Hi all,
I am starting to do research into GMing a scenario sometime in the next month (The Confirmation) with my home group. I've never GMed, well, anything before, so it is a lot to read up on.
One question I had - I know as a GM I earn the 2 PP for the scenario. I also know that you can spend 2 PP to get one item up to 750GP, but only once per scenario. The question is, am I allowed to spend PP during the scenario I GM, or can I only spend when my character is actually present?
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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When you finish the adventure, you'll assign it to one of your characters. Until that time, you haven't earned the 2 Prestige.
Also, you need to have a character participating in the game to spend Prestige during the session. Since you can't do that as a GM, a GM is never allowed to spend PP. (Or gold, for that matter)
To some extent, that's to get you off the hook. In a couple of months, you may be running a Tier 5 - 9 scenario, and a PC might get killed. Can you, as the GM, contribute to raising the character? No.
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Also, you need to have a character participating in the game to spend Prestige during the session. Since you can't do that as a GM, a GM is never allowed to spend PP. (Or gold, for that matter)
To some extent, that's to get you off the hook. In a couple of months, you may be running a Tier 5 - 9 scenario, and a PC might get killed. Can you, as the GM, contribute to raising the character? No.
I don't think he's asking about spending PP on spellcasting services for the PCs, but rather for purchasing items for his GM credit character using PP. For that, you can just mark it on your sheet like you would a purchase you paid money for.
When you finish the adventure, you'll assign it to one of your characters. Until that time, you haven't earned the 2 Prestige.
Also, you need to have a character participating in the game to spend Prestige during the session. Since you can't do that as a GM, a GM is never allowed to spend PP. (Or gold, for that matter)
To some extent, that's to get you off the hook. In a couple of months, you may be running a Tier 5 - 9 scenario, and a PC might get killed. Can you, as the GM, contribute to raising the character? No.
Drat. So if I GM 5 games, and play in the 6th, even though my character will have 10 PP going into the 6th game, I can still only have at most one 750GP item; had I played, I could have 5 750GP items. Just a drawback of GMing?
I don't think he's asking about spending PP on spellcasting services for the PCs, but rather for purchasing items for his GM credit character using PP. For that, you can just mark it on your sheet like you would a purchase you paid money for.
You are right, I am asking about purchasing items with PP. Specifically, my character is a wizard who likes to use wands, so I had intended (before I knew I would be GMing) to have a handful of wands by level 2 or 3 via PP. Now that I am GMing a large number of our group's games, I am wondering if that is still possible.
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You can do it once per Chronicle.That's not my reading of the rules, GM Lamplighter; I don't see any way to use Prestige except during play, and there's no "moment of adventure" between Chronicle sheets for a GM banking XP.
I see no such restriction in the Season 7 Guide. Where are you reading this, Chris?
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Well, the GM is "playing" the game as well, so I don't see why you couldn't spend your once/scenario 2 PP for an item when you take your GM Chronicle.
I agree it isn't clear, but there are other rules which make me lean towards a GM being able to do it, such as "a GM assigns credit the same way as a player, and using the same rules" and "a player can use prestige even when dead, petrified, etc."
Then again, the GM doesn't get downtime, so there are some differences.
Hmm... how has this not come up before in the 8 years of the campaign? (Probably because everyone "knew" they were doing it correctly, whichever way they were doing it...)
Hmm... how has this not come up before in the 8 years of the campaign? (Probably because everyone "knew" they were doing it correctly, whichever way they were doing it...)
Always fun when you can come up with a unique question :)
From a role play perspective, my impression is that for all practical purposes the GM did "play" the scenario. For example, after I GM The Confirmation, the character I apply the sheet to will have his wayfinder received for having been confirmed, and will be considered to have gone through confirmation; it just kinda happens off-screen. By the same logic, there doesn't seem to be any reason I couldn't have also spent those PP off-screen as well.
From a RAW perspective, though, I agree it seems rather foggy. Do we know what the reasoning is behind the GM not getting downtime? I know that is clearly in the rulebook, I'm just curious as to why that decision was made; seems somewhat arbitrary, given that the GM gets every other benefit that having played would have given.
OK, after reading the guild guide some more, here is what seems like a good RAW justification for the ability to spend PP as a GM:
It would appear that, as a GM, you participate in everything that occurs "After the Adventure", with the exception of Downtime, since that is explicitly disallowed. Everything else is record-keeping that happens outside of the in-game-play process, such as gaining experience and prestige points. Step 3 of "After the Adventure" is "Spoils of War and Buying Equipment" on page 22, wherein you can buy new stuff for your character by writing the purchase down on the chronicle sheet with a GM as witness. It would seem then that a GM could legally participate in the purchasing of equipment, whether that purchasing happens from spending gold or PP. Since Step 3 is not explicitly denied to the GM like Downtime is, there would be no RAW reason to deny that step to the GM.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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That's not my reading of the rules, GM Lamplighter; I don't see any way to use Prestige except during play, and there's no "moment of adventure" between Chronicle sheets for a GM banking XP.
I see no such restriction in the Season 7 Guide. Where are you reading this, Chris?
I was mis-remembering something from page 27.
"Characters may not spend Prestige Points during combat. For the sake of simplicity, many GMs might consider limiting characters to spending Prestige Points only once per gaming session."
I was remembering it as a hard-and-fast rule: "PCs can only spend Prestige Points once per gaming session."
Since the GM in question is working with his own character, he could choose not to apply that restriction.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Vinyc, the restriction on buying items with Prestige isn't "once per Chronicle." It's either "once per game session" (which is different when a GM can earn several Chronicles between playing the character) or "make as many purchases as you like". It's the GM's call.
Since the "GM" in this case is the player who's accumulating the Chronicles, rather than the GM of the session when he actually pays Prestige for all of those items, he can decide that he bought them without restriction.
Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Central Region
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Vinyc, the restriction on buying items with Prestige isn't "once per Chronicle." It's either "once per game session" (which is different when a GM can earn several Chronicles between playing the character) or "make as many purchases as you like". It's the GM's call.
Since the "GM" in this case is the player who's accumulating the Chronicles, rather than the GM of the session when he actually pays Prestige for all of those items, he can decide that he bought them without restriction.
The 1 PP and 2 PP purchases they're referring to do have an extra caveat on the table:
"3 Once per session, you can acquire any single item of this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate number of Prestige Points. Items purchased this way are worth 0 gp and cannot be sold.
Since it just says "session," rather than "game session," I don't see anything that would prevent a GM from also using this option.
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I hope you can do this after getting a GM chronicle for your PC. Otherwise, I think almost all of my 23 PC's would fail a character audit. I frequently GM low level stuff and use the chronicles to skip level 1 on my PC's, and I almost always spend my first 2 PA on a wand of some sort (usually CLW).
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I hope you can do this after getting a GM chronicle for your PC. Otherwise, I think almost all of my 23 PC's would fail a character audit. I frequently GM low level stuff and use the chronicles to skip level 1 on my PC's, and I almost always spend my first 2 PA on a wand of some sort (usually CLW).
Oh yeah, I have a UMD magus who started play at level 6, and had 5 wands purchased with PP. No way I was dropping 3750 on that, or waiting the better part of 2 levels to get them all.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Since it just says "session," rather than "game session," I don't see anything that would prevent a GM from also using this option.
See, I've always assumed that "session" and "game session" were the same thing. You're saying they're not?
Given that text, I'd go back to saying that no, you can't buy more than one item per game session.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Following the rules, Steve? At first thought: Providing consistency, showing folks by example that we do think the rules of the campaign are worth following, ...
Do you need more?
Look, I'm on board with the idea that it would sure be more convenient if we could spend PP on a bunch of items, all at once. But that's not the way this campaign works. As per the text that Landon cited, once per session, you can buy an item with Prestige.
If you want to claim that "session" doesn't mean "play session," then argue that. If you want to claim that GMing counts as a play session, then argue that.
But "what purpose does it serve to follow the rules" doesn't go very far.
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The greatest situation and application of the rules would be "You can only spend PP once during this scenario, cause the GM considered it and decided that" and then you have to get your body recovery, raise dead, and two restorations (a week apart).
Oops. Completely legal for the GM to do so though...
On the topic at hand: I feel there is nothing wrong with the GM making a single PP purchase per Chronicle that they GM with the character. Anything else is punishing the GM for working for the community.
Level 2 played character has a wand of Mage Armor, Wand of Cure Light Wounds, Wand of Magic Missile.
Level 2 GM'd character hasn't played and so can't buy those wands yet.
That just seems wrong and unfair.
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People are confusing two issues and talking past each other.
1. "GMs may limit you to spending PP once per scenario." This is if it's taking up too much time, they can make the game move on.
2. "Spending 2PP for 750gp item" can only be done once per session, period.
The first item is irrelevant here, because the second one is the one under discussion, and has a specific, non-discretionary limitation of once per session.
The second item doesn't forbid GMs from doing the same thing as players, though. If you spend 2PP to get a 750gp item when you take your GM Chronicle, I think you're following the rules.
If you wait until you're about to play after GMing 5 games, and *then* want to spend all 5 accumulated "2PP purchases", you're violating the "once per session" rule.
Moral of the story is to do it when you take the Chronicle sheet.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Steve, ask the folks who wrote the rule, and who have kept it, unchanged, from one year to the next.
I guess I am Lawful, to the extent that, when I'm going to GM in this campaign, I'm going to run things the way the Guide asks. I'm not going to look at each sentence in the Guide, decide if I understand its purpose, and if not, decide whether I'm going to follow that.
Level 2 GM'd character hasn't played and so can't buy those wands yet.
That just seems wrong and unfair.
(Well, he could buy one of them at the beginning of the session.)
You could make the same argument about downtimes, especially if the PC in question has invested several resources into getting high Day Job bonuses, or has other downtime opportunities that get passed by with GM Chronicle sheets.
If you think the rule is unfair, argue to change the rule.
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Chris, I disagree with you on what the rule says. It just says "once per session", you can spend prestige to buy an item. It doesn't specify that it has to be a session where you played instead of GMing.
As mentioned above, I've spent the prestige from GM credit chronicles to pick up wands or other items on many of my PC's. Until I saw this thread, it never crossed my mind that anyone might think this was against the rules. And I still disagree with your reason for thinking it is against the rules.
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Chris, I disagree with you on what the rule says. It just says "once per session", you can spend prestige to buy an item. It doesn't specify that it has to be a session where you played instead of GMing.
As mentioned above, I've spent the prestige from GM credit chronicles to pick up wands or other items on many of my PC's. Until I saw this thread, it never crossed my mind that anyone might think this was against the rules. And I still disagree with your reason for thinking it is against the rules.
I am reading in the same way as Fromper, and in the same boat. I do not understand how you are reaching an interpretation that would stop a GM from spending prestige on the chronicle where they GMed.
I do agree that the 2PP and 1PP item purchases would be limited the same as a player.
If you think the rule is unfair, argue to change the rule.
Or just, you know, don't follow such a broken and arguably baseless interpretation, and instead use a more sane & less punitive interpretation that also conveniently may be a more RAI interpretation as well.
(I mean, does anyone seriously expect PFS management to come into this thread and actually tell GMs that they are getting the short end of the stick for running games? Could PFS be more self-defeating at that point?)
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There is no doubt in my mind that a GM chronicle sheet enables a 2pp item purchase.
I can see a narrow reading for an argument against it, but here's some logic on why it is a legal option.
A GM must be present in order for you to purchase items. This can be done before, during or after the adventure. All transactions must be recorded on the scenario’s Chronicle sheet and reflected on your character’s Inventory Tracking Sheet.
Free purchase up to 750 gp - 2 PP
Once per session, you can acquire any single item of this cost or less from your faction by spending the appropriate number of Prestige Points. Items purchased this way are worth 0 gp and cannot be sold.
Note that twice this is specifically called a purchase.
So the 2pp purchase can only be done once per session, but can be done before, during, or after the adventure.
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Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Central Region
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Following the rules, Steve? At first thought: Providing consistency, showing folks by example that we do think the rules of the campaign are worth following, ...
Do you need more?
Look, I'm on board with the idea that it would sure be more convenient if we could spend PP on a bunch of items, all at once. But that's not the way this campaign works. As per the text that Landon cited, once per session, you can buy an item with Prestige.
If you want to claim that "session" doesn't mean "play session," then argue that. If you want to claim that GMing counts as a play session, then argue that.
But "what purpose does it serve to follow the rules" doesn't go very far.
I think the difference between "session" and "play session" only matters under the interpretation that a GM doesn't count as having a "play session". If that interpretation is correct, then the rule I quoted specifically only saying "session" would imply (to me, at least) that it includes ALL participants in the session, not just the players. This would let GMs make a single purchase per scenario.
If "play session" instead refers to everyone playing at the table, including the GM, as I and some others appear to believe, then you are correct in that "session" and "play session" seem interchangeable. This would also let GMs make a single purchase per scenario.