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The unspoken benefit is that (in our neck of the woods) no one shows up without their chronicles. Everyone knows that they've got to have their accounting in order or 'fire up Kyra.'
Does it *have* to be Kyra in Omaha, or would Shardra or Oloch work, too?
At the sake of pedantry, if being *forced* to play a particular pregen is a penalty for not having chronicles at hand, shouldn't that be in the Guide?
Sorry, that was unclear:'Fire up Kyra' used as an expression (not an explicit penalty).
Basically, if you're paperwork isn't in order, you cannot play your character. So, instead of heading elsewhere with a sour taste in your mouth, we offer a choice of pregen, *explain the way pregen credit works,* and everyone still gets to have a good time.
Of course, Kyra is the go-to pregen. And considered the best built one.
I can see the hilarity if a group of 6 people all fouled up their math, and everyone opted to play Kyra.
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I try to follow the listed rules. But in all honesty it feels to me like the rules are there mainly so there's a GM on hand to approve a the purchases. Does anyone actually use the (seemingly optional) fields for starting xp and new xp total? Or do they just add up xp via counting chronicles?
XP. If you play modules at all there's a difference, also if you failboat a mission you can have a chronicle with zero xp
True, but again by counting chronicles you can pretty much figure out how much xp you have. I don't mean by counting the actual sheets, but by looking at the xp and prestige listed. Of course if you never run modules you actually can count the sheets too.
And yeah, just had to report a We Be Goblins session as failboated. Not party wiped, but 3 of the 4 players abandoned the PBP game. So chronicles with zero xp, greatly reduced gold, and most of the treasures crossed off.
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I'm partial to Shardra, because she's sort of like a Swiss Army Knife that's been handy in the tables I've played her at.Of course, Kyra is the go-to pregen. And considered the best built one.
I can see the hilarity if a group of 6 people all fouled up their math, and everyone opted to play Kyra.
I'd be interested in trying out the kineticist pregen sometime. The character sounded fun. But sadly the few times I'd had to grab a pregen, it was core.
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Contributor
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The pregens are what the pregens are. Prevailing opinions of them are hard on the ranger, but I'll tell you this. In a certain scenario that included a visit to a certain museum when it was overrun by freaking high-DR EXTRATERRESTRIAL SUPER-ROBOTS my longest serving PFS character had his inefficient self saved, as did the rest of the party, by a cleverly played Harsk. Wound up with a teapot full of nanites, that dwarf did.
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True, but again by counting chronicles you can pretty much figure out how much xp you have. I don't mean by counting the actual sheets, but by looking at the xp and prestige listed. Of course if you never run modules you actually can count the sheets too.
Depends on your leveling style and how many character you're keeping track of. I mean some of my characters have scenario module scenario scenario half 0 prestige boon sheet speed half speed half speed scenario 0 prestige boon sheet half speed module half speed dm credits X3 Full speed module...
Being 1 xp off has the potential for a lot more effects than being 1 gold off or missing a charge on a wand. It can mess with level, tier, subtier, gold earned, or even legality to play in a scenario.
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That's true BigNorseWolf. I was all panicky last month with Xao, my core monk since my Hero Lab porfolio didn't match what my math said it should after going over my chronicles. It turned out I'd forgotten to input one of my chronicles into the Hero Lab journal for my character. Fortunately the mistake didn't really affect anything. It was more a case of the new chronicle being level up according to counting the chronicles, but hero lab said I was still one xp away.
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I'd be interested in trying out the kineticist pregen sometime. The character sounded fun. But sadly the few times I'd had to grab a pregen, it was core.
We played some of the Phantom Phenomena quests recently, limiting ourselves to only the Occult pregens. Yoon (the kineticist) was great fun to play, as was Estra (the spirtualist).
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Does anyone actually use the (seemingly optional) fields for starting xp and new xp total? Or do they just add up xp via counting chronicles?
I don't think anyone's trying to say that the chronicle sheets don't need to be filled out. I can't imagine trying to keep track of the levels of 20 PCs (yes, I really do have that many) without having the latest xp and prestige totals written in the proper boxes on their latest chronicles.
The argument is whether those fields need to be filled out before the GM signs the sheet. As is, GMs usually hand out the sheets with only the GM stuff filled in, and the players take them home and fill out the rest on their own time.
Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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I haven't gone through this entire thread. I'm about to head out to South Dakota for Vermincon.
But I just wanted to assure you all, as the lead on the Guide Revision Task Force, we will make sure that all language in the guide is cleaned up, current, and no longer redundant (so future revisions don't have to remember to change rules in more than one place.)
I'll come back to this thread though, to peruse it for what some of the common interpretations and confusions are, so that we can try to clear it all up with what was actually intended.
Thank you Andrew.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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That you jump to conclusions based on incomplete information? Yes, it is too bad.That is certainly a conclusion you could draw.That is too bad.
Lets be honest. I was not given complete information. So yes, it is too bad that I was directed into a conclusion.
What was your conclusion for that conversation?
Please reframe from attacking me. I will defend myself.
Thank you,
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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The argument is whether those fields need to be filled out before the GM signs the sheet. As is, GMs usually hand out the sheets with only the GM stuff filled in, and the players take them home and fill out the rest on their own time.
And to help add a little more clarity, this practice appears to be violating the guide instructions on how chronicles are SUPPOSE to be completed.
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There is no such thing as "RAW".I haven't before and still don't understand why you insist on making this claim. Of course there's such a thing as it. Just because you don't like the term doesn't mean it's not a real thing.Here is an excellent philosophical viewpoint of the subject.
In this case, the author is discussing professional baseball. You would think that in a sport that generates annually, that RAW would reign above all else. Not so fast. The author explains it much better than I possibly could, but the TL;DR is "the spirit of the game" (RAI) is more important than the rules.
Very interesting read.
A notable quote from the linked text:
Rules should be interpreted in such a manner that the excellences embodied in achieving the lusory goal of the game are not undermined but are maintained and fostered.Something to consider when applying rules in an activity that we engage in as amateur recreation.* These Chronicles foster the spirit of the organized play, but let's not let the rules for filling them out be so burdensome to inhibit the actual goal of the game: having fun in a social setting. We aren't talking about tax forms here.
** spoiler omitted **
I didn't click on the link, but your very summary (TL;DR) supports my claim that RAW exist (i.e. "more important than the rules). You claiming that RAI exist supports that RAW exists. There isn't one without the other.
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There isn't one without the other.There absolutely is. You will never have RAW because you always have to interpret the rules. Sometimes the rules will only have one interpretation, but that is the closest you will ever get to RAW.
We'll just have to agree to disagree. Obviously a philosophical linguist is going to have a different outlook on things than a software engineer. One thing we jokingly say at work when someone comes to us with an issue is "working as written".
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Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
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Obviously a philosophical linguist is going to have a different outlook on things than a software engineer.I'm actually a network admin. :)
I write software specs and other similar tech documents. Part of the job is writing them such that the distance between the client's RAI and the programmer's RAI is as small as possible. If the distance is too large, we don't get paid. And of the two, what isn't going to change is the client's RAI.
If anything this is a very important subject for software engineers.
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That you jump to conclusions based on incomplete information? Yes, it is too bad.That is certainly a conclusion you could draw.That is too bad.Lets be honest. I was not given complete information. So yes, it is too bad that I was directed into a conclusion.
What was your conclusion for that conversation?
Please reframe from attacking me. I will defend myself.
Thank you,
You were not directed to a conclusion, you decided, independently, to draw a conclusion based on insufficient information. Whether the conclusion you draw is correct or not is immaterial, it is formed on a basis of air.
My conclusion for that conversation? That TOZ was trying to be cute, in his own, inimitable, fashion. I did not have enough information, at that time, to draw a conclusion. I did form a hypothesis, but that has, privately, been dis-proven. Live and learn.
I did not attack you, I simply stated that, in my opinion, it was sad that you showed a tendency, in this thread at least, of jumping to unfounded conclusions. Oh, and by the way, I believe the word you want to use is refrain, reframe would be something a painter does to a picture...
My apologies if my reaction to your post or posts is negative. Maybe that is my response to how you present yourself in writing on the forums.
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On the topic of the thread, the ITS system of tracking purchases seems to work just fine. Since we finished a good hour early and my ride didn't need to leave asap, I spoke with the RC who'd game mastered the last session I played Xao in. I showed him my item tracking sheet, pointing out the new buys I was planning. He double checked my chronicles allowed the magic item and verified I did have the gold to buy everything. Since everything checked out, he asked if I was aware of other options (I was but decided I needed more damage at the moment and not ghost touch, yet). And since I had enough fame to buy a 4000 gold item, it got approved.
No muss, no fuss, and the book work was already finished. I just needed approval. If it'd not been approved, I'd have erased the unapproved items from my item tracking sheet and updated my character sheet to reflect not having spent gold on the amulet.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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My apologies if my reaction to your post or posts is negative. Maybe that is my response to how you present yourself in writing on the forums.
Thank you. I believe I overacted so please accept apologies back.
From the way that TOZ and Steve were talking I was lead to believe that were one in the same (are they? I still don't know). Because of this, it appeared to me that my question was no going to receive a direct answer for whatever reason so I drew the conclusion that I believe I was lead to have.
In any case, not a major issue and no need to continue wasting space here on it.
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My apologies if my reaction to your post or posts is negative. Maybe that is my response to how you present yourself in writing on the forums.Thank you. I believe I overacted so please accept apologies back.
From the way that TOZ and Steve were talking I was lead to believe that were one in the same (are they? I still don't know). Because of this, it appeared to me that my question was no going to receive a direct answer for whatever reason so I drew the conclusion that I believe I was lead to have.
In any case, not a major issue and no need to continue wasting space here on it.
Look at the profiles of each and you should be able to figure it out.
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Reading through this thread has given me a lot to think about ( although maybe not so much the RAW vs RAI portion ).
I do think that having a rule for it not to be applied by what seems to be a large majority of the PFS community (or at least those who participate on these forums) is silly. Either we follow that rule and there are real repercussions for those who do not fill in the chronicle sheets correctly (I'm looking at you, people who fill these in pencil) or the rule needs to be modified.
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Reading through this thread has given me a lot to think about ( although maybe not so much the RAW vs RAI portion ).
I do think that having a rule for it not to be applied by what seems to be a large majority of the PFS community (or at least those who participate on these forums) is silly. Either we follow that rule and there are real repercussions for those who do not fill in the chronicle sheets correctly (I'm looking at you, people who fill these in pencil) or the rule needs to be modified.
There is no requirement that they be filled out in pen. Gamers often grab the first writing utensil handy and thats usually a pencil. Calling it improper and therefore not legal to deny someone the ability to play their own character is both baseless and twitish.
What the people against filling in the blanks later don't seem to understand is that when the player is done the results look exactly the same" something as i filled out at the table. There's nothing for a later dm TO object to. The only thing it does is give the player time between sessions to shop
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did he make you all play Pregens?
Of course not. I haven't read this whole conversation, is that a reference to something or a legitimate question?
edit: I guess I should add that this was at the end of the night when he was filling in Chronicle sheets. He did not start the night by saying "anything you've bought since last game needs to be recorded here." I got the impression that it was "anything you want to buy before you play next needs to be recorded here before I sign."
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did he make you all play Pregens?Of course not. I haven't read this whole conversation, is that a reference to something or a legitimate question?
Someone above said they would do that for messed up chronicle sheets.
'I believe it was also a joke as chronicle sheets come at the end of the adventure and it would be too late.
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Venture-Captain, Nebraska—Omaha
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did he make you all play Pregens?Of course not. I haven't read this whole conversation, is that a reference to something or a legitimate question?
edit: I guess I should add that this was at the end of the night when he was filling in Chronicle sheets. He did not start the night by saying "anything you've bought since last game needs to be recorded here." I got the impression that it was "anything you want to buy before you play next needs to be recorded here before I sign."
If it was framed that way than I can see players would not do it. The guide does not say that future purchases need to be recorded. Only Purchases made after the last adventure and the adventure just getting started.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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[Here is a hint... Players are to "note all items purchased or sold, including spellcasting services, in the the notes section (V)".This is the rule that was changed since the Guide was released, as per a post from Mike Brock.
(Actually, I think it was changed early in Season 6, and somehow the change didn't make it into the Season 7 Guide.) You do not have to enumerate purchases on the chronicle sheet any more.
Having gone back and looked, the change was:
"Yes, you have to note all items purchased, but your note can be simply 'items purchased = 4739gp'"
Which begs the question, then what is the point of the "gold spent" line?
If the character/player makes purchases between sessions to go on the succeeding chronicle, he would add the purchases on the ITS for that chronicle plus any last minute purchases made during the session (like Cold Weather Gear), including bribes, party rez costs, donations to the clergy and paying for services at the temple of Calistria, and put that total in the Gold Spent box. This is assuming the player is not making any other new purchases at the end of the game, taking time to peruse the market/look through books/Herolab and putting the next purchases that are made between sessions on the next chronicle.
Notes can be "Items purchases for x amount" and can even reference huge purchases like armor upgrades and such, and notes about the bribes and services can remind the player of the session and what they had done.
I use an excel file that keeps track of the monies, and I make sure that it matches my Herolab totals (or vice versa).
I still get a little lost in the newer chronicles when there is only one line to put the gold spent total, but it is just a total of what is on the ITS and the various things during the session.
Realistically, it is the best way to do the purchases as most times, the player/character does not have time to do these purchases at the beginning of the game nor is there a lot of time, typically, to do purchases at the end before the table breaks.
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Venture-Lieutenant, Indiana—Martinsville
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As for filling out the top and sides, I have had GMs (and have done this myself at CONs) fill out the Pathfinder number and character number on the chronicles. Usually, I have the number on Init cards, but I have made sure to ask the player to clarify the number as I write it on the sheet.
Some things that are mistaken/forgotten on the ITS and the chronicle. The boxes on the ITS are for when the item is gained (gained on chronicle number), expended or sold. There is a box in the upper right corner that is labeled "Chronicle number" that needs to be denoted which number the chronicle is for that character. (Chronicle 1,2,3,4...)
I still have players that have used these boxes as check marks.
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Also that entire section still refers to parts of a chronicle sheet that aren't there anymore. Having a DM sign the chronicle sheet to verify a different piece of paper is like me using a chronicle sheet signature to verify a blank check...
Anyone know a bank that will do that by the way?
Use it to verify that someone had filled out a check and forgot to sign it? No way.
Use it as a comparable signature of someone I know both at and away from work? Probably not. :P