A small rider passrd level 7


Advice


Ranger or cavalier halfling on a medium mount are great.
Now, passed lvl 7, mount gets large in potentinal.
It mean +8 str... +24 dmg for cavalier...
Mount can fly those lvls.
So...
Keep it medium or, enlarge it?


Well, one of the main advantages of going halfling at those classes would be the fact that you can ride a mount anywhere. In doors, in caves, etc.

So staying medium is in your interest.

As for flying...a bit more argument, but you need to take specialized ranger archetypes for that...but again, there aren't any with fly locked behind a wall locked in with their size (except hippogriff from that one archetype, I suppose- that would be large by default anyway those; also a couple are small creatures, so that size size dependant I guess, but not relevant for the conversation).

There is little reason to grab large, since again- medium lets you fit into places. Sure, extra str for carrying, but not that is it (and most have at least enough to carry a halfling anyway, and they get scaling str buffs as ACs)

Sidenote- Am I misunderstanding something about the math of mounted builds? Where does this +24 damage come from?


not true.
normal ranger can take a roc....
cavalier can use monstrous mount for a griffon.

order of the sword cavalier nets you the str of the mount to charges.
but the math was not right, the +24 is the total bonus not the difference .
+8 str > +4 str *3 on a charge = +12 more damage.
that is added to the already -1 from weapon size, and -3 from -4 str score - a sum that makes a difference .

add that to the bonus damage the mount it self is doing and you get to a lot of difference .

a flyer, with feats, cant enter a city - but can surly make you go to places in a dungeon.


While I'll readily admit to the bit about the sword and monstrous mount, I am not sure what you are talking about with the roc.

Are you referring to the 'bird' option on the standard ranger list?

Cause that is an extremely hard pill to swallow when the animal companion list has a literal 'bird' entry, separate from the roc.

This has of course prompted me to look at some threads about the subjects and...honestly, I couldn't find reference to anything inclusive enough to agree to the idea that rocs are an option for rangers. But I am, again, honestly curious- where are you reading it as such? Is this from some publication I missed?

Anyway, going back to confirmed things- it takes two feats in order to get a flying monstrous mount (since both list that as an option under the 'mastery' section, meaning you need Monstrous Mount Mastery as well). While flying is fantastic, you need to spend so many feats (when you already ahve to focus on mounted feats and combat feats) and you are also trading out the previously mentioned advantage of medium mounts. So it should at least take serious consideration (there is narrow frame...but that just gets you into a room- it still makes movement hard, which hampers the all important charges)


SRD....

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Ro c

Roc

Rocs taken as animal companions by druids or rangers are typically newly hatched birds—a baby roc is the size of a person and ready for flight and hunting within minutes of hatching. Unfortunately for druids seeking animal companions of legendary size, an animal companion roc is limited to Large size—still large enough for a Medium druid or ranger to use the flying beast as a mount.

Starting Statistics

Size Medium; AC +5 natural armor; Speed 20 ft., fly 80 ft.; Attack 2 talons (1d4), bite (1d6); Ability Scores Str 12, Dex 19, Con 9, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 11; Special Qualities low-light vision.

7th-Level Advancement

Size Large; AC +3 natural armor; Attack 2 talons (1d6 plus grab), bite (1d8); Ability Scores Str +8, Dex –2, Con +4.


a small cavalier of the sword, with medium mount, will probably start with STR of 14 > 16 lvl 8.

small halfling #1 lvl 9 :

mount 1 = Gecko, Giant wrote:

>>> best medium mount for movement.
charging with a lance :
(1d6+ str(4)+power attack (9) + mount's str (4) + smite (9) +magic (2) )*3 = 95.4
Gecko attack once, for 2d4 + str (6) + power attack (6) = 16 damage
total = 110.5
no smite drops it to 83.5

upsides :
1) medium size
2) spider climb = charge lanes ceelings.

mount 2 = bear wrote:


(1d6+ str(4)+power attack (9) + mount's str (7) + smite (9) +magic (2) )*3 = 104

bear attack once, 1d6+4+7=14.5
total = 119
no smite drops it to 93
bear has no speical moment but:
1) it's cool!
2) it can full attack for decent damage.

mount 3 = going large : Arsinoitherium wrote:


(1d6+ str(4)+power attack (9) + mount's str (7) + smite (9) +magic (2) )*3 = 104
AC attack once, for (3d8+3d8) + str (10) + power attack (6) = 43 damage
total = 147 damage.
no smite drops it to 126
however - large rhino = VERY hard to chrage.
mount 4 = going large : griffon (feats needed) wrote:


(1d6+ str(4)+power attack (9) + mount's str (4) + smite (9) +magic (2) )*3 = 94
griffon attack thrice pounce
bite : 1d6+str (4) + PA (4) = 11.5
claws + rake = (1d6+4+4)*2 each (rake) = 46
total = 57.5 damage on a flying charge.

total = 151 damage.
you are large but flying.


666bender wrote:

SRD....

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/druid/animal-companions#TOC-Ro c

Roc

Rocs taken as animal companions by druids or rangers are typically newly hatched birds—a baby roc is the size of a person and ready for flight and hunting within minutes of hatching. Unfortunately for druids seeking animal companions of legendary size, an animal companion roc is limited to Large size—still large enough for a Medium druid or ranger to use the flying beast as a mount.

And as I've said, the discussion over the rules ahve not been conclusive on whether that expands the ranger list, or simply acts as fluff or forward thinking (such as predicting their future releases of things like the beastmaster archetype)

I know that might seem shallow to you (and I have little belief people can actually win internet arguments), but if the roc has been an option for a flying animal companion for rangers for so long, it begs the question on why Paizo would bother with such costly options like hippogriffs or griffons. They have released and rereleased (first online, then in an official document) the sabel company marine, and there is the monstrous mount set of feats.

There is little difference between a hippogrif and a large roc. Actually, there is a difference- rocs are far, far superior- less strength and dexterity, no special abilities on their talons, less natural armor (2vs8!), an inability to carry a rider until you get mastery (and even then the speed is cut in half). The last bit isn't there for sable company marines...but it still begs the question- if rangers could just get a perfectly functional flying mount from level 1, why would they ever bother with the hippogriff? Why would Paizo release this option three different times if it did not give you anything unique? Remember- Rocs ahve been around since 2010- some of these hippogrif bits have been released as late as 2014.

And why is a base ranger's options so much stronger than one that takes 2 feats to get?

So, when there is argument over the text, and a large body of following work by the designers shows rangers paying much, much more for a lesser choice while making it out as special... I cannot personally say I agree with this unless I see FAQs, erratas, or dev commentary.


lemeres wrote:
if rangers could just get a perfectly functional flying mount from level 1, why would they ever bother with the hippogriff?

Standard rangers can't take flying mount from level 1, they gain the Hunter Bond at 4th level.


No, Rocs are not legal!

The ranger animal companion list is inclusive, there are no other options as it has not ever been officially expanded, with the exception of archetypes or feats. Your options are:

Quote:
The second option is to form a close bond with an animal companion. A ranger who selects an animal companion can choose from the following list: badger, bird, camel, cat (small), dire rat, dog, horse, pony, snake (viper or constrictor), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the ranger may choose a shark instead. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the ranger on his adventures as appropriate for its kind. A ranger's animal companion shares his favored enemy and favored terrain bonuses.

The flavor text in the Roc description is only flavor text. It does not actually allow you to take a Roc animal companion as a ranger. I believe it's left over flavor text from 3.5.

Remember, the core rule book and bestiary 1 had a lot of copy-pasta from 3.5 books.


ok, assuming keeping it medium - as it is indeed offering a lot of maneuverability.
my Dm is a easy one , allowing for a ranger almost all animals and for a cavalier any non flyer - or a flyer from the "cavalier book" or monstrous mount - that he allow some more things.

what is the "best" lvl 4 \ lvl 7+ to take?
here are a few options, all at lvl 9 . with pro and cons.
(lvl 9 = +6 AC, +3 dex, +3 str, 2 ability pump)
DM also "house roled" if you choose the animal NOT to grow you get it's special abilities, just not the size and ability boost (hence, you get poison, grab, pounce but stay same size, +2str\+2con
you DONT get the + to natural armor. )
lvl 4 is always + to int.
all wear +3 armor (masterwork non magical studded leather)

Deinonychus> DM dont allow.

Ant, Riding:

STR : 16 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 20
con=17
AC = (10+2(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+1 (dex))=22
dmg = 1d6 + 13 + grab (extra attack-5 lvl 9)
PRO:
1) climb speed, with focus on the skill can get you ANYWHERE.
2) REALLY cook looker halfling!

Badger:

STR : 14 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 18
con=17
AC = (10+2(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+4(dex))=25
dmg = 1d6+8 bite, 1d4+8 * 2 claws .
PRO:
1) another nice looker
2) nice AC
3) can burrow (might come handy) and slowly climb (off combat handy) .

Barbed Ram:

STR : 14 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 18
con=13
AC = (10+1(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+4(dex))=24
dmg = gore 1d6 +6(str)+6 (power att) +1 bleed and more on a charge.
(extra attack-5 lvl 9)
PRO :
nothing much...
CON:
lower hp
so-so at best.

Bear:

STR : 19 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 23
con=15
AC = (10+2(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+3(dex))=24
dmg = dmg = 1d6+10 bite, 1d4+10 * 2 claws .
PRO:
1) best medium size STR (bonus to cavalier)
2) decent AC and HP
3) decent self damage
CON:
1) no special ability!

Bristle Boar:

STR : 19 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 23
con=17
AC = (10+6(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+1(dex))=26
dmg = gore 1d8 +15 (extra attack-5 lvl 9) (+spines)
PRO : decent with imp natural weapon
decent "tank"

Cat, Small:

STR : 16 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 20
con=15
AC = (10+1(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+6(dex))=26
dmg = 1d6+9 & (1d3+9)*2 & trip.
PRO :
1) sprint = HUGE charge distance or flee
2) 50'base move is nice
3) poor dmg Vs DR monsters, nice otherwise.

Gecko, Giant:

STR : 15 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 19
con=14
AC = (10+2(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+3(dex))=24
dmg = 2d4+6+6 (another at -5)/
PRO:
1) spider climb
2) a medium size spider climb
3) charge lanes on ceelings with spider climbs.
CON:
low damage
low HP
low AC.
LOW bonus str with order.

Hawk, Riding:

STR : 12 (base) +3 (bonus) +1 lvl9 = 16
con=14
AC =(10+1(base)+6(lvl)+3(armor)+4(dex))=24
dmg : 1d6+7 & (1d4+7)*2
PRO:
if DM allow = a flyer.
CON:
low dmg, str, str etc.


I think getting some spider climbing gear on your pet is all you need.

The biggest issue with pets is "how do I climb stairs and ladders?"

Yes you may not be able to be in the direct center of many combats. But cleaving apart along a flanking side opens you up to flank and the party will appreciate that.

Spider climb!


undersized mount also open a lovely dwarf \ human build on a medium mount.
it's a little... tight, but mechanically a lot better than a halfling (more str, bigger more available weapons.)


thing about not being large is also not drawing all the heat to you.
large size make foe focus on you as you seem like a bigger threat.

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