Suppose i could possibly convince a gm to allow an elemental (aether) bloodline sorcerer who shoots force attacks, should i? Is it worth losing some of the bloodline powers (though i could crossblood to replace them)? Is it even more powerful enough to warrant the maneuvering to talk the GM into it?
Talk him into playing Hero system and build this to your heart's content.
Failing that, I have a question for you.
Are you building this to "win Pathfinder" or are you building it because it would be a fun and interesting, while totally balanced, character concept that you would like to play.
If it's the former, then just don't. If it's the latter, then any sensible GM should jump at the chance to enable you to play what you want, so there should be no question of whether it "warrants the maneuvering" to talk to him.
Unless by "maneuvering" you mean "tricking him into letting you 'win Pathfinder', in which case, just don't.
Talk him into playing Hero system and build this to your heart's content.
i have no idea what that system is but our group plays pathfinder only (also this is for the GM's baby of a homebrew game where we are going mythic to try and keep Rovagug locked up, so i don't think power will be TOO much for it)
Failing that, I have a question for you.
Are you building this to "win Pathfinder" or are you building it because it would be a fun and interesting, while totally balanced, character concept that you would like to play.
from personal experience (and the gm telling me as well) i tend to get hooked on a cool idea then i "subconsciously optimize" as he puts it, honestly i have no concept of balance but my characters tend towards the higher end of the power scale, to answer your question though, no i dont play to "win Pathfinder"
If it's the former, then just don't. If it's the latter, then any sensible GM should jump at the chance to enable you to play what you want, so there should be no question of whether it "warrants the maneuvering" to talk to him.
Unless by "maneuvering" you mean "tricking him into letting you 'win Pathfinder', in which case, just don't.
he tends to be a bit more on the RAW side of things (maybe partially because he plays in a game i run as well, so we try not to make each other angry) so by maneuvering i mean "trying to talk him into allowing a technicality for the case of a cool idea"
However, i have no idea how crazy the ability to swap elemental damage to force is (the character is dipping 1 level Spellslinger wizard for the magic gun shenanigans)
Force damage is a big benefit over elemental damage, so it should cost you something significant.
Well you can already just chose mainly force spells and shoot more than a few of them out a gun via a spellslinger dip.
While yes this is possible those spells are few and far between, and most tend to be much weaker in damage because they have secondary effects
but a bloodline all about making everything force? is squiffy at best.
not a new bloodline, using the Elemental bloodline (which would lose the Elemental Movement ability effectively since aether doesn't have an associated movement mode)
Since force is considerablly better damaging than anything else. so much so they usually knock the damage down considerably for its use.
is it really though? It deals the same amount of damage, the only difference between Force and Fire effectively is that Force is resisted less often
You could easily fluff the Aether kinetcist by holding a gun.
otherwise I would probably do Arcane bloodline or arcanist (they get a force shot)
While i COULD do it i would prefer going with spellslinger because i love the idea of it
It's much better than fire actually. I can't even name anything with force resistance, plenty with fire though. Force damage spells are pretty solid as they are and don't need a buff. More of them could exist for sure, I think. I happen to like them myself. To be honest, it might not be what you mean to do, but what you are looking for is:Since force is considerablly better damaging than anything else. so much so they usually knock the damage down considerably for its use.is it really though? It deals the same amount of damage, the only difference between Force and Fire effectively is that Force is resisted less often
- Extra spells with the best damage type in the game, and:
- Increased damage dice from the rather well balanced force spells that do exist.
And you would need to browbeat (or coerce if you prefer, again, I can't presume how you would go about the conversation) your GM to allow all this to start with. I hope you understand at least that this sounds like munchkinry at it's "finest."
But, if your fellow players and GM are okay with letting this thing happen (without excessive pleading mind you), then more power to you. I hope yo all have fun!
EDIT: Post is formatting weird, not sure why.
Since force is considerablly better damaging than anything else. so much so they usually knock the damage down considerably for its use.is it really though? It deals the same amount of damage, the only difference between Force and Fire effectively is that Force is resisted less often
It's much better than fire actually. I can't even name anything with force resistance, plenty with fire though. Force damage spells are pretty solid as they are and don't need a buff. More of them could exist for sure, I think. I happen to like them myself. To be honest, it might not be what you mean to do, but what you are looking for is:
Extra spells with the best damage type in the game, and: Increased damage dice from the rather well balanced force spells that do exist. And you would need to browbeat (or coerce if you prefer, again, I can't presume how you would go about the conversation) your GM to allow all this to start with. I hope you understand at least that this sounds like munchkinry at it's "finest."
But, if your fellow players and GM are okay with letting this thing happen (without excessive pleading mind you), then more power to you. I hope yo all have fun!
For an idea of how Paizo values force damage, let us look at the kineticist: You can deal force damage with one of the Aether composite blasts. That composite blast....deals damage that is nerfed down to the same as a simple blast (and the damage is actually less than the aether simple blast, since it is energy while the simple blast is physical)
As in, you do your simple blast, but you pay 2 burn just for the right to have it deal force damage.
And most likely, you are using kineticist as your basis for this move, right? But you see how kineticist has to pay HARD to do this?
I have made pre existing force spells focused casters. it worked pretty amusingly. Though my main effect was nonlethal force spell.. I forget the name but it is effectively a nonlethal force scorching ray.
I know that I'm not adding much since we seem to be in agreement, but I'm way more proud of myself than I should be that I know the spell you're referring to is called Admonishing Ray. It's kinda neat as a spell, like magic rubber bullets.
For an idea of how Paizo values force damage, let us look at the kineticist: You can deal force damage with one of the Aether composite blasts. That composite blast....deals damage that is nerfed down to the same as a simple blast (and the damage is actually less than the aether simple blast, since it is energy while the simple blast is physical)
As in, you do your simple blast, but you pay 2 burn just for the right to have it deal force damage.
And most likely, you are using kineticist as your basis for this move, right? But you see how kineticist has to pay HARD to do this?
Oof, I'm not especially interested in occult adventures, but the Kineticist would have me interested if it didn't pay so hard for doing everything it does.
the game is mythic and my character concept is pretty suboptimal so i honestly thought the difference in damage (on top of the fact that this character is TWO levels behind in spellcasting compared to a wizard) would be mostly just keeping myself in line with the rest of the party, is this really that bad of an idea? Also,
And you would need to browbeat (or coerce if you prefer, again, I can't presume how you would go about the conversation) your GM to allow all this to start with. I hope you understand at least that this sounds like munchkinry at it's "finest."
first of all that is kind of rude to assume i am browbeating him, second of all i was just gonna ask and be like "according to kineticists aether is an element, would you let me do aether elemental sorcerer using force?"
Why do some people always assume the worst in others? >:/
the game is mythic and my character concept is pretty suboptimal so i honestly thought the difference in damage (on top of the fact that this character is TWO levels behind in spellcasting compared to a wizard) would be mostly just keeping myself in line with the rest of the party, is this really that bad of an idea? Also,And you would need to browbeat (or coerce if you prefer, again, I can't presume how you would go about the conversation) your GM to allow all this to start with. I hope you understand at least that this sounds like munchkinry at it's "finest."first of all that is kind of rude to assume i am browbeating him, second of all i was just gonna ask and be like "according to kineticists aether is an element, would you let me do aether elemental sorcerer using force?"
Why do some people always assume the worst in others? >:/
I specifically mentioned that I was not assuming the worst. I did however, point out why people might assume it.
How about another idea? Ask your GM if they would be willing to, instead of the normal bloodline spells, craft you a custom "Force" version or replacement?
A caster will ramp up in power very fast. Doubly so for one whose spells can't be resisted.
Oof, I'm not especially interested in occult adventures, but the Kineticist would have me interested if it didn't pay so hard for doing everything it does.
Admittedly, most of the class features are built around cutting the costs so you don't have to pay that much in reality.
Gather power lets you spend you move action to cut that cost in half (it covers 1 burn until level 11). And admittedly, most composite blasts are a bit strong- twice the normal damage (and remember- your basic blast is kinda like shooting out a great sword by level 3)
And then there is infusion specialization, which reduces the other cool abilities. I could, for example, throw an entangling simple blast at will by level 5 when combined with gather power- and by level 8 it is just plain at will.
And by level 11, when gather power charges up and you get more infusion specialization, you can do most things on simple blasts little to no burn. It only gets a problem when you try to get combos together, or get composite blasts or metamagics in there.
Overall...you get plenty of options even if you don't want to use burn. You sometimes have to spend a move action...but I think of it as comparable to other classes have the full attack/standard action attack dichotomy
Grab one level of wizard to pick up the spellslinger, and the rest of your levels in sorcerer. Shoot your magic through your gun to your hearts content.
(I've made this characters it's a lot of fun).
Grab one level of wizard to pick up the spellslinger, and the rest of your levels in sorcerer. Shoot your magic through your gun to your hearts content.
(I've made this characters it's a lot of fun).
that was the plan, the only thing i was worried about was the issue of being 2 levels late to each spell level
that was the plan, the only thing i was worried about was the issue of being 2 levels late to each spell levelGrab one level of wizard to pick up the spellslinger, and the rest of your levels in sorcerer. Shoot your magic through your gun to your hearts content.
(I've made this characters it's a lot of fun).
It isn't that bad. Spells are already super powerful. So getting them a level or two later isn't really a hindrance. If you're playing with other powerful classes, like Druids, clerics, wizards, etc, then any lack of power you have will be shored up by them. If you're playing with weaker characters, like monks, rogues, fighters, etc, then you'll still be above board compared to them and you'll even be a bit less powerful than a standard sorc, so it won't be as bad of a disparity between you and them.
So it really kind of works out no matter how you look at it.
I've also made a gestalt gunslinger/spellslinger that was a lot of fun.
You could even carry a wooden gun around, that you point at people, before blasting them with Magic Missile.
"Kerpow! Motherf**ker!"
It's even better if you actually make those sounds. "Bang bang! I shot you!" (Magic missile).
out of curiousity. Why 2lvs?
spell slinger is 1 dip. Are you dipping gunslinger as well?
For a pure damager, more so a focused damager who doesn't care about DCs. you can typically get away with out too much issue. A bit weaker but I've never had it be a giant issue for me (often I've dipped for things.
like my swashbuckler dip for Dragon Disciple aiming for the Breath of Fire character)
Example time!
Wizard, lv3: 2nd level spells.
Sorcerer, lv3: 1st level spells.
One level behind.
Wizard, lv5: 3rd level spells.
Sorcerer, lv4 with 1 level in something else: 2nd level spells.
Two levels behind.
out of curiousity. Why 2lvs?
spell slinger is 1 dip. Are you dipping gunslinger as well?
For a pure damager, more so a focused damager who doesn't care about DCs. you can typically get away with out too much issue. A bit weaker but I've never had it be a giant issue for me (often I've dipped for things.
like my swashbuckler dip for Dragon Disciple aiming for the Breath of Fire character)
I think because sorcerer is already a spell level behind prepared casters, so you end up two spell levels behind in total.
Honestly, I think the idea is just fine in a mythic game. As a damage dealing sorcerer you are really really going to struggle to keep up with the damage output of mythic martials. This is a high-power game by default.
If your GM is worried, have the damage dice of any spell you convert to force reduced by one step (d8->d6->d4->d2). This more than makes up for the lack of monster resistance.
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It's even better if you actually make those sounds. "Bang bang! I shot you!" (Magic missile).You could even carry a wooden gun around, that you point at people, before blasting them with Magic Missile.
"Kerpow! Motherf**ker!"
Indeed. My buddy does the finger point gun thing, and says "petwoo".
Oh, and even better, the PC looks like Nicolas Cage.
It's even better if you actually make those sounds. "Bang bang! I shot you!" (Magic missile).You could even carry a wooden gun around, that you point at people, before blasting them with Magic Missile.
"Kerpow! Motherf**ker!"
Indeed. My buddy does the finger point gun thing, and says "petwoo".
Oh, and even better, the PC looks like Nicolas Cage.
Can we do a young Nick Cage? Aka a halfling? 'Cause that would be hilarious.