Get into online gaming. Post by Posts are fun. Roll20 is easy to use.
Play a game with less established lore or in an area mostly homebrewed.
What brings up all the Lore talking and junk? Is it a PC with Kn.History/Nobility/Local/Geography and so isn't metagame knowledge? Is what their saying really relevant to the story?
I would start saying "Okay great but how is that important right now?" ALL the time.
You can be a cool face without having to lie all the time. Usually when people are annoyed when a member of their party is lying is when there isn't really a need for it or it puts them in unnecessary risk.
The final option is...
Talk to the table more. You say there is no solution but most of the time thats just a cop out for lack of effort or eloquence. Needing to know the entire noble bloodline of a country seems a bit of an exaggeration. Is the party studying in game? Because honestly that sounds like a waste of time since it's a function of a skill.
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Does the guy who knows all the Pathfinder story ever play a high Charisma Character? Because the fun part about Pathfinder is that the role play and the roll play work together. You know how in combat it doesn't matter how cool you describe things or how perfect your strategy is or if you have a weapon destined to slay the dragon, if you roll a bunch of ones you just sort of fail? And do you know how no matter how cool you make the Levitate Spell sound you can't make it work like Fly?
Skills work the same. It doesn't matter what the Player knows about Golarion- if he can't make the Knowledge check, his Character doesn't know. It doesn't matter how compelling a Player's argument is, how well nuanced, or if it solves all the problems for everyone- if they get a crap roll with 8 Charisma and no ranks in Diplomacy, it doesn't work.
Basically, if the GM requires that you back up that 38 Bluff with an actual, plausible lie in-Character? Good. But if the DC was 30 and you make it, you make the Bluff. Somebody with a really good story can't compensate for missing the DC by twenty. That isn't how the game works.
So do this. Walk up to the NPC and crush them with your crazy CHA magic buffed skilled out 50 Diplomacy. In conjunction, maybe ask Lore Guy out of Character, what's the best thing to say in character, since clearly you just said it.
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Huh. My suggestion is to have a chat with your GM, and inquire as to how far off the published material they are willing to go, and whether they're comfortable with swapping NPC roles around a little. I suggest this, as generally my experience (both as GM and player) is that the most fun is generally had by the NPCs that draw the most attention being turned into plot relevant NPCs.
Indeed, to paraphrase Jason Bulmahn's advice on GMing from around '09 when he over in these parts (it was a while ago), "Whichever NPC draws the PCs attention the most is the most important NPC. Maybe you intended the butcher to be the villain of your story, but the players blew him off to go and talk to the candlemaker more... well, make the candlemaker the villain. The most important thing is to get the players interested - and you can't always predict what about an NPC will do that, so when you strike gold, use it."
In other words, I find it strange that your GM would introduce NPCs, roleplay them convincingly and in a fashion that garners your attention, and then not find a use for them in the story. To me, that just comes across as wasted potential. Alternatively, if they don't want to diverge too much from the published material, I'd suggest that when your character is out and about, they try to have plot relevant NPCs be the ones you run into, rather than throwaway NPCs.
... That said, as both a player and GM I dislike the concept of "The Party Face" and prefer that all PCs roleplay and interact with people like sapient beings, rather than standing mutely (or worse, feeding suggestions to the "face") and getting "The Face Guy" to make all the rolls. But that's just my opinion, which I appreciate isn't exactly the majority :)
I hate to say it, but find a new role, or just don't play. This doesn't sound like a fun group, but sometimes we have to decide what is more important to us; playing the character we want to play, or playing at all. If you get no fun out of being the beatstick, or don't want to step on toes, that's fine, but there are other niches between these two archetypes. The way you lament about this group though...I don't see why there's any point continuing. Perhaps start a game of your own without the bookworm?
As for NPC's most GM's play up important NPC's or give them a name. The random shopkeeper is not likely to be important so you are likely wasting your time talking to him unless you just like to RP.
As for knowledge of the setting you might want to talk to the GM to find out what he considers to be common knowledge and what requires a knowledge roll. Just because your fellow player has a lot of knowledge about the world, that does not mean his character always should. From that point you can decide which knowledges you need to invest in to really shine of if you can basically ignore knowledge skills.
I would also refuse to be the other players mouthpeice. At best I would say what I wanted to say then relay the other player's comment after that.
No gaming is better than bad gaming. I'm sure you can find other outlets.
It's a sad fact of playing a face character that its one of the most difficult parts to play as far as requirements go.
Combat characters just need to be well built, casters just need the right spells, skill monkeys need to distribute points well.
Faces need the GM to be along with them for the ride at all times as well as the other PCs, because you're dealing in soft power rather than hard mechanics.
Talk to your GM about how you feel, just the two of you and explain that you enjoy playing the face and want to help him include more roleplaying elements if he's cool with it, you're not being passive aggressive or trying to cause trouble, but you want to make sure you're on the same page, so on so forth.
Push comes to shove? Finding text games is always an alternate option.
Some players are way too anxious to use every single capability their character has. For example, if you are talking to an NPC for info, they could see that as an opportunity to roll a knowledge check instead. You want the opportunity to speak to the NPC, hopefully gaining some info pertaining to your quest. That player sees an opportunity and throws the die. It drives me crazy. One I have encountered is when I have a bunch of cure spells left, but a player is just dying to role a UMD check to gain 1d8+1 hit points instead. I could go on. Anyhow, I hope that you find a group that enjoys some of your favorite facets of gaming.
Leave the group, go out and find a new one. If you're not happy playing that is really the only option. People are trying to give you advice and you gave a list of excuses why you have to stay in that game. There Meetup, where you can find a live gaming group. Society play, not my cup of tea. Roll20, which is a bit more fun for the "face guy" in that you can probably use voice through some sort of communication. Lastly there PbP which I find less than desirable for someone who craves the interaction.
There are a lot of poeple on here who say their group no longer supports the "fun" of their hobby but won't leave. Don't be a battered play mate, but it will take work of some sort to find what you're looking for. It would be nice if your friends would become the group you want to play with, but I've learned wishing for it won't make it so.
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I would parrot Dudemeister and say consider running a game yourself.
Pick up a low level adventure module and give it a spin.
Maybe not with the group you are in now but post on reddit or at your local gaming store to pick up some more folks.
When I primarily played I had similar problems and getting behind the helm of the game was the best thing that could have happened.
You should ask you GM to implement influence from the Ultimate intrigue book. Then the party gets involved with the NPC interaction. You're face skills will be awesome and the knowledgeable character just as awesome. You'll both work together that way.
That's one of things I really liked about Ultimate Intrigue. It allow the party to be a part of social interactions. It's no longer just one die roll for the party face but the party face gets to really shine in spots.
It's bit of work for the GM at first as you figure it out but it works great with Adventure paths. You have the NPC detailed out with skills and stats in most cases. So it's trivial to select skills they can be influenced with.
I'm trying now to figure a way to stream line the process as GM for prep time and for times when players just take the game a direction I didn't expect.
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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I know you said you tried talking to the group already, but it might be time for a second round. Bonus, I'll actually recommend what points you can bring up!
So, first: you're obviously struggling to have any fun with this group, and you're willing to try to make it better. They need to meet you half way on this too. Role-playing games are fundamentally a social activity, so if they refuse to let you participate and don't care about your having fun, that's a problem. But you knew this. I would talk to the GM, and perhaps the lore focused player since it seems like they have a lot of pull with the GM, and specifically tell them how you're not having fun and nut feeling respected. It seems to me that they are treating you very poorly as a player and as a friend, and if that seems accurate then I urge you to say so. This can be a tough conversation, and there's a lot of pressure to say what you mean honestly and accurately, so writing an email or letter to explain this is perfectly acceptable and maybe preferable.
Second: assuming your group is willing to work with you and consider your needs, maybe you can work out some compromises. You like being the face, but you keep dying in dungeon crawls. Maybe consider branching out into characters that can fight and face? Talk with your GM about rebuilding to meet the style of the campaign, and maybe try diversifying your Kitsune with some more defensive and combat spells. Or picking a more martial character with a charisma focus like a battle oracle.
Ultimately, it's up to you. But it sounds like this group 1) has some conflicting play styles with you, and 2) more importantly it sounds like they don't respect you. They need to correct that second one, or they may not be worth playing with.
It seems to me you know what is wrong, and you have done everything everyone else could try to suggest to fix the problem. Some problems among people are actually not fixable. This group dynamic seems like its shutting you out. Its not the game, you cant fix it with the game, its the people.
Even if you learned all the lore in golarion, that isnt going to solve the problem. The GM wants the game on rails, and the lore guy wants to do all the talking, and the gm is enabling him for whatever reason.
This isnt a game problem, this is a people problem. And if you honestly think you have done everything you can to talk to them about it, and you give up on that, you really should stop playing. Everyone's time is precious, you shouldn't engage in a leisure activity that upsets you and that you dont find enjoyable. There are better things to do with your friends then play a bad pathfinder game.
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Yeah, if you have an adversarial relationship with both the GM and another player, its time to go. Similarly, if the GM is only running APs as written and is completely unwilling to do anything to make it more fun, bail.
But before you go, there is something you ought to know- Pathfinder Characters are killing machines. I mean, look at literally every Class. They are all, all of them, combat capable. They are not all Spellcasters, and they are not all capable of being effective with Skills. But they can all roll d20s followed by other dice, add numbers, and kill monsters. So that isn't a role you can opt out of.
I understand you much prefer the social interaction to the dungeon crawling. I get that, I mean, I do too, even when I am running games. But its not ok, even at level 1, to just opt out, make a Character who can't help in a fight, and then get mad at the GM when the session is a dungeon crawl. You have to play the game.
If I had a player who hated combat, hated dungeons and was only interested in exploration/social interaction, I would not tell them which sessions to skip. I would tell them to skip all the sessions. Same for a guy who makes AM BARBARIAN. Look, I know your only social Skill is Intimidate. But if your character has no interest in any social interaction, no concern for the plot, and falls asleep every time a riddle or puzzle comes up, man, you could have made a better Character/been a better Player.
I'm not saying that hyper fixated players are bad people. Just that if you only enjoy 1/3 of what a game offers, please go find a game that focuses on that and enjoy 100% of it.
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We're playing tomorrow. I'm going to run my character one more time and see what happens. If it is still non stop parroting of stuff in other books about other cities, countries, just knowing every creature off a basic description and then describing it entirely, dominating the conversation with all these factoids and every NPC understanding it all as if everything is common knowledge (Seriously, how many people right now can just name four members of the current city council from two towns over? Cause it seems like that is every npc that isn't just nameless unwashed masses.) and so on, I have to either make a new character that is not a talker, healer, buffer, sneak, or damage output guy somehow or just quit playing games face to face with people as this is really the only available group, and they are my friends and I don't want to keep arguing with them.
They're good people. I just, I don't know what to do anymore. I know you folks are giving solutions that might help but from what I know about my group, it has to be me that changes. Asking them to change is going to come off like an insult. So it is me that needs the fix, really, so I can keep playing.
The thing of it is, if you don't enjoy other roles, you just don't. Everyone could give you builds or ways to go about things, sure, but in the end, we can't control or magically make you enjoy things that you don't find enjoyable. It's not unreasonable liking rp over combat and lore, nor is it unreasonable to expect having the chance to rp in a tabletop rpg. We can't really change you, is what I'm saying.
That said, perhaps we can show things in a different light in terms of alternative stuff to play. In order for that to occur though, could you give us some detailed reasons why you don't have fun playing any of the types you listed?
I will also note that while yes, diplomacy / bluff based face builds offer a chance to get a fair amount of usefulness out of rp, and potentially offer more chances to rp, it's not the only way to get your rp fix. How they carry themselves, how they fight, interrogate, odd quirks, even why they use the weapons or magic they use is all a part of rping. If rping is truly what you enjoy, then there's a chance that you could find your role there. Make your pc ooze character and personality. Maybe you could have fun with that.
I would suggest if you go this route, that you switch to a different character. Like others, it's your character, not their cohort or slave. They say it, so they roll it. Foot down. Period.
Jeremias, if I do that they get annoyed and keep trying to justify it. Apparantly doing that is disruptive. Like any time I act logically or with any self preservation instinct (When I have barely any HP and 13 AC), I get berated by the GM in a passive aggressive manner for getting out of there when the entire angry mob is focused on me rather than staying and trying to resolve it.
GM even once had everyone roll aid another and let them use their total rolls instead of the +2 cause I got out of there when the angry mob was calling for my blood.
What *is* it about that group that you like? It could be me, but it sounds like the group is not good for you, and you don't seem to enjoy the company or the playstyle. It may just be time for you to find a different group.