Enchantment spell vs. enchantment spell already in effect


Rules Questions


Got a question regarding a scenario where an animal is already under a mind-affecting enchantment spell by an adversary and I am attempting to affect the animal with my own mind-affecting enchantment spell. How would this be determined? The books don't seem to be clear on this, unless I missed it (likely). I don't think spell DC vs spell DC would be right. Spellcraft check? Could use any help. Thanks!

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Animal resists your spell as normal. If affected, you then use an opposed charisma check to determine which orders the animal obeys.

Multiple Mental Control Effects

Sometimes magical effects that establish mental control render each other irrelevant, such as spells that remove the subject's ability to act. Mental controls that don't remove the recipient's ability to act usually do not interfere with each other. If a creature is under the mental control of two or more creatures, it tends to obey each to the best of its ability, and to the extent of the control each effect allows. If the controlled creature receives conflicting orders simultaneously, the competing controllers must make opposed Charisma checks to determine which one the creature obeys.


In the event mind control comes into conflict, you and the caster of the original spell make opposed Charisma checks, with the winner exerting their will over the poor victim.

Note that this applies, on a per order basis, when the orders come into direct conflict. If your orders don't clash with theirs, the victim attempts to carry out both.


Hmm, high-charisma spellcaster Dominates other party members with orders to ignore all other outside orders besides his own, and otherwise act normally.

Cheap mental protection?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
_Ozy_ wrote:

Hmm, high-charisma spellcaster Dominates other party members with orders to ignore all other outside orders besides his own, and otherwise act normally.

Cheap mental protection?

I guess, but since a cracked clear spindle ioun stone in a wayfinder is only 1500gp and gives you the effect of Protection from Evil against mind control it's also cheap and effective.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

And doesn't involve trusting that the charismatic sorcerer won't do anything improper.

In any event, Dominated characters are still not as free as non-dominated ones; even if given express orders to act as if normal, it's still not their own free will, and you can still make Sense Motive checks to notice that their movements are signs of Domination.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Saethori wrote:

And doesn't involve trusting that the charismatic sorcerer won't do anything improper.

In any event, Dominated characters are still not as free as non-dominated ones; even if given express orders to act as if normal, it's still not their own free will, and you can still make Sense Motive checks to notice that their movements are signs of Domination.

I think Ultimate Intrigue specified that's not the case. The check to spot influence is easy, but can only be done when the influence is in effect.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thanks for the answers. The PC in question is a Shaman, so would that be WIS vs. the opposing spell-casters applicable attribute? Or using CHA anyway?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Grindstone wrote:
Thanks for the answers. The PC in question is a Shaman, so would that be WIS vs. the opposing spell-casters applicable attribute? Or using CHA anyway?

It's still cha vs cha. It doesn't default to your main casting stat so if the other caster is cha-based then he has an advantage in most cases.

Liberty's Edge

Plausible Pseudonym wrote:
Saethori wrote:

And doesn't involve trusting that the charismatic sorcerer won't do anything improper.

In any event, Dominated characters are still not as free as non-dominated ones; even if given express orders to act as if normal, it's still not their own free will, and you can still make Sense Motive checks to notice that their movements are signs of Domination.

I think Ultimate Intrigue specified that's not the case. The check to spot influence is easy, but can only be done when the influence is in effect.

"Act normally" is always in effect.

:P

And I would really question a command of "Do what I say and otherwise act normally".
Plus, as a GM, I would be heavy handed with that. Better if your high charisma dominator never say anything in earshot of the dominated person following that order.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
wraithstrike wrote:
Grindstone wrote:
Thanks for the answers. The PC in question is a Shaman, so would that be WIS vs. the opposing spell-casters applicable attribute? Or using CHA anyway?
It's still cha vs cha. It doesn't default to your main casting stat so if the other caster is cha-based then he has an advantage in most cases.

Him, being an ugly shaman, that stinks. Thanks guys!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Claxon wrote:
_Ozy_ wrote:
Cheap mental protection?
I guess, but since a cracked clear spindle ioun stone in a wayfinder is only 1500gp and gives you the effect of Protection from Evil against mind control it's also cheap and effective.

Only if it works - cracked ioun stones only have a 25% chance of having resonant powers (outside of PFS, where they have none).


_Ozy_ wrote:

Hmm, high-charisma spellcaster Dominates other party members with orders to ignore all other outside orders besides his own, and otherwise act normally.

Cheap mental protection?

Act normally doesn't really work well as a command. It's a task performed to the exclusion of all others to the point where a DC 15 Sense Motive check clues observers in to the spell. In terms of practical effects, that would probably mean failing to respond to anything out of the ordinary.

Suggestion is probably going to work better, since it only forces one action.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Enchantment spell vs. enchantment spell already in effect All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.