Generic Masterwork Tools


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Silver Crusade 4/5

So I know this has occasionally been a sore topic in the past. What exactly is the current PFS rule on masterwork tools? I tried searching, and didn't find anything even remotely definitive, though I may have just missed something.

I really should get some of these for some of my PCs. The only one I can think of right away is my fighter with Profession: Chef wanting some cookbooks. I'm thinking for 50 gp, it's not just a single book. He's getting the whole Time-Life series. The limitation on using them is that it requires time to look things up, so it would be useful for day job rolls, but useless for impressing people with his culinary knowledge in conversation. That would require going from memory, with no bonus for the books.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

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You can always get a mithril waffle iron. Its non-stick!

Scarab Sages 2/5

Officially? Masterwork tools are RAW and should be allowed. that said a lot of GMs have problemswith/limitations/restrictions on their use and bring those decisions into PFS, despite being house rules. Expect table Variation.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

The last time Michael Brock commented on the topic he basically said "Don't abuse them, otherwise we'll limit them as an option".

Buying a Badge that grants +2 to all Diplomacy rolls? No.
Buying a Badge that grants +2 to Diplomacy when interacting with guards? Sure.

Be sure that you're telling your GM you're using a Masterwork Tool, as well. They may deem it inappropriate during certain circumstances. This often becomes a problem with HeroLab users, I've noticed, who have the bonus "always on".

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

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UE suggests that either the tool should have limited uses, or only apply in limited situations. "Only for Day Jobs" is a nice, specific limitation.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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Ascalaphus wrote:
UE suggests that either the tool should have limited uses, or only apply in limited situations. "Only for Day Jobs" is a nice, specific limitation.

For a specific Craft skill, Masterwork Artisan's Tools are what you need. My witch has a spinning wheel (masterwork artisan's tool for Craft (cloth)) which she keeps at the Grand Lodge.

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

I'll give you a few of the ones I use:

Writ of Introduction from Trade Prince Al-Hakam - Diplomacy when trade is being discussed
Yad - UMD for Scrolls
Wooden Swords - Perform Dance (for dayjob) Dervish Dancer Swashbuckler

I know I have more, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head.

They all have specific roles and are flavored to be something that makes sense with that role.

Silver Crusade 3/5

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Your cookbooks should be fine, Fromper. The only times I've heard of any issues is when players buy a Masterwork Tool, but don't have any idea of what the particular tool is. If you can name the tool and briefly describe how it is used, then you shouldn't have any problems.

For example, one of the VOs stated in another thread that he has a character with a masterwork yad for Use Magic Device when reading scrolls.

A friend of mine has a masterwork speaking trumpet for Perform (oratory).*

* I just remembered that I need to get one of these for one of my characters.

Edit: ninja'd by BartonOliver. I'm really glad, too; your masterwork yad is one of the coolest mwk tools I've heard of.

Liberty's Edge 4/5 5/5

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I make far less use of masterwork tools than perhaps I should.

One of the few exceptions is my gunslinger, who had reason to visit an opera house in Absalom and picked up a set of opera glasses while he was there - a masterwork tool for Perception (visual, long distance only).

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

Yeah, I'm planning to get a yad for my alchemist too. It's brilliant.

Silver Crusade 4/5 ****

In 5 more games, I plan on buying a shieldmarshal of Arkenstar badge (Because I will be a shieldmarshal at that point. )

50 gp, Masterwork tool
+2 to intimidate when ???

I am inclined to "when in Arkenstar" but I am not sure if I am being unduly harsh on myself.

Alternately, "when dealing with gunslingers" (I am a gunhunter after all)

Opinions? (The point is not to have something mechanically awesome. The point is to have a sheriffs badge, and represent it mechanically as well as I can.)

Silver Crusade 3/5

Flint Wheeler wrote:

In 5 more games, I plan on buying a shieldmarshal of Arkenstar badge (Because I will be a shieldmarshal at that point. )

50 gp, Masterwork tool
+2 to intimidate when ???

I am inclined to "when in Arkenstar" but I am not sure if I am being unduly harsh on myself.

Alternately, "when dealing with gunslingers" (I am a gunhunter after all)

Opinions? (The point is not to have something mechanically awesome. The point is to have a sheriffs badge, and represent it mechanically as well as I can.)

Ask your table GM each session and be prepared for it to vary each time.

Some will be more lenient and others will be more restrictive.

Personally, I try to interpret the rules pretty liberally when I'm GMing and pretty conservatively when I'm playing, so at my table I would probably allow it to work against all humanoids (I might be inclined to allow it to only work against non-chaotic humanoids).

Again, your best bet is discussing it with each table GM before the session.

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Darkwood Fishing Pole for Profession (Fisher) Day Job checks.

Box of Taldan Truffles, 10 uses, +2 Diplomacy (if they're eaten).

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

The Fox wrote:

Your cookbooks should be fine, Fromper. The only times I've heard of any issues is when players buy a Masterwork Tool, but don't have any idea of what the particular tool is. If you can name the tool and briefly describe how it is used, then you shouldn't have any problems.

For example, one of the VOs stated in another thread that he has a character with a masterwork yad for Use Magic Device when reading scrolls.

Edit: ninja'd by BartonOliver. I'm really glad, too; your masterwork yad is one of the coolest mwk tools I've heard of.

For extra flavor keep your yad on a weapon cord.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

My musket master had a slide attached to her gun so she could rack it like a shotgun. Didn't actually do anything, but somehow the sound helped intimidate people. If she's holding the gun with both hands and they're only a little familiar with guns.

My inquisitor of Norgorber is decked out in many adornments related to Norgorber on top of his armor. (Yes, this is a bit counter to Norgorber's teachings) If people know anything about Norgorber, he's a bit more intimidating. (Not that the boost from +33 to +35 changes much)

My dervish dancer had some very attractive leggings with excellent movement as her masterwork tool for Perform: Dance.

My most common masterwork tool though is for Stealth. It's a ninja suit / gambesson that muffles the sounds of movement and blends in very well. Also becomes the lightest weight clothing you can wear, as a masterwork tool is only 1 pound vs 2 pounds for the lightest regular clothes (pirate clothes). On the other hand, it uses your clothes slot, so no cold/hot weather gear.

3/5

My Chosen One paladin (with a peacock familiar) has a masterwork peacock feather plumed helm that grants a bonus to intimidate to demoralise. No-one has batted an eye yet.

Dark Archive 1/5

Is that cause they're too busy staring in dumbfound wonder that they're suppose to think it's intimidating? :)

4/5 *

Only a matter of time before you run into a cleric of Arshea or Kalistria with masterwork lingerie.

Dark Archive 1/5

RealAlchemy wrote:
Only a matter of time before you run into a cleric of Arshea or Kalistria with masterwork lingerie.

Uhm... Wouldn't that take your cloths slot? Or not? If so, must get awfully cold in winter wearing them.

Scarab Sages 5/5

Daniel Myhre wrote:
RealAlchemy wrote:
Only a matter of time before you run into a cleric of Arshea or Kalistria with masterwork lingerie.
Uhm... Wouldn't that take your cloths slot? Or not? If so, must get awfully cold in winter wearing them.

[l]endure elements [/i], I never leave home without it.

MW Tool Profession Courtesan...

Shadow Lodge 4/5

I've got a head slot demoralizing mask, a tricorne for profession:riggingfriggerer, a set "thaumic" coils that help with wand activation, and only work with that one wand, and a human hair scourge.

Silver Crusade 3/5 *** Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Asheville

I bought a masterwork Perception tool for my investigator -- a pair of goggles that only help with visual checks. They're also not really usable in any situation that requires decorum. Is that too broad?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

That's probably fine (IMO). Seeing is less than half of the Perception skill. It also includes Hearing, Smelling, Tasting (to identify potions) and Feeling (in the rare case of noticing a burrowing creature surprising you).

But, as with any Masterwork Tool, consult your table GM.

Grand Lodge 5/5 *

Nimrandir wrote:
I bought a masterwork Perception tool for my investigator -- a pair of goggles that only help with visual checks. They're also not really usable in any situation that requires decorum. Is that too broad?

I'd say they are probably ok, as long as you don't have something else in the eye slot, while MW tools are slotless it's hard for me to picture any other way for them to work than to use your eye slot as well, but YMMV. You do meet both a sensibly flavored item and only one aspect of a skill, which are generally my benchmarks.

Also, if you're looking for help in Perception and don't have something in your eye slot, both eyes of the eagle and lenses of detection are relatively cheap for a +5 competence bonus (and oddly despite being eye slots help with all your perceptive senses).

Grand Lodge

I have a rather grotesque mask of Lamashtu, with a speaking hole that slightly alters my voice, for a Masterwork Intimidate Tool.

The Exchange 5/5

A perception tool I use for several PCs is:

"An iron ring with a handle, to concentrate my attention in a selected area, used much like a magnifing glass (thou it is just an iron ring - no glass in it). Only useful for vision based perception checks, occupies the hand when in use, and only works on active skill checks (when I am taking a move action to use it). I refer to it as a Perception Intensifier. I try always to mention when I am using it, normally by saying something like "I have a 25, 27 with my Perception tool". It is after all a circumtance bonus, and all circumstance bonuses must be approved by the judge."

1/5

Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Nimrandir wrote:
I bought a masterwork Perception tool for my investigator -- a pair of goggles that only help with visual checks. They're also not really usable in any situation that requires decorum. Is that too broad?

Tools like that, especially for Perception (but also, Bluff, Diplomacy, etc.) work well for deliberate checks, but can't typically (I would think) be brought to bear for unanticipated checks (to notice the monster tracking you).

(In addition, were I GM, I would ask it be refined further as a distant tool (e.g., telescope) or up an close one (e.g., magnifying glass).)

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

^ good example of table variation.

1/5

Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber
Nefreet wrote:
^ good example of table variation.

Yep.

I've seen the gamut from "everything is acceptable for a near-permanent bonus" to "it takes a significant amount of time for you to use a very specialized situation-specific tool."

Although what I've seen most in PFS is GMs trusting the players and not asking questions (mostly for time and fun reasons), which leads to players taking advantage.

Really, just be reasonable, and like @nosig says, make sure the GM knows what's going on so she/he can be part of the discussion.

Silver Crusade 3/5 *** Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Asheville

I actually haven't played my investigator since I made the purchase, and I plan on making that part of pre-game discussion when it arises.

I plan on getting eyes of the eagle; the tool is a 'bridge item'.

The Exchange 5/5

Nimrandir wrote:

I actually haven't played my investigator since I made the purchase, and I plan on making that part of pre-game discussion when it arises.

I plan on getting eyes of the eagle; the tool is a 'bridge item'.

(bolding mine) Curious about the bolded comment above. Realizing that they are different kinds of bonuses (Competence and Circumstance), why are you dropping the Tool when you get the magic item? wouldn't the bonuses stack?

Grand Lodge 4/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento

Because they both use the same "slot". Though you theoretically could use no magical goggles over magical glasses

The Exchange 5/5

FLite wrote:
Because they both use the same "slot". Though you theoretically could use no magical goggles over magical glasses

ah! thanks! missed that the first time thru. I guess I just mentally swapped in the MW tool I use, which is carried in hand while in use. Sorry!

Silver Crusade 3/5 *** Venture-Captain, North Carolina—Asheville

Grym's not a character I play for levity, so stacking multiple sets of glasses on his face wouldn't really fit. :-)

Liberty's Edge 3/5 ***

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G'Darm have no problem wearing two goggles, but no goggles fit on G'Darm's head. Also, G'Darm sorry about eating last goggles.

Grand Lodge 3/5 *

I have to say, this scarf helps me look even more fabulous when dancing for the crowds!

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Beer goggles +2 to diplomacy. Apply to other party.

The Exchange 5/5

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this is sort of a repost from another (older) thread on Masterwork tools, and the important part that I can see for PFS is that players often forget to tell the judge they are using a masterwork tool. Sometimes they just add it into their skill bonus and forget it themselves.

I personally use a PC sheet written in with a pencil partly so I can note which of my skills have a MW Tool associated with them (or other odd bonuses). That way, when the judge calls for a skill check on a PC that I may run once every six months (if that often), I can glance down and see the skill bonus listed as +5M, and know that the M means I have a Masterwork Tool for that skill. I then can say something like "Take 10 gives me a 15, 17 with my Masterwork Tool."

I have noticed some other players who use MW Tools will just add the bonus into their skill number, and often even forget that it is there. (Does Hero-Lab at it in automatically?) So the question "What's your Stealth" nets a reply of "+10" which might or might not include a bonus for a Masterwork tool (felt slippers to muffle footsteps perhaps?). This is in effect transferring "control" of the circumstance bonus given by a Masterwork Tool from the Judge to the player, or even to the game mechanic if the player forgets how he gets the total bonus he has.

Is this actually a problem? I'm not sure. Do you think it is?

Here's some questions for those players who use MW Tools on their PCs... how do you let a judge know that you are using one? Do you do it every time?

I know I don't, and I try to. But in the heat of the game, when the judge has "the flow" of the story going, it sometimes get's lost in the play. The question "Stealth?" get's a reply of "20" instead of "Take 10 plus 8, plus 2 for my Masterwork Tool of felt slippers gives me a 20" because it is just more "in the flow" - keeping the story going.

So, something I think we should all try to remember able Generic Masterwork tools... you need permission to get the bonus. It's a circumstance bonus, and circumstance bonuses are (and should be) under the control of the Judge, as they are the only person at the table who knows all the circumstances involved. So it is a bonus they should apply - or not, depending on circumstances.

There, just felt that needed to be added to this thread, now I'll go back to lurking...

4/5 5/55/55/5 **** Venture-Lieutenant, Minnesota—Minneapolis

nosig wrote:

I have noticed some other players who use MW Tools will just add the bonus into their skill number, and often even forget that it is there. (Does Hero-Lab at it in automatically?)

It adds the bonus if the tool is equipped. That said, it is very easy to equip an item and forget about it.

I generally equip any items used for skills requiring a tool, since otherwise you are at a -2 Penalty for not having a tool. I also do this for Perform skills using a MW instrument.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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NoSig wrote:
his is sort of a repost from another (older) thread on Masterwork tools, and the important part that I can see for PFS is that players often forget to tell the judge they are using a masterwork tool. Sometimes they just add it into their skill bonus and forget it themselves.

If you don't live on the forums you're probably not aware this is a gray area of the rules. You probably just saw "oh cool, masterwork tool, 50gp hello tumble" and moved on.

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
NoSig wrote:
his is sort of a repost from another (older) thread on Masterwork tools, and the important part that I can see for PFS is that players often forget to tell the judge they are using a masterwork tool. Sometimes they just add it into their skill bonus and forget it themselves.

If you don't live on the forums you're probably not aware this is a gray area of the rules. You probably just saw "oh cool, masterwork tool, 50gp hello tumble" and moved on.

If we (those of us who do "live on the forums") make a habit of saying when we use a MW tool, it will become more common. Players who would normally just "add it in" MIGHT think about it, and those persons who don't say they are using one MIGHT be offered one from another player ("Here, try it with my 'MW Goggles'"). Thus we will influence play by example... (Yeah - a pipe dream I know).

but I have encountered someone who had two MW tools added into a skill - we noticed it when someone offered him a third (which he used) and I asked for a brake-down on his (kind of high) bonus. Humorously, I was actually willing to accept two of them as usable together - as they addressed different aspects of the skill...

and how the heck did I change from nosig to NoSig?

Sczarni 5/5 5/55/5 ***

Growth spurt?

The Exchange 5/5

Nefreet wrote:
Growth spurt?

LOL!

maybe.

but, knowing what it stands for, with capital lettering it should be it should actually be nosIG...

Grand Lodge 4/5

BretI wrote:
nosig wrote:

I have noticed some other players who use MW Tools will just add the bonus into their skill number, and often even forget that it is there. (Does Hero-Lab at it in automatically?)

It adds the bonus if the tool is equipped. That said, it is very easy to equip an item and forget about it.

I generally equip any items used for skills requiring a tool, since otherwise you are at a -2 Penalty for not having a tool. I also do this for Perform skills using a MW instrument.

Actually, in my experience, HL will only add the MWT bonus if it applies to all circumstances, like Thieve's Tools or a healer's kit.

If it only applies for certain uses, it will instead put an asterisk on the skill bonus, and, if you hover over it, will then tell you, "+2 to Survival for not getting lost, wayfinder" or something similar.

5/5 5/55/55/5

nosig wrote:


If we (those of us who do "live on the forums") ma

I generally avoid them unless its a craft/profession tool or a listed item (mw thieves tools or pathfinder chronicles for knowledges)

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Fromper wrote:

So I know this has occasionally been a sore topic in the past. What exactly is the current PFS rule on masterwork tools?

Don't push the corner cases. Not every profession is going to have a generic masterwork "tool" for it. Diplomacy is good example of this.

Silver Crusade 3/5

LazarX wrote:
Not every profession is going to have a generic masterwork "tool" for it. Diplomacy is good example of this.

Flag lapel pin?

Silver Crusade 4/5

The Fox wrote:
LazarX wrote:
Not every profession is going to have a generic masterwork "tool" for it. Diplomacy is good example of this.
Flag lapel pin?

That's not generic. It only gives you a bonus when dealing with citizens of the appropriate country. So it should be fine. :)

The Exchange 5/5

BigNorseWolf wrote:
nosig wrote:


If we (those of us who do "live on the forums") ma
I generally avoid them unless its a craft/profession tool or a listed item (mw thieves tools or pathfinder chronicles for knowledges)

but do you tell the judge when you are using them? It is a Circumstance bonus after all...

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