Mounted Barbarian / Hunter / Rogue Build


Advice


I thought of this build today based on another thread i read. It's got potential, and one big weakness that i wonder if you can help with.

2 levels barbarian\3 levels hunter\ rest half orc rogue (skulking slayer)

Point of build: Make the DM cry :P or A potent self buffer who also buffs his mount and then flanks with his mount so gets "free" sneak attacks on anyone he hits.

Barbarian Level 1: Rage +4 str and con. take feat Combat Expertise (needed for another feat later (Pack flanking))

Barbarian Level 2: Rage power: Ferocious Beast: When you rage, your companion pet does too

Hunter level 1 (3 overall): Give you and your companion an animal Focus. One of these is Bull , which gives +2 Str. Take Pack flanking feat so i now flank with my mount while riding my mount

Hunter 2 (4 overall) Outflank +4 to hit when flanking (solves BAB issues of rogue)

Hunter level 3 (5 overall): You get a free teamwork feat which automatically works on you and your companion. Take Amplified rage feat as below:

Prerequisites: Half-orc or orc, rage class feature.
Benefit: Whenever you are raging and adjacent to a raging ally who also has this feat or flanking the same opponent as a raging ally with this feat, your morale bonuses to Strength and Constitution increase by +4. This feat does not stack with itself (you only gain this bonus from one qualifying ally, regardless of how many are adjacent to you). so +10 str +8 con at this point when raging.

Feat at level 5: Take Boon companion. Companion now able to get to level 7 equivalent mount.

Rest of layers: this Half Orc rogue racial

Skulking Slayer (Rogue)

Has some good stuff, not losing much i care about, and adds this at level 3 rogue, 8 overall:

Bold Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, when a skulking slayer charges and makes a sneak attack with a two-handed weapon, she rolls d8s instead of d6s for her sneak attack damage. This ability replaces trap sense +1 and +4.

Overall quite potent I think, able to sink all into strength and wield either a reach or not two hander. However, the mount will stop advancing past level 7, so long term that's the biggest drawback of this. But those delicious sneak attack dice on top of my very impressive strength seems to be worth it.

Any way to make this better/fix the mount problem?


I mean, you could, but honestly if you just want to run around using a single hit to kill dudes you just go with Cavalier.

Grand Lodge

Secret Wizard wrote:
I mean, you could, but honestly if you just want to run around using a single hit to kill dudes you just go with Cavalier.

Cavalier with a lance 1 shots everything it hits on a charge.

I personally Played a Halfling Mounted Beastmaster Ranger/Fighter. I chose a Giant Gecko to ride and lanced from Ceilings and walls. More lanes of Opportunity means more charges. I 1 shotted everything from Levels 1-7 (even bosses) after 7 the Bosses started surviving with like 5 HP. DMs did cry...so did other players...was a good time for a while. I will admit I was not Optimized for Damage I took the hit on damage for Skills and Utility of spell casting from the Ranger. A cavalier's damage would have been much higher but in PFS Cav's don't get access to the Gecko. They have some nice choices mind you but I specifically wanted a dungeon friendly Mount. That was the key to my build if anything.

I think your wasting your time with rogue...Barb/Hunter is good enough Barb 2/Hunter 9...At 8th level of hunter your animal focus gets a nice big boost. But I would just do mounted combat the typical way as it is really effective as it is.


I've done mounted combat as a cavalier, was just looking at doing a different ish twist on it.

Grand Lodge

Timdog wrote:
I've done mounted combat as a cavalier, was just looking at doing a different ish twist on it.

Ever try a Over run/trampling Build?


Also, I like the Spring Attack Qadiran Horselord build with a scimitar! It deals much more damage than a lance build, has different attack patterns and feels cool.


Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Timdog wrote:
I've done mounted combat as a cavalier, was just looking at doing a different ish twist on it.
Ever try a Over run/trampling Build?

Actually, yes, im a half orc mounted on a elephant who does indeed like to overrun and trample on the way to my actual target :)


Yeah, I'm not seeing how Skulking Slayer is desirable compared to more Hunter, Barbarian, or even Cavalier levels.

I would recommend Hunter because you're fighting in tandem with an animal companion. That's sort of the whole point of the Hunter class. It fixes the mount problem and is clearly better overall.

Grand Lodge

Secret Wizard wrote:
Also, I like the Spring Attack Qadiran Horselord build with a scimitar! It deals much more damage than a lance build, has different attack patterns and feels cool.

Is there a way I can see this build? I'm always interested in Mounted builds.


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Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Also, I like the Spring Attack Qadiran Horselord build with a scimitar! It deals much more damage than a lance build, has different attack patterns and feels cool.
Is there a way I can see this build? I'm always interested in Mounted builds.

I made one that takes a detour on Monstrous Mount for a Worg mount for the Character Select section of the Cavalier.

Check it out as the Dervish. If you are cool with Horses you can save two feats, one for Monstrous Mount and another for Undersized Mount or Skill Focus (Ride).

Grand Lodge

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Secret Wizard wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Also, I like the Spring Attack Qadiran Horselord build with a scimitar! It deals much more damage than a lance build, has different attack patterns and feels cool.
Is there a way I can see this build? I'm always interested in Mounted builds.

I made one that takes a detour on Monstrous Mount for a Worg mount for the Character Select section of the Cavalier.

Check it out as the Dervish. If you are cool with Horses you can save two feats, one for Monstrous Mount and another for Undersized Mount or Skill Focus (Ride).

I do like the concept. I Might play with it and perhaps play something very similar. I was actually looking at doing a fun cavalier build. I might try a different mount than a Worg tho. Griffon looks like a nice little fluff mount.


Yep, the point of that build was to address the space concerns of a Large Mount and Charging, so it went with Medium and Spring Attacking.


See that's why I want the rogue levels -/I don't depend on charge

Grand Lodge

Timdog wrote:
See that's why I want the rogue levels -/I don't depend on charge

Then just depend on str+PA+2 handed weapon. Sneak attack can also be very unreliable and rogue is a very poor class indeed.


But with mount flanking, doest that solve most of the unreliability?

Grand Lodge

Timdog wrote:
But with mount flanking, doest that solve most of the unreliability?

Till you meet something immune to SA.

Also what mount you using and what weapon?


Honestly haven't decided. It'll be a two handed something, with power attack coming onboard at level 7. Mount will be pretty generic unless i stall power attack till 9 and pick up the orc "beast mount" feat at 7...

Also possible that i skip the mount part and just go with the companion part. Being mounted isn't essential for anything, may work better to just skip the mounted idea and just go with a companion. He'll still be pretty squishy after level 7 and he stops leveling though....

and even against things with immune to SA, i am still +10 str from raging + companion, +4 to hit from outflanking, plus power attack and whatever weapon enchants i have by that point... so i'm not hurting terribly.

So overwhelmingly though the feedback seems to be that an extra 1d6 SA damage every two levels (plus all the other "normal" rogue stuff) is offset by the specials that either barbarians or hunters get.

Grand Lodge

Have you played a straight hunter? It's a surprisingly powerful class.


Your character doesn't have enough rage rounds to dedicate to the build you set out. Ferocious mount requires 2 rounds of rage per round. A 2nd level barbarian will have 6+con rounds of rage per day.

So you can do amplified rage maybe 4 rounds per day. Kind of a big investment for 4 rounds per day. You could change out your companion for a badger to stretch your rounds. Otherwise, extra rage is almost required.


Ack, nicholas, totally good call. Hence why we post for other brains to look at lol.

Yeah, that's a killer.

Liberty's Edge

Have you seen the sense vitals spell? It's basically 1d6 sneak attack every 3 levels, max 5d6. Hunters get it at level 4. Going Barbarian 2/Hunter 3/Rogue x will only get you a better sneak attack after level 14,shortly before the spell caps out.


I have not. That's an evil spell! thanks


if going high levels, it open great deal of options...
level 9 cavalier than thug \ scout rogue, auto sneaks and fear every spring attack .

medium (human) on a worg , sound amazing! going large griffon is just as yummie - flight spring attack is amazing.

BTW - order of the sword is indeed the biggest DPR order BUT, what of order of the Beast? level 8 your horse is turned into a roc or dire bat or a climbing lizard or a shark...
level 15 you got a dragon....
yes, losing 20 danage each srping attack is hurtful, but... getting a super mount is also handy...

also, dont forget Mighty charge - every spring attack will ALSO do trip etc, might as well grab some boosting feats like greater bull rush.

i DO got a Q:
will spirited charge work on your scimitar, while srping attacking ?
it seem so, as, as the archtype offer treating a 1 handed blade like a lance..


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Secret Wizard wrote:
Fruian Thistlefoot wrote:
Secret Wizard wrote:
Also, I like the Spring Attack Qadiran Horselord build with a scimitar! It deals much more damage than a lance build, has different attack patterns and feels cool.
Is there a way I can see this build? I'm always interested in Mounted builds.

I made one that takes a detour on Monstrous Mount for a Worg mount for the Character Select section of the Cavalier.

Check it out as the Dervish. If you are cool with Horses you can save two feats, one for Monstrous Mount and another for Undersized Mount or Skill Focus (Ride).

some QA:

you took a feat at level 6, Dervish build - the archtype trade that feat.
mount took Charge Through, he cant... no imp overrun..
if you plan on taking skill focus & human, take the class alternatives.
you trade the level 1 feat for skill foucs, but also get a free skill focus at level 8 and 16. it's a better trade.


Fixed!

I avoided using alternate racials but that's totally a legitimate choice.


Any one know ?
will spirited charge work on your scimitar, while spring attacking ?
it seem so, as, as the archetype allow you to treat a 1 handed blade like a lance..

Grand Lodge

666bender wrote:

Any one know ?

will spirited charge work on your scimitar, while spring attacking ?
it seem so, as, as the archetype allow you to treat a 1 handed blade like a lance..

Well Spirited Charge is a Charge action.

Charge wrote:
Charging is a special full-round action that allows you to move up to twice your speed and attack during the action. Charging, however, carries tight restrictions on how you can move.

Spring attack is a special full round action

Spring Attack wrote:
As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn.
FAQ on Spring attack wrote:
Spring Attack is a special kind of full-round action that includes the ability to make one melee attack, not one attack action. Charging uses similar language

I would guess no since a charge is a special kind of action and spring attack is a different action choice.

But The scimitar would be treated like a lance and net you X3 damage on a charge. (Along with its High critical rate....that is the main benefit)

The build is still decent allowing you to spring attack a Dazing Assault on a target and setting up a charge lane for Spirited Charge round 2 with the huge Spring Movements a mount brings. It also can split a group if you can goad something to break off from it's group to come after you just to be duped by superior movements.

Its a charge build with options and I like it.


It works. The archetype specifically says you can deal damage with scimitars while trading spring attack as though you were charging.


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Sand Storm (Ex)
At 6th level, a Qadiran horselord gains the benefits of the Mobility feat so long as she is mounted. Additionally, the horselord deals double damage while using a one-handed slashing weapon from the back of a charging mount, as though using a lance. This replaces the bonus feat gained at 6th level.

As One (Ex)
At 9th level, a Qadiran horselord gains the benefits of the Spring Attack feat so long as she remains mounted. The horselord uses her mount's movement for this action and neither the horselord nor her mount provoke attacks of opportunity from the target. When making a single attack with a one-handed slashing weapon while using the Spring Attack feat, the Qadiran horselord treats her mount as charging. This ability can be used to qualify for other feats that treat Spring Attack as a prerequisite; however, the cavalier can benefit from those feats only while mounted. This ability replaces greater tactician.

Grand Lodge

Secret Wizard wrote:
It works. The archetype specifically says you can deal damage with scimitars while trading spring attack as though you were charging.
As One wrote:
When making a single attack with a one-handed slashing weapon while using the Spring Attack feat, the horselord treats her mount as charging.

Ahh you are correct...I overlooked that.

In this specific case Yes it works all because of that Sentence under Horselord's As one ability.

Edit: you ninjaed me by seconds...

But yes I see it now...Normally would be a No but the ability makes the allowance.


wow!
1) i like human with undersized mount > small race, especially because of the level 11 cavalier's, mighty charge - that add the attack a free maneuver at it's end OR , if halfling, go a Dex, Rapier / scimitar wielder.

2) i REALLY like the archetype - i was looking for a viable spring attack build for a long while.

3) if small race - after level 9 i would grab 4 levels of thug&scout rogue with boon companion . adding 2d6, fear and sicken to each spring attack or charge.
if medium ? i would consider dipping 4 into hunter for team feats, and spells.


Furian - order of the sword VS order of the Beast ?

sword ofc, boost the damage the most.
str of the mount to damage , on spring attacks , is like + 20+ damage..
BUT , order of the beast = a flyer ...

Grand Lodge

You could do Monsterous mount for a Griffen and do order of the sword. Get both.

But if I had to chose only 1 I prefer flying utility. Helps u take your mount more places. Damage is great but if your team mates might like getting a round in on a boss. Makes for a more memorable character IMHO.


tend to agree.
beast also offer a siwmmer, a climber , a flyer and later - a dragon..
my DM is open to OTHER mounts as monsreous mount - as long as you "pay" the 2 feat cost...
i am thinkning on a Blink dog or even, a hellcat - and we both grab hide in plain sight.
i am gonna ask my DM to allow a celectial, awaken medium flyer like, Heron, Raven, Vulture. int, DR and flying - very EPIC ...
skirmighing in and out - chargning, and if i am off the mount?
full BAB , power attack and smite are there...

order of the Sword has much to offer ... +2 will saves , fea and super DPR - beast might save 2 feats.

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