Hello!
So the group I play with usually plays early-level games - the furthest we've made it in a campaign is level 7, and we only did that once.
Recently, we've been wanting to do some higher-level play, so we're running some one-shots with rotating GMs to allow everyone a chance to participate.
The problem is, we have no idea what 12th level characters/monsters/encounters look like.
My question is, what should I look for in making a 10th-15th level martial character? AC, saves, equipment, attack/damage bonuses, etc..
Specifically, I'm making a 12th level shield champion brawler, focussing on using a shield as opposed to fists.
Asking what level things 'should' be at is tricky because the answers will be largely subjective and based on the answerers personal experience (somebody used to playing with powergamers is going to have a very different answer than someone in a group that's way more concerned about RP, for example).
Looking at creatures of CR=your level is good advice. For a melee character the things you really want to be looking at are: will my first attack or two hit these reliably; should it's later attacks have a decent chance of missing me; do I have enough hp to last 2-3 rounds of fighting toe-to-toe with this; and, do I have some way to handle its flight/DR/invisibilty/etc. For that last one, sometimes the answer is trusting your caster allies to buff you but you, hopefully, shouldn't need to count on that to get through every single fight.
Other than that, you can compare yourself to the other PCs in your party too. Are you going to feel/be completely useless in some common situations? Are you going to make someone else seem completely useless? If the answer to either of those questions is yes you may want to think about one or both of you making some tweaks.
My loot is currently composed of:
Belt of Hurling, greater (42k), +5 Adamantine Shield (no brawling enhance because that has strange interactions when I use my unarmed strike damage with my shield) (28k), +3 Mithril Chain Shirt (10k), an Ioun Stone (for +1 ATK) (5k), +4 Cloak of Resistance (16k), 3 wands (CLW, Aspect of the Falcon, Bless for ATK bonuses) (2.1k).
I have about 4kgp remaining, and nobody else in the party has done equipment yet, so I can probably convince them to buy me some wands (I can use them fairly consistently with my ranks in it). I'll probably look into a way to get flight, with my remaining GP, and a few Quick Runner's Shirts.
Thoughts?
|
I'd look at this, which is a good general guide to viability.
According to that, you're gonna need a minimum of 26 AC and +10 in all Saves, but are more likely to want AC 30+ and +14 in at least some Saves. You also need at least +20 to hit and to do an average of 40 damage a round, but as long as you have Power Attack you're pretty much definitionally there, given that shield and Shield Mastery.
Now, since you just gave gear, not the build, I'm not sure exactly how close to those benchmarks you are, though I'm betting Iron Will would be a solid call (you technically don't need it if you have Wis 14 or something else increasing Will Save...but it's still a good idea).
That said, you're missing some of the fundamental AC enhancers (the awesome shield makes this less of an issue, but it's still a bit silly not to have them). You can drop your Chain Shirt to +2 and get a Jingasa of the Fortunate soldier, keeping your AC the same and allowing you to negate one crit a day. You can then use the remaining 4k for a Ring of Protection +1 and an Amulet of Natural Armor +1, for another +2 AC super cheap. I'd do that (unless you want an Amulet of Mighty Fists, see below).
Also...why in the world do you have a Greater Belt of Hurling? It's absurdly expensive and it's improvements over the Lesser Belt are entirely redundant with your Class Abilities. A Lesser Belt of Mighty Hurling with it's Str bonus raised to +4 would cost 28k, and thus save you 14k. I mean, I guess if your GM doesn't let you do that there's some logic...but even then, I'd just drop to the Lesser Belt. 28k is way too much to pay for +2 Str.
With the money saved you can increase your defenses, give yourself a mobility option or two, or do all kinds of other neat things. One option would be to get Brawling on your Chain Shirt and grab a +1 Amulet of Mighty Fists instead of an Amulet of Natural Armor. That gives you decent unarmed combat stuff to use if you wind up shieldless at some point, and is pretty cheap all things considered.
What Ioun Stone are you using for +1 to attack? A Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone is 4k gp, and gives a +1 competence bonus to attack (so skip it if you have a bard in the party). You can get another for +1 competence bonus to saves, which saves you 3k if you downgrade that cloak to a +3.
At this level, Bless isn't worth the action to cast it. Also, I'm not seeing the value of Aspect of the Falcon. I'd dump both of those wands. Maybe pick up Longstrider instead, and/or Heightened Awareness
Since you're a ranged attacker, a potion or two of Fly is probably all you need in that department.
What about Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural armor. Those are cheap AC boosts at this level. Also, either Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier or Dusty Rose Prism Ioun Stone should come before the +3 on your armor, since they cost the same and add to Touch AC as well.
So to sum up:
Downgrade +3 armor to +2 (+5k)
Downgrade +4 cloak to +3 (+7k)
Lose wands of Bless and AotF (+1.5k)
Fix price on ioun stone (+1k)
Get wands of Longstrider and Heightened Awareness (-1.5k)
Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone (-4k)
Ring of Protection +1 (-2k)
Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (-2k)
Jingasa of the Fortunate Soldier (-5k)
2x Potion of Fly (-1.5k)
That leaves 2.5k gp for a slush fund, and some miscellaneous scrolls for your UMD.
I am a fan of multiple smaller items. Drop your armor to +1, saves 8k. Buy ring of deflection +1, amulet of natural armor +1, (2k each), take 1k of your leftovers and get jingasha of the fortunate soldier (5k). One better ac than before, several easily upgraded items, and ignore one crit or sneak attack per day.
What are the rules involved with upgrading a Lesser Belt of Hurling to +4, and calculating the costs involved?
I like the idea of dropping my armor down to +2 - that opens up a lot of money for smaller items.
The wand of Bless and Aspect of the Falcon are intended for use before combat (cast them before charging into a room where I expect problems), so the action economy shouldn't be a problem. However, AotF gives a competence bonus to ATK, so it doesn't stack with the Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone - I'll get rid of that wand.
Turns out that Ioun stone I was using for a bonus to attack was the Dusty Rose Prism Ioun stone - somewhere along the line the +1 AC turned into a +1 ATK. I will fix that, and probably purchase the Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone as well.
My saves are F13/R14/W9, so I would rather not drop the Cloak of Resistance down to +3.
I also recognize the wisdom of knowing my character abilities by heart.
|
|
What are the rules involved with upgrading a Lesser Belt of Hurling to +4, and calculating the costs involved?
The general rules on magic item creation for items with multiple effects are that the most expensive cost's normally, and the less expensive costs 1.5 times as much. Given the price of 14k, that has to be 6k for the +2 Str (1.5 times normal), and 8k for the other effect. Upgrading it to +4 switches which is higher around, making it 16k for +4 Str, and then 12k for the other effect (1.5 x 8k).
So...28k.
I like the idea of dropping my armor down to +2 - that opens up a lot of money for smaller items.
It helps, yeah.
The wand of Bless and Aspect of the Falcon are intended for use before combat (cast them before charging into a room where I expect problems), so the action economy shouldn't be a problem. However, AotF gives a competence bonus to ATK, so it doesn't stack with the Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone - I'll get rid of that wand.
Seems like a good call.
Turns out that Ioun stone I was using for a bonus to attack was the Dusty Rose Prism Ioun stone - somewhere along the line the +1 AC turned into a +1 ATK. I will fix that, and probably purchase the Cracked Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone as well.
That makes sense.
My saves are F13/R14/W9, so I would rather not drop the Cloak of Resistance down to +3.
Then you shouldn't. And, as noted, I'd grab Iron Will if I were you.
I also recognize the wisdom of knowing my character abilities by heart.
Very valid.
For your saves, prioritize Will > Fort > Refl -- failed Reflex saves damage you. Failed Fortitude saves kill you (at this level). Failed Will saves kill at least one member of your party (either because you're made to kill them, or because you run away and enemies concentrate on other foes). Iron Will and Improved Iron Will (to reroll those nat-1s) will be very helpful!
A lot of people look at high-level play as "wow, I can do oodles of <whatever>." Which is not untrue -- but you're not going to survive high-level play if you're a one-trick pony. Sooner or later you'll run into something that neutralizes your trick. You have to build survivability into your character -- and survivability does not just mean "my theorycrafting says I should kill all enemies in 2 rounds before they can average-damage me to death."
Enemies crit, usually regularly and always at the worst possible moment. You can miss (especially with invisible/incorporeal/blinking/ethereal foes). Sometimes the terrain is heavily to enemy advantage. Sometimes the threat is environmental. Sometimes foes have nasty debuffing/damaging/fatal auras (get close and die!).
Be able to fly. Be able to deal with teleporting foes, invisible foes, flying foes, and incorporeal spring attacking foes jumping out of the walls -- and that's only the beginning of things. You are famous. People will be casting legend lore on you, know your common tricks and abilities, and plan to work around them. I know the game rewards specialization, but you need enough flexibility to not be useless in common situations (what if your archer is grappled? what if your charger has no clear lanes? what if your enchanter faces someone immune to mind-affecting magic?) Try and have some miss-chance generators as well as AC protecting you.
Know your GM and what he prefers to throw at you. Some things will be more common than others. It's legitimate to take that into account (your character worked his way up through the world and knows how things work, after all.)
Look at same-CR foes, but realize that they're evened up against _non_-optimized basic characters. A 10% edge (minimum for a well-built character) at first level means very little; a 10% edge accumulated over 10-15 levels is A LOT, so a good GM will often be throwing advanced monsters, or multiple monsters, or monsters 2-3 CR above your level, at you, with every expectation you can take them easily. Cumulative problems may become worrisome (yes, you can heal hit points between fights, but can you recover from poisons? curses? ability damage? having your weapon sundered? using up all your once/day or X/day abilities?) Someone in your party should have a wand of lesser restoration, and perhaps of delay poison or neutralize poison as well. Scrolls of stone to flesh, remove curse, and other status-removal effects should be around somewhere.
|
Some Advice:
1: Gold Efficiency. As someone Mentioned look to save money in places. A +3 armor is 9k. A +2 Armor and a Jingasa of the Fortunate soldier is 9k. Both can provide the +3 AC your looking for but Option 2 comes with a 1/day negation of a critical or sneak attack. (also if you have Fate's Favored Trait you get an extra +1 AC as well). But Option 2 is the superior way to go because it gives you the exact same AC and an extra option.
2: Initiative is important. For your Battlefield controller going first can and will make the difference in the fight. As High end encounters are typically deemed "Rocket Tag". Taking the Enemies Gas out of their rocket before the rocket can launch is a way to keep an entire group alive.
3: Saves are Important. You are at a Level where it can mean Save or Die. Shore up your weakest save between Fort and Will saves. A good Strategy I do is get a Cloak of Resistance +2, Luck stone (with Fate's Favored), and Heroism (or Greater). That right there is +6 to saves, +4 to skills, and +2 to Ability Checks. It will cost much less than a +5 cloak of resistance.
4: Layered Defenses. AC is important...to a Point. Typically the thing about AC is used heavily in the early levels (Pre 7) to negate damage. Come 7+ the Enemy WILL hit you even with a massive AC. The AC serves as a way to negate Iterative attacks. This is where Layered defenses come into play. Having a Good AC, Miss chance, DR, Temporary Health, Resist Energy, Save boosts, ect ect. is more important than a 50 AC.