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Well, beyond me, there are several that I know that seemingly have visited these forums and never want to deal with PF again due to this idea given to them from these forums...but hey...
As 5e gains ground (which I actually don't like, believe it or not) and more people are chased away by those who present PF as a game that's too complex and only fit for those who power their characters appropriately...well...they'll hastily agree and go play games where they aren't told they aren't carrying their weight.
This idea of no one should play unless they can understand all the rules or complexities, or other ridiculous things which I DO see presented on these forums (and even used as excuses of why people prefer other games systems such as 5e over PF) in order to make characters that aren't underpowered and such nonsense...well...
I see it as one of many reasons people are switching to other systems.
So....perhaps that's the problem...where people see others acting in this way all the time on these forums (and some purportedly elsewhere, but as I have said, I haven't seen it...but people use that as an excuse as well to switch from PF to other games) others want to pretend that this type of thing doesn't exist...and those people switching out from PF don't exist either.
Unfortunately, reality is I think 5e and other game systems has taken many of those who play PF in numbers and sales. I have no idea how many currently, but there are rumors and stories (for example, from Black Diamond) that seem to correlate this idea.
I love PF, but I hate the way it is portrayed on these forums and other places at times. I currently am forced to play 5e and other RPGs (though I have tried to toss PF stuff into them at times) because my group really doesn't want anything more to do with PF right now...
Still working on trying to convert them back though...these forums don't help typically...and unfortunately.
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How .. are these forums doing anything to your home group? I mean, it is words on a screen. Why do you or they or anyone give them any more weight than "Some person somewhere said something?"
Maybe they and others want to play 5E because it is the new kid on the block? Something different and perhaps more interesting than the game they've been playing?
I don't think it is because people are somehow being meanies online and that is driving people away, or else everywhere else on the internet where people are so much worse would see people moving to other things in droves.
tl;dr: Your group changed. Don't blame the boards.
Edit to add: And for the love of every god, it's an internet maxim not to read the comments. If you and yours do not want the information on the forums here or elsewhere, don't read them. This is basic self-defense.
How .. are these forums doing anything to your home group? I mean, it is words on a screen. Why do you or they or anyone give them any more weight than "Some person somewhere said something?"
Maybe they and others want to play 5E because it is the new kid on the block? Something different and perhaps more interesting than the game they've been playing?
I don't think it is because people are somehow being meanies online and that is driving people away, or else everywhere else on the internet where people are so much worse would see people moving to other things in droves.
tl;dr: Your group changed. Don't blame the boards.
Edit to add: And for the love of every god, it's an internet maxim not to read the comments. If you and yours do not want the information on the forums here or elsewhere, don't read them. This is basic self-defense.
Long story...but overall, them and others relate things back to Pathfinder memes that you only see on these boards typically.
It started prior to that with other things, but later one of them ventured here...and that started the landslide from the various and myriad reasons they've given for not wanting to play PF in favor of other game systems.
On the bright side, even if I dislike 5e, they do look favorably towards Dragon Age with is a pretty cool system and play that occasionally now.
Spiny the gnome didn't trust humans because he grew up on the streets of a human city. The thing was I kept that in my role playing bag of tricks and only pulled it out when it was useful.
One time he gave some Gnome bandits the option to get away and when one of them attacked him, he decided that the head bandit, probably an evil human, corrupted them beyond hope.
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Well, beyond me, there are several that I know that seemingly have visited these forums and never want to deal with PF again due to this idea given to them from these forums...but hey...
I have seen a lot of dubious stuff about playing Pathfinder on the messageboards over the years. So much so, that I even started a thread to debunk or at least address many of the issues that crop up over and over.
I don't really have a solution for fixing perceptions of negativity on the internet. There are always going to be people who read that apples are sometimes better, or more efficient, or whatever, and then run around saying NEVER use oranges, they are unplayable garbage, your PC is going to die, it's badwrongfun, and you are a bad person for thinking otherwise. Extreme pronouncements are always going to be more flashy then insightful subtlety. I think that is the nature of public discourse, peoples opinions are not going to always be of equal value, and it is up to each person to seek out quality information over bluster, and draw their own conclusions.
I would encourage everyone who fees strongly about a topic that continuously pops up, to make a guide, or list, or article, or whatever. This encourages positive, productive discussions, rather then the bickering back and forth that many topics seem to always devolve into.
How .. are these forums doing anything to your home group? I mean, it is words on a screen. Why do you or they or anyone give them any more weight than "Some person somewhere said something?"
Maybe they and others want to play 5E because it is the new kid on the block? Something different and perhaps more interesting than the game they've been playing?
I don't think it is because people are somehow being meanies online and that is driving people away, or else everywhere else on the internet where people are so much worse would see people moving to other things in droves.
tl;dr: Your group changed. Don't blame the boards.
Edit to add: And for the love of every god, it's an internet maxim not to read the comments. If you and yours do not want the information on the forums here or elsewhere, don't read them. This is basic self-defense.
Long story...but overall, them and others relate things back to Pathfinder memes that you only see on these boards typically.
It started prior to that with other things, but later one of them ventured here...and that started the landslide from the various and myriad reasons they've given for not wanting to play PF in favor of other game systems.
On the bright side, even if I dislike 5e, they do look favorably towards Dragon Age with is a pretty cool system and play that occasionally now.
Ah, so it was a problem looking for an excuse and found one in a argument here. Well, that is sort of sad but that seems a local issue and not one that is tied to the forums or Pathfinder in particular.
With luck, you and yours will find things to do that you enjoy.
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Dragon Slayers and Witch burners are classes built around bigotry.
It's not the fault of anyone who wants to play witches or half dragons. It's not the fault of modules that require you to gain information from someone's favored enemy.
It's the fault of anyone who tries to create undead destroyers based on Ash instead of Ghostbusters, who worked with Slimer.
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There are so many people fixated on the name of the character type without actually reading what it says.
It's not saying "don't play a bigot".
EDIT: I apologize, Goth, I think I misread what you intended. I'll keep this post up for others' benefit, but know that it does not necessarily address you.
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They resolved the issue peacefully and gracefully...not like how these boards ...
As does everyone I've ever come across, so I'm not sure what people we're actually railing against?
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*Points gun at Kirth Gersen*
My kind of people.
*Gun shoots out small flag saying "Bang!"*
Okay, that's on me for trying out gnome technology.
*Awkwardly shuffles out*
What exactly is a hedonist in game?
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It's the bard who decides to try to seduce the queen, in the throne room, while the king is delivering your quest. It's the changeling who decides he's going to just chill at the bar, and refuse to get on the plot bus unless it makes a stop downtown in front of his favorite watering hole. It's that one guy who comes along on your spy mission, and thinks it would be a topping idea to start shooting up medical grade amphetamines that actually hinder his prowess while trying to sneak into an enemy base.
The Hedonist is all play, no work, and tends to make amazingly stupid decisions as a result. The best case scenario is that the character stays behind at the tavern. The worst case scenario is that you brought their scabrous, drunken ass with you into a place where you're actually depending on them to perform.
Life of the party.
What exactly is a hedonist in game?
Explained in the article?
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What exactly is a hedonist in game?Explained in the article?
Explaining things in an article is too anime.
I hid a topic where some guy was creating kineticists that couldn't do much besides fight dragons. So, I can't link you. Witch Burner is a parody title. Inquisitors are a safe distance from the Spanish Inquisition and Salem witch trials.
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- The Racist
- The Joke
- The Mute
- The Hedonist
- The Misanthrope
The problem with these 5 character concepts, and realistically any character concept, is that they are not complete characters. They are simply personality traits that are a part of the character. If these concepts are the end all of the character, and the player is using that as an excuse to be disruptive, then you have a player problem; not a character problem.
If your character is racists, what specific races does your character hate? If you're an elf that hates all non-elves, you're probably being a jerk and should stop it (the problem is the player not the character). Why would your elf bother to adventure with non-elves if you truly believe they are all incompetent? But if you're an elf that finds dwarves to be dower and stuffy (making you somewhat racist) it might be perfectly reasonable to you to find yourself caught up in a party with a dwarf. Good role playing opportunities as the elf and dwarf learn to not only get along but to appreciate each others' strengths.
If your character likes to crack a joke or do a few off handed stunts that get a laugh, awesome. If you as a player always do obviously disruptive stuff for a yuk, the problem is obviously the player. Play a plucky comic relief character, but make sure that you're useful too. Otherwise, why would a group of adventurers bother to bring you along with them?
The mute; yeah, thats a problem. Too many people want to play the character by not speaking out of character either. Don't be a jerk, talk out of character to describe what you're doing. The GM does not want to watch you do interpretive dance. Nor do the other players.
The Hedonist is just fun if a player actually understands what a hedonist is. It isn't somebody that wants to sleep with everybody. It isn't about having sex. It is about personal pleasure and enjoyment. A hedonist will enjoy an awesome meal as much as a fling in a bedroom. I play a hedonist that loves to dance. Anytime our party is in a town, I look for someplace to hang out that my character can dance. The other players find it humorous, and it doesn't disrupt the game because it is not 12 year old sexist stupidity. The problem is players that use hedonism as an excuse to talk about having sex all the time ("If there's any girls in the bar..."). At that point, it is a player issue once again.
And the Misanthrope? It's a freaking group activity game. You're playing a member of an adventuring party. Playing somebody that will only work alone is just selfish. Once more, a problem with a player. I've played characters that have a hard time fitting in, but that did not mean I played a character that refused to fit in. I quietly helped out, and kept to the background. I let others be the party face and take the lead. That's being introverted without being a lone wolf. You want to play a lone wolf, the party should just leave on the adventure without you. Why would they want your character along, and why would your character want to go? They wouldn't, you wouldn't, and so they should just leave you behind.
Every one of these character concepts is only a problem if the payer is the problem. Otherwise, they're just personality quirks.
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I disagree. I've had players who are fine as long as they stay away from these types of characters, but once they stray into these common tropes, the trope takes over.
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My gaming group really tries hard to discourage 'the bigot' especially. Not for offensiveness, but that the race they hate often doesn't stay the same, but curiously follows what a specific player is running.I disagree. I've had players who are fine as long as they stay away from these types of characters, but once they stray into these common tropes, the trope takes over.Let's say that, like a lot of things, they're harder to do well. They can be fine, given the right approach and the right player, but they can also be a trap leading even decent players into trouble.
That sounds like an issue with a player.
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While a problem player makes these issues worse, the purpose of this blog is to point out character types that can become traps for anyone not prepared to counter their weak points.
Even a non-problem player is likely to have trouble if they make a Joke or Mute character without considering the ramifications.
Several times at conventions a Dragon Hunter or something wanted to slay something we had to talk to. We had to keep them away till we finished talking to the thing. Creative use of sleep or hold person.
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The OP
Have you seen many players playing as Neal?
In this case OP is "Over Powered", not the original poster.Have you seen many players playing as Neal?The OP
You don't say. :P
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More like between players (it only showed up when that character personality was in play). Less of an issue now, but for sad reasons (one of them died in his sleep late last year).That sounds like an issue with a player.My gaming group really tries hard to discourage 'the bigot' especially. Not for offensiveness, but that the race they hate often doesn't stay the same, but curiously follows what a specific player is running.I disagree. I've had players who are fine as long as they stay away from these types of characters, but once they stray into these common tropes, the trope takes over.Let's say that, like a lot of things, they're harder to do well. They can be fine, given the right approach and the right player, but they can also be a trap leading even decent players into trouble.
Very sorry to hear that. My sympathies.
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I disagree. I've had players who are fine as long as they stay away from these types of characters, but once they stray into these common tropes, the trope takes over.Let's say that, like a lot of things, they're harder to do well. They can be fine, given the right approach and the right player, but they can also be a trap leading even decent players into trouble.
I know the people I game with. Some could handle characters without going over the edge, some can't.
Sometimes it's the player.
Sometimes it's the character.
I know this because I've seen it. People want to counter the OP with saying "people should just be nice", which sounds good, but it's so generic and vague that it's not a particularly interesting conversation, nor is it always useful advice.
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It is still always a problem with the players - that doesn't mean that they are bad players or problem players, just that every player probably has som concepts/ideas he can't bring to life or he (sometimes involuntarily) brings to life in a way that is disruptive (or even destructive) to the game. That doesn't mean that either the concept or the player are a problem, just don't bring them together.