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Due to the rebuild on MoMS, I was reading on builds posted elsewhere and came across mention that Crane Style always reduces defensive penalities to -2, due to its wording:
Benefit: You take only a –2 penalty on attack rolls for fighting defensively. While using this style and fighting defensively or using the total defense action, you gain an additional +1 dodge bonus to your Armor Class.
1) Is this the rules consensus that the -2 is always on, even when not in Crane Style?
2) Would this also apply to Jabbing Style, which also lacks the wording, 'when in Jabbing Style'?
you have to be in the styles to get any benefit from them.
As a swift action, you can enter the stance employed by the fighting style a style feat embodies. Although you cannot use a style feat before combat begins, the style you are in persists until you spend a swift action to switch to a different combat style.
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Thank you CampinCarl9127, that is an important section.
For comparison, however, Snake Style:
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks, and you can deal piercing damage with your unarmed strikes. While using the Snake Style feat, when an opponent targets you with a melee or ranged attack, you can spend an immediate action to make a Sense Motive check. You can use the result as your AC or touch AC against that attack. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.
By this entry, a character always has +2 to sense motive, even when out of combat (which is important when a stance cannot be activated outside of combat).
No, as I just linked, you cannot use a style feat before combat begins. Nothing in the Snake Style feat says you can go into this style before combat begins. The sense motive bonus is only useful in combat.
See, I always read the bits before " while using this style" as always on abilities, not dependent on being in the style. There is no need for that distinction if you can only use it when in that style anyway.
Consider that it is obvious that they can put "when using this style" at the beginning of the feat if they need to.
and
Do you only gain the extra elemental fist when using the specific style?
Perhaps. I could see it going either way. I know there's a heavily locked debate about it. We can probably expect an official response in a few years.
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Perhaps. I could see it going either way. I know there's a heavily locked debate about it. We can probably expect an official response in a few years.
This would be the first time I've encountered anyone interpreting the text before the "When using" as requiring the style active. All previous times assumed that was a bonus for taking the feat and the "When using" was for when you activated the style feat.
Too late now to go back and point out where they were going wrong...
/tongue in cheek
More seriously, it doesn't look locked so much as undecided.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Link
If you post that to say "see I'm not the only one", I believed you when you said so.
I just haven't, until today, ran into anyone in game or online with your view.
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And the fact that its undecided makes it tough.
Some feats seem like there were aspects available all the time, like crane, boar, or snake which have two parts.
However, style feats like jabbing and pumelling do not use the 'when active/ using' lanuage at all (at least until the second feats in their path). Whether this was intentional or not is what I think needs clarified the most.
Just posting it for reference, not trying to prove anything. After finding it and reading the posts, I'm also undecided.
And the fact that its undecided makes it tough.
Some feats seem like there were aspects available all the time, like crane, boar, or snake which have two parts.
However, style feats like jabbing and pumelling do not use the 'when active/ using' lanuage at all (at least until the second feats in their path). Whether this was intentional or not is what I think needs clarified the most.
At least according to d20pfsrd, none of the Kobold Style feats mention that either:
Kobold Style (Combat, Style) You're able to manipulate foes that are caught off guard. Prerequisite(s): Combat Expertise, Small size or smaller. Benefit(s): You gain a +4 bonus on combat maneuver checks against enemies denied their Dexterity bonus to AC.
Kobold Groundling (Combat, Style) Your small size grants you superiority over grounded foes. Prerequisite(s): Combat Expertise, Kobold Style, Small size or smaller. Benefit(s): Prone creatures are denied their Dexterity bonus to AC against your attacks.
Kobold Flood (Combat, Style) You are an expert at keeping creatures on the ground. Prerequisite(s): Combat Expertise, Kobold Groundling, Kobold Style, Small size or smaller. Benefit(s): You can make a grapple combat maneuver check to mount a prone Medium or Large foe. If you're successful, you move into the target's square and are considered to be on top of the target. For the target to stand, it must succeed at a combat maneuver check to break your grapple.
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If they don't have distinct sections of text before and after a "when using this style" phrase I would assume all benefits are only available while using the style. The general rule is that to have a style feat's benefits you must be in the style - it's the separation of a specific ability, such as +2 sense motive, from the usual "when using this style" condition that implies the separated text is not subject to that condition.
If they don't have distinct sections of text before and after a "when using this style" phrase I would assume all benefits are only available while using the style. The general rule is that to have a style feat's benefits you must be in the style - it's the separation of a specific ability, such as +2 sense motive, from the usual "when using this style" condition that implies the separated text is not subject to that condition.
^^ This is what I wanted to say.
I kept deleting my replies because I couldn't find a way to say it that sounded right.