PFS Legal only please.
So I've decided to build a Channel based character for my first Pathfinder character, and I was looking for some advice. They seem fun to play with and wanted some advice for the build I'm currently using.
One of the big questions is, should I pick Negative or Positive first? Keeping in mind I will pick both eventually, one of them will be unlocked level 3 and I can't use both full effect until level 7. Which one would be more useful? The whole idea of this build is knowledge for knowledge's sake. He is going to be the bookworm (and possible face), while helping his allies through buffs and channel energy tricks. He's more so a buffer/debuffer than flat out damage dealer. Please take a look at this build, and give me any advice possible.
Anyway, here is the build so far.
Name: Emrys the Scribe
Race: Human
- Comprehensive Education (Replaces Skilled)
- Bonus Feat
- +2 Any (CHA)
STR: 7 (-2)
DEX: 12 (+1)
CON: 13 (+1)
INT: 14 (+2)
WIS: 15 (+2)
CHA: 17 (+3)
Class: Cleric (Cloistered Cleric) VMC Bard
Trait 1: Exalted of the Society (Cleric, Society)
Trait 2: Historian (Human)
With all this, I'm gaining +12 to all Knowledge checks at level 3, +13 History thanks to Bardic Knowledge +2, Historian (giving me +1 to Bardic Knowledge), Comprehensive Education giving me +1 to all knowledge checks, and Breath of Knowledge giving me +2. +2 for Intelligence, and History gets +1 Trait Bonus (the other applies to Bardic Knowledge, not for Knowledge checks themselves, up for interpretation).
Now my question is, how should I proceed from here? I mainly want to use Channel Energy as my "Character Gimmick", while buffing my allies however/whenever I can. I'm honestly thinking of sticking with Nethys as my Deity cuz I love his flavor.
Honestly getting sleepy, but I'd love some advice for making this character combat ready. (Even making him an "aid another" bot if need be).
Also - I really want this character to be a Cleric, so I'd prefer not to hear a class change as the character option.
You can pick between Magic, Protection and Knowledge domains for a variant channeling ability. While not the best, they are not terrible either.
Most channeling feats are outright horrible. They are a far cry from the 3.5 feats which made turn undead useful.
The effect from channeling is also weak, no matter what kind you use. When I say weak, I speak of the discrepance between the HP people have and the 1d6/2 levels channeling does, which is also halved by a save. When you meet a group of mobs of 6 HD each, you do 3d6 or half - that is 5 or 10 damage on average. With 6 HD you have to expect around 45 hp per mob, so the effect is underwhelming.
That said, let's go to the feats.
Selective Channeling: that is the only one I consider important. I want neither to heal the enemy, nor to harm my allies, and be it only 10 hp.
Extra Channels: if you have alternate effects out of your channels, which you use often, then yes.
Monster type feats: they allow your channel to work on another monstertype per feat. Given that you are feat starved and the power of channeling I would not touch them with a 10' pole.
Change area of channeling: why you would want a ray instead of an AE is beyond me. Same goes for things like channel smite, where you spend the channel on a single foe, *if* you hit, and he can still save for half (and it doesn't count for crits either).
Channeled Blessing: this can be worthwhile.
Fateful Channel: good effect, if you have the CHA.
Trailblazing Channel: interesting, if difficult terrain happens often (or your group uses it)
Turn Undead: oh god, yes, make them flee and get everyone in the dungeon alerted
Command Undead: may or may not work for you; my group hates undead, for example
One of the problems is that channeling is somewhat tied to CHA. You probably need at least 14 to make some options worthwhile, and 16 would be better. The other big one is that you get no bonus feats whatsoever like many other classes. So you can afford only that many channeling feats.
I have good news and bad news!
Bad news first: I'm fairly certain VMC is not PFS legal.
Good news: There is a great thread about exactly this Channel Thread
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First off, VMC isn't PFS-legal, so Bardic Knolwedge is out. On the other hand, if you're OK with worshipping Irori, you can take one of those feats you just freed up and pick up Deific Obedience for a +4(!) sacred bonus to all Knowledges.
Also, Breadth of Experience isn't allowed for humans. You could switch to a Dwarf, Elf, or Gnome (gnome would be best with the Charisma boost), or swap it out for Dilettante, which would still be pretty good if you want to spread your skills around instead of hyper-focusing on specific Knowledges.
I don't know uch about PFS, but following up on RainyDayNinja's comment, Irori is probably a reasonably good fit for the character concept, as well, given that one of his domains is Knowledge.
Plus, Wisdom in the Flesh could be a great trait to apply your high Wisdom score to a Strength or Dexterity based skill (probably Strength, given how hard it's been dumped for this character concept). Not sure you'll be willing to pass up one of your other traits, though...
EDIT: And if you're getting Deific Obedience, you might want to look at the Evangelist Prestige Class (assuming that's PFS-legal). While it does involve a single llevel loss of spell/ability progression, you afterwards get full progression back, in addition to its other abilities, including 6+INT skills points per level.
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As said before, VMC is not PFS legal unfortunately, and neither is Breadth of Experience legal to take for humans.
As of your choice of Deity, it is fine. Nethys does not offer much though, and Irori would be mechanically better, but you say you like his flavor, so who am I to try and change your mind. He does give access to a nice Trait. With no Bardic Performance, there is realy no need to take the Historian Trait. Underlying Principles gives you a +1 on UMD and makes it a class skill. As you have already a moderately high Charisma modifier, this could be a nice boon.
I see the reason for your choice to pick the Cloistered Cleirc archetype. It grants a 4+Int amount of skil points and half your level on knowledge checks. As you are building the knowledge cleric, this is not a bad decision. Just be aware that Diminished Spellcasting is a nasty handicap. Not world-ending, but nasty still. Since you are also Charisma focused, it will come up more often than not, so carry wands of simple buff spells to use instead (Bless is a very good wand early on, and still usable later in the game). Furthermore, be aware that in PFS you do not gain Scribe Scroll on 4th level, but Spell Focus.
As you wish to be channel focused, please be aware that if you wish it to be damage focused, you will find out that it is quite lackluster. You need some serious investment on that (Charsima as high as possible for the save DC, Feats, maybe even be a different race with a FCB to channel damage) if you wish to deal more than 20% damage on the enemy's health. Most use comes out of Variant Channeling, but Nethys's options are not that brilliant. His only given choice is Magic Variant channeling, whose Heal variant can be handy on higher levels, but the Harm version only lasts 1 round and is yet again based on your save DC. Through the use of the Channeling Variance feat, you can variant channel 3 times a day instead of always, and have more options to choose from (Protection, Destruction and Knowledge are added). Out of these, I would say Protection is the handiest on lower levels, but they are still a bit lackluster.
It is very important to have a secondary function, and I see you took Buffing/Debuffing. That is a good choise, and people will love you for it.
As for feats, the following are highly recommended: Selective Channeling, because you do not want to heal your opponents/harm your friends. Quick Channel, because action econemy is king. Improved Channel to rack up that save DC.
Since you are taking Versatile Channeling to channel both positive and negative, I also recommend http://archivesofnethys.com/FeatDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Extra%20Channel]Extra Channel. Normally I would not, because in PFS you do not have that much fights a day. But since you have two things that take the same resource, it might be handy just in case. As for Command/Turn Undead, only take those if you a fairly confident in your save DC. Unfortunately, undead have fairly decent Will saves (their best save), and the stronger undead also come packing with Channel Resistance (bonus on there saves).
Finally, for the choice of positive/negative first, I would go for positive. Not only is the healing nice to have higher, you'll also gain access to Channeled Revival. Close distance Breath of Life is a very nice thing to have.
Holy Vindicator helps boost channeling... idk if it's legal though
I'm sorry for not replying guys, I've been busy burning through Pokemon Go and getting ready for Monster Hunter Generations. Right now is a bad time for a gamer trying to RP and game at the same time...
Darn it, I really wanted to play a massive knowledge check Cleric to poke around with High Int, Wis, and Cha.... I was looking around, and I'm curious, would it be worth running a Mystic Theurge class for a priest of Nethys?
I want something functional, so it isn't an ball and chain to the rest of the party, but at the same time I really want to make a Cleric of Nethys more than anything else. I was saving the Irori for my Paladin/Monk combo (For obvious reasons).
Channel Based focus, would it be better to go Cleric 5, EoB 2, HV 5 or Cleric 5, EoD 5, HV 2? I'm thinking of dumping strength hard, cuz I'm never a fan of strong man characters (preferring Dex or Int or Wis).
I've been having second thoughts on a Cleric though looking at how complicated these seem to be.... Any suggestions for a first time Pathfinder Society player? Is there a complete list of mechanics and functions not allowed? So I don't have to cherry pick through every book finding what mechanics are a no go?
Flavorwise, Mystic Theurge is a fantastic prestige class for a priest of Nethys. In practice, I don't think it usually works out very well.
IMO, it is hard to be a ball and chain as a cleric. Your spell list alone gives you quite a bit of flexibility.
I took a crack at making a cleric of Nethys for you. This is how I would make one if I were pursuing this concept.
Here is what I've got:
Human Scroll Scholar Cleric of Nethys
Racial Trait: Focused Study instead of Bonus Feat
Domains: Knowledge (gives all knowledge skills as class skills and a nifty touch attack of knowledge) and Magic (useful domain spells)
Str 10
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 14
Cha 14
This gives you 2 for class + 3 for int + 1 for FCB + 1 for skilled = 7 skill points every level.
Your level up ability points should go into wisdom so you can cast your higher level spells and then you can get whatever sort of stat boost headband you want.
Your wisdom and charisma might seem low, but if you pursue buffing/summoning/channeling you'll be just fine.
Look at Scroll Scholar. Yes, you lose one die of channeling and a 4th level spell/day. That is a little painful, but you will still be a functional character and be pretty good at knowledge.
Diligent Student gives you 1/2 your cleric level to one knowledge. At 5th and 10th, you can pick an additional one to get the bonus. Focused Study (the human racial thingy) gives you skill focus at 1st and 8th. This should help keep your knowledge relevant.
For feats, I'd recommend fey foundling at first (to boost self healing) and selective channel at third. When you get the spell shield other, you can be an HP battery for somebody (people love that). While your HP isn't anything special, being able to self heal for so much will be helpful.
EDIT: I got really into this, don't judge me.
Example skills at a couple levels:
I chose Arcana for skill focus and Planes as your first diligent student bonus. These can be arranged however you like.
Level 1
Arcana 10
Nature 7
Planes 8
Local 7
Religion 7
Diplomacy 6
History 7
I recommend "floating" your 7th skill point every level so you can put one point in the other knowledge skills as you level. At first level, let's say you put it in History.
Level 5
Arcana 14
Nature 10
Planes 12
Local 10
Religion 12
Diplomacy 9
History 7
Dungeoneering 7
Nobility 7
Geography 7
Your floating skill point has gone into new knowledge, (allowing you to roll for them). At level 5, you get to pick a new diligent student bonus. Let's say you went with Religion, but this can be any other knowledge you like.
Level 10
Arcana 22
Nature 22
Planes 21
Local 21
Religion 21
Diplomacy 14
History 7
Dungeoneering 11
Nobility 7
Geography 7
Engineering 7
Your floating skill point has picked up the last knowledge you were missing, and then I dumped the rest into dungeoneering. At this point, you have 3 skills receiving your diligent student bonus (Local, Planes, and Religion). Your second skill focus has appeared and it was placed into Nature. Additionally, the skill focus bonus has increased to +6.
This doesn't include items either btw.
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To the OP: I personally wouldn't dump strength on a medium sized race. Strength is also your carrying capacity, and without the "bonus" of being small, I would keep strength around 10.
As for Gummy Bear's example Cleric, it looks quite good. The Scroll Scholar might indeed be the perfect fit for a Cleric of Nethys. It does exactly what you want at it's basis, except for the Channel focus bit (can be worked around with feats/gear). I'm just going to try and add a couple of things that might be useful.
First of all, a nice trait out of PPC: Undead Slayer's Handbook: Forbidden Knowledge. This region trait allows you to completely ignore Knowledge Planes, since you may substitute it for a Knowledge Religion or History check. It opens up a lot of skill points in Gummy Bear's build that can be used on other knowledge skills or as "floating skill". You do have to have a flavor history that you were in Geb (undead nation) once, but you can roleplay that as being rescued from the nation as a child.
For the domains, I too would go for Knowledge (for the same reason as Gummy Bear), but would substitute the Magic Domain for its Divine Subdomain. The Scroll Scholar loses 1 of its lvl 1 domain abilities, and I don't see this build use Hand of the Acolyte. But neither see I see it use Lore Keeper. It is a touch attack and although nifty, requires this build to be on the frontline to use consistently. I doubt you want to be there if you use Shield Other tactics. I would therefore suggest to ditch the Lore Keeper lvl 1 domain ability and take the Divine subdomain lvl 1 domain ability Divine Vessel. This ability allows you to grant allies, who were within 15ft at activation, a +2 untyped bonus on their next attack/skill/ability check for their upcoming round. Activating this ability is a swift action after you have been affected by a divine spell (so cast wide ranged buff spell, include yourself, activate ability as swift).
@ Gummy Bear - Hm... I think I'll go with that build honestly. I was reading more of the Mystic Theurge during break at work, and I've come to the conclusion it kind of sucks until 10th level. I love your build though, I'm currently looking to see if there are any Stacking Archetypes that would work with it to with Thematically. I'm a little sad that the Cloister Cleric doesn't stack with the Scroll Scholar archetype, as it would possibly lead to the best knowledge based character I've ever seen. I'm a little sad that Comprehensive Education isn't allowed, it would make a nifty combo with the Cleric for a free and easy +1. I'm honestly having trouble finding any other race to play but Human, lol.
I guess I'll make my second character a Human Alchemist who has an obsession with the study of Lycanthropy and uses Beastmorph Chemist for the werewolfism. (Anyone know if they will ever make another Boon for Skinwalkers? Or where I can purchase Skinwalker boons?).
Looking at the Cleric Class, are there any Archetypes that stack? It looks like 100% of them change Cleric Domains and make it impossible for them to stack with each other....
@ Mr. Bonkers - I like that idea... I've been looking through Geb and I've not seen anything that would make it so I would need to be "saved" from Geb. From what I read, they seem quite reasonable. If anything, they are only evil because of the inherent evil of the Undead, and their law preventing Channeling Positive energy is basically like the royal guards from a living city saying "HEY, STOP HURTING PEOPLE WITH BAD CHANNEL ENERGY!". Am I missing something about Geb, that would stop me from going "Hey Guys, I'm here to study. I've got gold and trade with me if you let me in?" Its so much easier to appeal to Lawful evil than it is to Chaotic evil after all.
I'll look around some more, but most likely I'll end up making something like Gummy Bear's build. I'll post something when I have a full thing written down. ^-^ Thanks again.
That trait frees up so many points! I love it. I need to write that one down, that's pretty easy to fit in too.
Humans make a lot of builds easier, especially at low levels where feats are scarce. I find that most of my builds hinge on 2-3 feats so having that second feat is a huge plus. At higher levels there is less of a difference, but I find it all depends on your patience and build. For PFS I force myself to have no more than two of a certain race so I branch out, but I digress.
There are skinwalker boons around, they are usually GM awards for GMing at conventions iirc. Purchasing boons is frowned upon, but there is a boon trading thread on the PFS General Discussion Board.
In my experience, you pretty much just pick one archetype for a cleric and that's it. Variant channeling should work with some of them, but only certain deities have useful variants (most are fairly situational).
Don't look too close at the cleric archetypes, they are more or less lackluster.
Someone went to great lengths to make sure that channeling stays mediocre, no matter what you do.
There is an archetype (divine scourge) which trades in channeling for witch hexes, who is not bad :)
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@ TheMonkeyFish - My vision of the position of the living might have been skewed due to my experience with the country. Now that I read upon it, there is also a third caste besides the dead and the chattel, namely the quick (living not meant as food). I was mostly confronted with the chattel in the form as humanoids penned together as foodsource (it was a major "farm"). But if your character belonged to the quick caste, or was a visitor who was lucky enough to not fall victim to someone who ignored the Dead Laws, it is quite reasonable to take that trait without having to have been "rescued".
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Don't look too close at the cleric archetypes, they are more or less lackluster.
Someone went to great lengths to make sure that channeling stays mediocre, no matter what you do.There is an archetype (divine scourge) which trades in channeling for witch hexes, who is not bad :)
I like mendevian cleric archetype. Trade out a domain for Heavy Armor and some bonus feats.
As for channeling... same things I said last week
Don't worry about whether channeling can "undo" all the HP that were done in a round. It's useful as a counter to area effect attacks, as a stop gap measure to keep your damage dealers going for one more round, or in situations where you just can't reach your party members for some reason.
Negative channeling is kind of the same way. It's great for softening up a bunch of mooks or triggering multiple morale conditions at the same time. It's nice against swarms, and it's perfect for when you're surrounded and don't want to take an AoO from casting a spell. Grappled or swallowed whole? Negative channel for the win!