Hi
For the past year I've been playing with a group doing a Rise of the Runelords adventure with dungeons from others modules mixed in for variation. (fighting giants got a bit stale) We have a bard(arcane duelist)/arcane archer, wizard/lore master, a fighter(armor master) and me a fighter/brawler. We're level 12. The DM and I are vets when it comes to tabletop RPGs and the others are moderately experienced.
However our armor master, the "tank" (in a very MMO way), get upset when things start going sour for him. This crops up when he hits below 3/4th HP or is controlled by magic/grapple. Sometimes he'll just huff and leave the table to walk around, but other times he'll try to be destructive in the game world and put our party in jeopardy to "win".(in his words) He'll try and cut support beams with his adamantium sword to collapse a house or mine with everyone in it, make risky jumps when he doesn't have to, he'll treat charm person as dominate monster, and be a putz to roll saves for on-going effects because he believe he's just going to fail. The only time he "likes" to be controlled is when he gets to fight the other party members (something he loves to do in MMOs) or can delay our short sessions.
I've been fortunate not have a problem player (either GMing or playing) in the past 20-odd years. But is there any way you guys help instill a sense of good sportsmanship in your players? We talk to him about it, but his sourness eventually creeps back. I (and indeed the rest of people involved) don't want to ask him to leave cause he's alright (though quiet) when he's not grumpy. Any suggestions? Thank you for any input.
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Time for him to grow up.
Seriously.
"Oh, waahhh, my fighter is grappled. Now I'm going to sulk and try to get the whole party TPK'd". Childish.
So it's time to have another talk with him, but this time be hard core. Tell him he's being childish. Tell him it will not be tolerated anymore. Be nice about it; tell him you like the guy and like gaming with him, but you don't like it when he gets childish and he needs to stop so that everyone, including himself, can enjoy the game a whole lot more.
And tell him that if he can't knock it off, you'll have no choice but to replace him with someone who can behave in a more mature fashion.
If he's smart, he'll listen and do something about it. Childish + smart = able to learn and grow. If he's not smart, he'll get pissed and quit, or make things worse until you guys (including the GM) throw him out. Childish + stupid = irredeemable. Get rid of irredeemable players, but help the ones able to learn and grow - help them TO learn and grow.
Either way it's a win for you. Let's hope it's a win for him, too
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"Suicidal Player" is a misleading thread title.
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I would try and get him to temper his expectations. TTRPGs dont act very much like MMOs in many ways, and players should understand that. With that said, Id also try and find out what exactly he wants out of the game and try and get that to him. Sounds like he is getting frustrated/bored with nothing lining up with his expectations/desires from the game. He is acting out to derail the game because his game has indirectly been derailed. This behavior is undesirable and Id make sure to point that out.
If the group and player can not come around, I would then ask him to leave. You can lead a gamer to mt. dew but you cant make them drink or sometimes your best friends make the worst gamers. Good luck.
Honestly? It sound to me that he is a player having a bad time and acting out.
It appears to me atleast that he isnt enjoying playing his PC as far as mechanics go.
I would first confirm this theory and then work on the issue if it is present.
It seems that his expectations aren't matching up to the class/archetype he's picked. Tanking doesn't work in Pathfinder the same way it does in mmos; there are few(and most aren't legal) abilities that cause an enemy to focus on you instead of your pals.
The only way to stop enemies from attacking your other party members when you are playing a martial such as a fighter is either to kill them quickly or disable them momentarily through maneuvers and feats(look at dazing assault).
The armor master archetype while offering more defense against things that cause HP damage does nothing to deal with the fighter's horrible will saving throw(Which is why he is probably getting controlled/disabled all the time) and worse still it lowers the fighter's damage significantly because it trades out weapon training for that extra defense. While maneuvers are still an option they will only be useful for a certain amount of time before monsters start getting a significant amount of CMD which can't be beaten without a class or archetype built for buffing CMB.
What I suggest is offering the player a chance to roll a new character, but this time he has to be armed with the knowledge that "tanking" in pathfinder is very different.
If he still wants to play a fighter and wants to go with the maneuver route I suggest he picks up the Cad archetype or the Lore Warden archetype.
If he just wants to go for pure damage and kill enemies faster the Two-handed Fighter archetype should be perfect for him.
Whichever he chooses please be sure the character has a wisdom score that is 10 or above and have him pick up the Iron Will feat.
Should he decide to play something besides from the fighter the barbarian should serve him well, especially with the capability to pick rage powers that will buff his saving throws against spells in a huge way.
Slayer is also a good pick and offers him a host of skills, which he can use when there are no enemies to thrash.
Both the barbarian and slayer offer archetypes that buff the Dirty Trick maneuver should he again consider using those to disable enemies and keep them from attacking the other party members.
"Suicidal Player" is a misleading thread title.
Agreed. Maybe a mod could change it to "Suicidal Character"?
I have to wonder if what he wants is to play PvP games. Although it also sounds like he is a poor loser.
Thanks everyone.
Yes, Suicidal Player is very misleading now that I look back, hah hah. My intention was the player was having his Neutral Good character act suicidal, but I can see how that is interpreted VERY VERY VEEERY differently.
A different build would help- he's all AC and bull rushes with little damage, no saves, and only got a bow at level 11. There's times his character is just not any help in a fight (which really sucks as a fighter) and that certainly compounds the problem. At the same time, he's pretty married to the character. He loves them tanky types.
I'll take some time to talk to him about it. That seems like the most pertinent move.
It seems that his expectations aren't matching up to the class/archetype he's picked. Tanking doesn't work in Pathfinder the same way it does in mmos; there are few(and most aren't legal) abilities that cause an enemy to focus on you instead of your pals.
That's what I told him when he explained his build to me. But he's stubborn on getting level cap to unlock that huge DR that stacks with Ad. full plate. (even though we're only going to LV 15-16. I don't think he understands that yet, the GM made it clear on how far we're going.)
Time for him to grow up...
That was my first reaction to his sulking- "It happens. Lots of creatures can lock you down. But what matters is if the team can pull though and get you back on your feet." 20 gaming years of death, control spells, and failures made me numb to such aspects of the game. You just gotta roll with it and use the time you're screwed to think of ways to prevent/lessen the impact of similar events in the future.
But I've always been reactive when commenting about his behavior, I have to be proactive next session. I'll see if I can get my friend (the wizard, who is also sick of his behavior) to help out.
Thank you everyone- this a big help.
We had someone in our group who caused a lot of problems, both for the GM and for the other players. Eventually the GM got fed up with it (after having talked to him about it many times over the years) and banned him from the next game he was running (we were between games at the time). This left him out of the gaming group for the next couple of years. We eventually had a short-run game we let him into to prove he'd learned his lesson, and later he was allowed to rejoin the main group.
He still has his moments of pettiness and sulking (I find many people do), but he's much improved after some time away to think about the effect he was having on the rest of the group. He needed the extreme consequences to realize how much he was pissing us off.
but he's much improved after some time away to think about the effect he was having on the rest of the group.
I bet he thought about nothing else during those two yeas...
What he needed was consequences. He was disruptive, he was talked to, he was warned, none of that worked. Then he suffered a consequence (kicked out of the group) which caused him to realize, in that moment, that his behavior was unacceptable. The rest of the two years was the price he paid, not time he spent thinking about his behavior.
Me, I probably would have only made it for a month or so, with a probationary return.
But either way, it worked.