ElvenBlubber's page

Thanks everyone.

Yes, Suicidal Player is very misleading now that I look back, hah hah. My intention was the player was having his Neutral Good character act suicidal, but I can see how that is interpreted VERY VERY VEEERY differently.

A different build would help- he's all AC and bull rushes with little damage, no saves, and only got a bow at level 11. There's times his character is just not any help in a fight (which really sucks as a fighter) and that certainly compounds the problem. At the same time, he's pretty married to the character. He loves them tanky types.

I'll take some time to talk to him about it. That seems like the most pertinent move.

It seems that his expectations aren't matching up to the class/archetype he's picked. Tanking doesn't work in Pathfinder the same way it does in mmos; there are few(and most aren't legal) abilities that cause an enemy to focus on you instead of your pals.

That's what I told him when he explained his build to me. But he's stubborn on getting level cap to unlock that huge DR that stacks with Ad. full plate. (even though we're only going to LV 15-16. I don't think he understands that yet, the GM made it clear on how far we're going.)

Time for him to grow up...

That was my first reaction to his sulking- "It happens. Lots of creatures can lock you down. But what matters is if the team can pull though and get you back on your feet." 20 gaming years of death, control spells, and failures made me numb to such aspects of the game. You just gotta roll with it and use the time you're screwed to think of ways to prevent/lessen the impact of similar events in the future.

But I've always been reactive when commenting about his behavior, I have to be proactive next session. I'll see if I can get my friend (the wizard, who is also sick of his behavior) to help out.

Thank you everyone- this a big help.

Hi

For the past year I've been playing with a group doing a Rise of the Runelords adventure with dungeons from others modules mixed in for variation. (fighting giants got a bit stale) We have a bard(arcane duelist)/arcane archer, wizard/lore master, a fighter(armor master) and me a fighter/brawler. We're level 12. The DM and I are vets when it comes to tabletop RPGs and the others are moderately experienced.

However our armor master, the "tank" (in a very MMO way), get upset when things start going sour for him. This crops up when he hits below 3/4th HP or is controlled by magic/grapple. Sometimes he'll just huff and leave the table to walk around, but other times he'll try to be destructive in the game world and put our party in jeopardy to "win".(in his words) He'll try and cut support beams with his adamantium sword to collapse a house or mine with everyone in it, make risky jumps when he doesn't have to, he'll treat charm person as dominate monster, and be a putz to roll saves for on-going effects because he believe he's just going to fail. The only time he "likes" to be controlled is when he gets to fight the other party members (something he loves to do in MMOs) or can delay our short sessions.

I've been fortunate not have a problem player (either GMing or playing) in the past 20-odd years. But is there any way you guys help instill a sense of good sportsmanship in your players? We talk to him about it, but his sourness eventually creeps back. I (and indeed the rest of people involved) don't want to ask him to leave cause he's alright (though quiet) when he's not grumpy. Any suggestions? Thank you for any input.

Say I want to play a rogue with oracle as my subclass- does the character get bonus spells via the Mystery class feature? If I do, how many times per day can I cast the spells? Or is it assumed the character doesn't get any because it lacks a spell list?

That's where my BS radar started going off- I saw other entries with the same sentences. My buddy interpret that when you take the Combat Stamina feat you gain everything associated with it- even if you normally could not normally utilize it because you lack the feat. He likened it too how some feats, like Dragon Ferocity, interacts with other feats, namely Elemental Fist.

Later, we find a crucial sentence under the Combat Stamina entry that further clarified it:

Special: Since you have a stamina pool, you can spend
your stamina points to use any combat tricks associated
with combat feats you possess.

Not that he was trying to be a munchkin or anything, we just like combing over the rules before we use them. Sometimes you don't see the forest for the trees, ya know?

Cool, my buddies were picking over the exact meaning of the sentence- thank you for clearing that up!

Under certain feats, like Combat Expertise, the entry states that "You gain the benefit of this feat only as
long as you have at least 1 stamina point in your stamina
pool." Does this mean players with the Combat Stamina feat benefit from the feat (like Combat Expertise) and only works when they have 1 or more stamina point? (Like how a having one or more ki points helps a Monk overcome damage reductions) Or is this line simply stating a limitation on Combat Expertise and related feats only functioning when the creature has one or more stamina points?

Great- thanks everyone this really helped me get a better grip on the trickier parts of PF rules and character building.

You cannot Vital Strike during a grapple attempt, but you can do this:
Move action-maintain a grapple, do something grapply
Swift action-do something grapply
Standard action-make an attack action with Vital Strike

I think that's what Elven Blubber was suggesting.

Yep- that's what I was getting at.

I wanted to see how a build dipping into one level of fighter fared against pure Tetori. So I hammered out the Stats, Feats, AC, CMB,CMD, magic item buys, and average damage output for levels 1, 5, 10, and 15.(I'm too burned out to do 20 right now) I also compared the numbers to about 10 randomly selected CR appropriate (with a few bonus +2-4 CR) monsters to see if the builds actually work against the creatures the wrestlers are fighting. (they are hitting those CMDs with regularity- nice) The feats for both builds are nearly identical (save for the extra fighter feat) and concentrated on the Final Embrace line with no Hamalatsu or Vital Strikes. The general idea was to run up, bear hug, and crush enemies with constrict.

The numbers (so far) are telling- The armor spike build had higher damage outputs and better AC. Though the gap for AC closes as the levels rose. Pure tetori builds had better CMB and CMD and was much cheaper- giving the player the option to purchase higher quality items/more items compared to the armor build. This in turn, can make the pure Tetori better at adapting to situations (flying creatures, environmental hazards, magic...) with items. This also meant pure Tetoris could chase down bad guys waaaay better then armored ones thanks to Fast Movement. Though as the levels rose, the two builds had closer CMBs (around 1 to 3 point difference) but the pure tertori always had much higher CMD. Of course, I want to double check the math, try different magic items, and figure out level 20 before saying anything concrete.

I'm pretty sure they'll mostly even out at LV20 with the biggest difference being the damage output VS adaptation. Neat how a single level dip can affect a character! Though the math isn't be all end all,(qualitative factors exist when its game time!) it'll give me a good idea what to expect as I level the character.

It would be cool to look into Scott Wilhelm's idea. Looks very powerful, though not what I'm envisioning for my specific character. My visions of glory is a guy busting people up with his own two hands rather than using mutagens and magic. Mine may not be truly optimal, but I think its fun and still effective for laying down pain and limiting a baddy's options.

I highly recommend a 2 level dip in Cavalier with the Order of the Penitent....

Once you have Greater Grapple and Expert Captor, just focus on things that improve your Grapple Mod. Take 1 level in Alchemist...

Woah! That's pretty cool. Our party has a good amount of control and buffs through our tanky warrior, battle field control wizard and bard/oracle. The big bonuses do look sweet, but I feel like I'll lose out on some of the Tetori's class abilities like ghost touch and iron body. I may try it out if we party wipe and switch up roles

I'd nab Anaconda's Coils as soon as you can manage, so you can take the Final Embrace Feat. It lets you Grab creatures your size or smaller without spending Ki, and also gives you Constrict.

That is a must have. Wow! I didn't know abilities granted by magic items let you qualify for feats. I was going for the Final Embrace line, but didn't feel like it made a good impact when constrict came in (naturally) very late at level 15 and I could only get the first two feats. This changes everything.

My pfs tetori didnt go for turtle style. Its a nice sryle to get free grapples off, but the ac boosts require a free hand. So you either loose it while grappling (what you should be most of the time) or take a huge penalty to grapple with one hand.

I was looking at dragon or monkey style for my tetori. Decided on monkey for the cool weirdness...

Ah- very true. I think I'll change the turtle for dragon to gain a bit more damage. Though monkey looks like a good style too. I'll keep armor on, I feel like the armor enchantments are too good to pass up.

Stay pure Tetori. Drop Vital Strike. Drop Hamatulatsu feats. At mid-levels, pick up Final Embrace feat line and Pinning KO as they are your friends for massive damage output.

Body Slot should be used for Body Wrap of Mighty Strikes to boost your Unarmed Damage when constricting or grappling to do damage.

Pinning KO comes at level 10- but I can see how picking it up earlier can speed up fights.

I read that Vital Strikes can be good in a grapple build after you get Greater and Rapid Grapple. You can you can pin with the first check (move action), if the first check success you can then unarmed strike/tie up/move/ect with the swift action gained by Rapid grapple, and Vital Strike with the standard action you have left. Is this a wrong interpretation or should I be doing something else with the last grapple check?

And thank you- I've been looking for the name of that magic item.

As for the feats- I guess I've been making too many fighter builds, hah.

Thanks for the input everyone- this has already given me lots of ideas.

That's a very nifty item! I'll certainly pick that up.

That's a good point on the Hamatula. The feat line may be a better option for a full BAB Grappler-centric character.

Heya! I'm a longtime tabletop/role player first time Pathfinder player. Lovin' it. I'm starting a long haul campaign (levels 1 through 18-20) and I'm currently playing a face beater 2-handed fighter with lots of attack options (lunge, cleave, and all that jazz) but I want a backup character encase he bites the dust.

I'm a sucker for strange play styles and the Tetori looks like fun. Sure, they get gimped by swarms and slimes, but you get to suplex ghosts. How cool is that? After chugging down the rules the swishing for a while I came up with some kooky ideas and picked up some tips from guides and forum posts. My DM is allowing us to use just about any PF published book, cause he's nearly got all of them. But I have a few questions that I hope the PF community can help me with:

1: Is the Hamatulatsu line of feats good for a grapple build? The idea of getting a grapple off a charge, an Attack of Opportunity, Stunning fist, or Vital Strike regardless of enemy size sounds sweet, even with the penalty. Or is simply running up and giving a killer brograb just a better option most of the time?

I've been toying with the idea of putting armor on the Tetori monk early-mid levels instead of relying on the AC bonus monks' get. I'll take a one level dip into fighter for the boat load of proficiencies, +1 BABs, extra feat and pick up a chain shirt with armor spikes (Mithral breastplate later on). I'll lose Fast Movement, but that can be offset with magic items/buffs or burning a Ki point to increase the Tetori's movement speed. Strangely, it looks like the Ki ability doesn't care if a monk wears armor. (If I'm wrong in the assumption, let me know.)

2: Are there any other Tetori/monk specific penalties I should know about before tossing armor on this guy?

The main reason for this is armor enchantments. Namely I'm interested in the Grinding Enchant to further increase my damage output while grappling.

3: The Grinding Enchantment description states the enchantment counts as armor spikes. Does that mean it is armor spikes (D6 +enchantment bonus when I make a grapple check) or does it use the rules for armor spikes and just deals the flat enchantment bonus on a successful grapple check? If it is the latter, what happens if I affix spikes to the armor?

Here's the starting stats and feat progression. Not overly concerned about optimizing stats. I think it's solid, but if you have any advice, let me know!

Thanks for any help with my questions!