way.

[SorrySleeping]

Scott Wilhelm wrote:

SorrySleeping wrote:

Feral Combat Training does say that you can use any feat that has Improved Unarmed as a prereq, including the third party feat Greater Unarmed Damage from Flaming Crab.

Pretty sneaky, sis.

I attempt. My claws will deal 1 dice less than the Monk due to actually taking a few monk levels, but still get 1.5x str to hit according to GM Ruling.

Monkerdoodle wrote:

To be fair, in order to get Jack of All Trades one must take 10 levels of bard.....

Darn. Better pack in the character and roll a normal Bard.