[PFS] Too many skills, not enough points


Advice

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Looking for some character advice related to skills.

Having recently acquired an Undine boon, I've started creating a new PC, a seagoing explorer the originally hailing from the coasts off The Shackles.

The problem I'm having is that it seems like I never have enough skill points.

Stats after racial adjustment: 8 STR, 16 DEX, 13 CON, 14 INT, 14 WIS, 14 CHA.

Her first level will be Swashbuckler with the Inspired Blade archetype that way I can get Fencing Grace right from the start, which is important if she is going to do any real damage in melee at all.

Her next 10 levels will be in Ranger with the Freebooter archetype.

She'll have 6 skill points at level 1 plus 9 points for each additional level from ranger, including favored class bonus. However, there are more than 9 skills I could see this character having training in, so it seems likely that she will not have enough skill points to keep all her skills maxed.

The skills I would like to keep maxed are:

Disguise
Knowledge (local)
Linguistics

The reason being the PC has the Flesh Chameleon trait and desires the ability to integrate herself into as many human cultures as possible. Her primary reason for joining the Society rather than turning to a life of piracy (though she still has a fondness for pirates) is that she'd rather learn about human cultures peacefully, not by raiding them.

Other skills this PC would likely possess: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (geography), Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Survival.

She is also likely to have at least one rank in Swim to take advantage of the class skill bonus (even if she won't need it most times due to having a swim speed and the aquatic subtype).

I also like having a day job for my PCs, even if I don't earn a lot of money. She is going to collect wigs of various cultural hairstyles and colors. I gave her Craft(wig) as a day job and she will use the funds to "purchase" additional wigs for her collection.

So I guess what I am looking for is, given the list of skills that don't have to be maxed based on motivations and background, how would you classify the skills?

Tier 1 = Max it out or don't even bother. The skill will become fairly useless at high level if you haven't been keeping up.

Tier 2 = Some investment required, but not necessarily all in. A skill you can probably keep with ranks equal to half the character level or so.

Tier 3 = One rank is fine. Just take advantage of the class skill bonus and move on.


I often split skill points out with my PCs, since you're right, there never are enough. The great thing about PFS is that nothing really needs to get maxed out - the CR system and subtiering means you're not facing creatures that require you to have maxed out in most cases. You don't need to beat their CMD by 20 to evade an attack of opportunity with Acrobatics, or beat their Perception by 20 for stealth.

I tend to split my points among my "key" skills equally, which often means some get points one level and the others get points the next. Even having a bonus of (0.5*level+3) is often enough, and it lets you have the versatility to have lots of skills. So, I would classify almost all of your skill list as "Tier 2" in your system, with Diplomacy and Perception as Tier 1.

Diplomacy is used in EVERY scenario. Even if you're just fighting, you had a chacne at the beginning to use it to gather information on the mission, the lcoation, etc. Forewarned is forearmed. (Although, Knowledge (local) can do this too, it can't be used to make friends with people as well.)

Something you might consider is to choose traits that give you a skill as a class skill. Makes a point go a lot farther, especially at early levels.

Also consider being a full-time Pathfinder instead of working in a shop as a day job. You can still use the wig-collecting idea as fluff, but the money isn't usually worth the loose of skill points if they are in short supply.

Sczarni

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If I know I'm getting X skill points per level, then I usually max out X-1 skills. That leftover point each level goes to skills that I'd probably never put more than one point in (like Swim, for you).

But I also plan for a skill to eventually be acquired with an Int-boosting item. Usually, that's UMD. By the time I'd finally be able to afford either an Ioun Stone or Headband (level 10ish) I'll probably have a high enough bonus from ranks to use most devices. Or for characters with a low Cha, but a decent Int, I'll pick a class Knowledge skill.

Other than that advice, only you really know what you want your character to do. We can tell you "Diplomacy+Perception for life", as those are probably the two most used skills, but if your character's not much of a talker then that advice wouldn't work for you.

My only suggestion would be to pick a role that you want your character to be good at. Social butterflies should do Bluff/Diplomacy/Intimidate/Sense Motive. Outdoorsy types should do Acrobatics/Climb/Survival/Swim. Scholarly types should pick a few Knowledge skills and a Craft or Profession.

The cool thing is that you can play a couple roles with that many skill points. Being really good at fewer things will be more useful than being mediocre at lots of things, at least as you reach higher levels.

Scarab Sages

Disguise
Knowledge (local)
Linguistics

Other skills this PC would likely possess: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (geography), Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, and Survival.

For starters I will say I have only been playing PFS for six months so take my advise as you will but..

Day job skills are all tier 3.. one point and forget about..
As for the rest I have never seen Appraise used and Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive in my exp have all been used for the same check.. ie pick one and roll it and all the results are the same more or less so I would advise taking one and just dropping the rest..
That would get you down to about 12 skills..

Climb can be low tier 2 as a climbing kit which is fairly cheap is a +2 bonus.

Scarab Sages

Appraise depends on your faction. If you're Exchange (or possibly Scarab Sages) you'll want a decent Appraise. At most it would be Toer 2, though.

Diplomacy is more valuable than Bluff, Intimidate, or Sense Motive, at least as far as social situations go. True, Bluff can sometimes substitute for Diplomacy, but not for Gather Information rolls, which as GM Lanplighter pointed out is almost a requirement of every scenario. I'd put Diplomacy as Tier 2 at least, Tier 1 for any kind of social character.

Sense Motive shouldn't really substitute for Diplomacy in most situations. It's a useful skill, but useful for different things. But Tier 2 at most unless you've got a Sense Motive based build (Snake Fang).

Grand Lodge

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Heh, you think it's bad now. You should have played 3.5 were Perception was broken up into Search, Spot and Listen and Stealth was broken up into Hide and Move Silently, just to name a few.

I usually spend half to 3 quarters of my skill points maxing out preferred skills while the rest I drop 1 point at a time into class skills until I have at least 1 point in every class skill except profession, craft or perform. Spending 1 point for a +4 bonus to a skill is well worth it even for skills that seldom get used.

Shadow Lodge

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Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Starfinder Superscriber

I go at things a little differently. I use my skill points in the first 2-3 levels to put at least one skill point in every skill I want to have. It's only after that that I start maxing things out. (Especially since my plans for character role can change after playing her a bit.)

But then, tempermentally I prefer to play characters who are moderately good at everything to those who are awesome at one or two things.

Liberty's Edge

I have limited experience playing in PFS (only two characters) but I have found that I like the "Jack of All Trades" approach.

I keep only one or two skills maxed while bring up the others.

But I am still learning about what the skills really do and what skills are more important than others, like Diplomacy.

Dark Archive

in PFS, I always try to have at least one face skill (bluff or diplomacy) and a couple knowledges. if I'm playing a particularly skill starved class like cleric or sorcerer, I'll take the favoured class bonus. I also play a lot of humans, and those extra skill points help a ton.

in a home game, skills don't seem as important. you can spread them around the party. too many times in PFS I've shown up to a table with no relevant skills, and that just sucks.

Grand Lodge

Hunting Lodge from the PFS Field Guide lets you use Survival for Day Job rolls for only 2PP. Might be a cheap way to free up those Craft(Wig) points. I'd at least go Profession(sailor).

Liberty's Edge

pH unbalanced wrote:
It's only after that that I start maxing things out. (Especially since my plans for character role can change after playing her a bit.)

This happens a lot ... after a couple of levels you often find yourself doing things you hadn't planned. Early versatility can lead to later specialization, with flexibility for backup skills and abilities.

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