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Ok, I've been messing around with a few different builds on the forums and on spreadsheets and I'm down to 2 final builds that I'm almost convinced are about the most interesting & fun Reach Bad Touch cleric builds.
This is for PFS and I'm starting at 6th level. I've lined out levels 1-12 but I'll be playing this character is PFS modules/arcs past 12th level though so I've added some consideration for levels beyond 12th.
Cleric 5 / Exalted 7 of Shelyn
Race – Human
Alignment – Neutral Good
Deity – Shelyn (NG)
Traits:
• Fate’s Favored
• Seeker
Domains:
• Love [Charm subdomain] lvl progression after 5th stops due to Exalted
• Heresy or Conversion [Inquisition] lvl progression after 5th stops
Exalted Domain:
• Defense [Protection subdomain]
1st Level Stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 14
Con: 13
Int: 10
Wis: 17 (+2 racial)
Cha: 10
1) Cleric 1: Bab +0, Combat Reflexes (lvl 1), Skill Focus: Know Religion (human)
2) Cleric 2: Bab +1,
3) Cleric 3: Bab +2, Power Attack (lvl 3)
4) Cleric 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis
5) Cleric 5: Bab +3, Deific Obedience (lvl 5)
6) Cleric 6: Bab +4,
7) Cleric 7: Bab +5, Spell Focus: Necromancy (lvl 7)
8) Cleric 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis
9) Cleric 9: Bab +6/+1, Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy (lvl 9)
10) Cleric 10: Bab +7/+2
11) Cleric 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11)
12) Cleric 12: Bab +9/+4, +1 Wis
Advantages:
• Cleric Deity Spells: Charm Person 1st lvl spell, Good Hope 4th lvl spell
• 6th level, Divine Brand (essentially free trait Birthmark)
• 6th level, 1 Knowledge skill becomes Class Skill
• 7th level, +2 sacred bonus on Fort saves and Con checks to stabilize
• 8th level, Boon #1 (unbreakable heart 3/day, calm emotions 2/day, or good hope 1/day)
• 9th level, +2 comp bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, & Perform (oratory)
• 10th level, +1 domain, gain domain benefits equal to Exalted level and domain spells are chooseable for domain spell slot, also all of this domain’s spells become 1/day spell like abilities.
• 11th level, Boon #2 1/day Lillend Azata summon for 1min per HD
• 12th level, Pick 1 “Permanent Protect from Chaos, Evil, or Law”
• 13th level, Pick 1 “Detect Chaos, Evil, or Law”
• 14th level, Boon #3 “Plumed Blade” ability
• 15th level, “Perform Miracle” ability
BAB: +10 at 15th level (Full attack with Divine Power & +3 weapon +21/+21/+16) (If PA: minus -3atk)
Dmg: 1d10 + 12 (If PA: add +9dmg)
AC: Better than Urgathoan Build (Barkskin castable & Love domain’s “Adoration” ability to block 10 individual attacks per day DC 18 Will)
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Cleric 12 of Urgathoa
Race – Human
Alignment - Neutral
Deity – Urgathoa (NE)
Traits:
• Fate’s Favored
• Magical Lineage: Ghoul Touch
Domains:
• Undeath [Death subdomain]
• Blood [War subdomain] OR Conversion or Heresy [Inquisition]
1st Level Stats:
Str: 13
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 11
Wis: 19 (+2 racial)
Cha: 7
1) Cleric 1: Bab +0, Channel Smite (lvl 1), Potion Glutton (human)
2) Cleric 2: Bab +1,
3) Cleric 3: Bab +2, Guided Hand (lvl 3)
4) Cleric 4: Bab +3, +1 Wis
5) Cleric 5: Bab +3, Persistent Spell Metamagic (lvl 5)
6) Cleric 6: Bab +4,
7) Cleric 7: Bab +5, Power Attack (lvl 7)
8) Cleric 8: Bab +6/+1, +1 Wis
9) Cleric 9: Bab +6/+1, Combat Reflexes (lvl 9)
10) Cleric 10: Bab +7/+2
11) Cleric 11: Bab +8/+3, Divine Interference (lvl 11)
12) Cleric 12: Bab +9/+4, +1 Wis
Advantages:
• Cleric Deity Spells: Ghoul Touch 2nd lvl spell
• Potion Glutton: Swift action Enlarge Person or any other Potion available
• Pallid Crystal necklace – Both Cure & Inflict spells heal wearer
• Undead domain’s ability “Death’s Kiss” allows Inflict spells & Negative Channels to heal living people (Roughly 11 uses per day at 12th level, each use affects target for 6 rounds)
• 5th level, Persistent Ghoul Touch lvl 3 spells
• 8th level, Negative Channels no longer hurt cleric, instead he/she is healed for amount of damage that would normally be received.
• Blood domain has some nice battlefield control spells (Wall of Thorns, Blade Barrier) but tempted to swap this domain out for Conversion or Heresy inquisition to become a skilled diplomat and/or liar.
• Conversion or Heresy domain would get full Cleric level bonus to obtain 8th level ability. Exalted of Shelyn’s Cleric domains stop at 5th level since 6th level onward are Exalted levels.
BAB: +11/+6/+1 (Full attack with Divine Power & +3 weapon +28/+28/+23/+18) (If PA: -3atk)
Dmg: 2d4 + 10 (If PA: + 9dmg)
AC: Not as good as Shelyn but decent (somewhere around 28 AC) but protected from Inflict Spells & Negative Energy / Channel damage.
Note: Tempted to NOT take Channel Smite -> Guided Hand but with Potion Glutton I can use a move action to take a potion of Enlarge Person out and swift action drink it. I’m not sure if I can make Attacks of Opportunity with only a held spell charge, plus after discharging it I’d not be threatening. When enlarged 2 AoO’s per round.
Unlike Shelyn build, Can Persistent Ghoul Touch enemy then next turn full round Coup de Grace enemy. Damage to kill enemy would most likely have to come from Channel Smite, or an Inflict or better spell in a Spell Storing Weapon.
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The one thing I cringe about with the stat builds is dumping Charisma below 10 as our local PFS group likes to use Charisma to go off looks and I'm not fond of playing an ugly person lol.
These may not be the "typical" bad touch build ideas seen on the forums without Madness or Protean domains but I'm going for a +1 Spell Storing Weapon (starting at 6th lvl, I can get this now.) and using spells such as Hold Person, Persistent Ghoul Touch, Inflict, Slay Living, Harm, Bestow Curse, Enervation, or etc touch spells through the weapon. Both builds have reach starting at 1st level (Urgathoa has Potion Glutton, swift Enlarge Person).
Could really use some advice and suggestions Magda, Malag, Fruian, and/or anyone else. :)
UPDATE: Adjusted Urgathoa build to 13st and swapped Weapon Finesse out for Power Attack. Damage is much better and Coup de Grace with x4 Scythe would probably now kill even without a dmg spell stored in it.
Shrug, they look good, but the ultimate bad touch cleric probably has Improved Eldritch Heritage Aberrant.
Actually aberrant increases by 5 at level 11th, by 10 at level 13th, and if you get a Robe of Eldritch Heritage you'd get the full extra 15 feet right there, which stacks with size increases and Lunge or Lunging Spell Touch.
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Actually aberrant increases by 5 at level 11th, by 10 at level 13th, and if you get a Robe of Eldritch Heritage you'd get the full extra 15 feet right there, which stacks with size increases and Lunge or Lunging Spell Touch.
Interesting, but I don't think I could fit this into either of my builds without losing Power Attack, dumping Int completely, or something else suffering severely. Also, for either I'd have a really difficult time to fit 3 feats in for the +15ft non-threatening reach. The Shelyn build requires 2 feats to qualify for Exalted to get the Permanent Protection from Evil & all spells from 1 domain (Defense) as 1/day spell like abilities.
Why not play the Shelyn build as a half-elf instead of human? They get skill focus as a bonus feat, and a few other nice perks.
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Is your goal to be THE ultimate bad touch or one that is great with your style(s) presented? I'm not sure to discuss what you have or debate the "best".
Well, I'm asking which one seems better and if there's any minor changes that could help one or both of the builds. I'm obviously trying to employ reach tactics here & a spell storing weapon to deliver a debilitating or damaging spell to my opponent. I could focus on "touch" tactics but "reach" tactics are a better use of action economy and touching would put me in a spot to be full attacked possibly.
Secret Wizard suggested an option to make reach more viable but I think it'd end up turning more into a build geared towards channeling with a required 15 charisma (probably 7str, 14dex, 14con, 10int, 17wis, 15cha). It would cost 3 feats and wouldn't start being helpful till 11th level when Improved Eldritch Heritage is available to pick.
Really just wanting to know what people think of the two builds I listed and what they'd personally change / adjust to make it better.
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Just realized for the Shelyn build that I could take "Focused Study" which would later give me 2 free Skill Focuses.
Anyone care to add some suggestions? Should I just skip the Channel Smite -> Guided Hand route for having a high atk bonus and threatening 10ft & dealing damage to instead just dump Str, increase Dex, and take Weapon Finesse to touch vs AC?
Even though I like the Urgathoa build with Ghoul Touch and protection from Negative Energy, I'm thinking the Shelyn build offers a lot more defense and in return being a better option. Should I dump str on the Shelyn build or change any of the feats?
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To be honest the urgothan build hurts itself going with the scythe instead of just touch attacks and you don't get much out of the weapon to make it that interesting. Shelyn build is nice and more appealing with the glaive and a few other tricks it gets out of the deity. I'd look into adding some channeling if it fits te concept well enough and would allow you to justify a higher charisma score.
For the Urgathoa build, the thought was to store a Persistent Ghoul Touch into the Spell-Storing Scythe earlier in the day. Combat breaks out, 1st round retrieve Enlarge Potion and swift drink with Potion Glutton. Enemy approaches and provokes AoO, I hit and release spell on them, next round Coup de Grace. That was mainly the idea with the build, x4 crit weapon & cdg auto-crits.
What 20pt stat array would you suggest for the Shelyn build?
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Eh thought I had something but I forgot how few feats you have to play around with. What I was going to suggest falls into the old cleric problem of having a lot of things you can do but not a lot you can do together. Urgothan build is fine then but you have a 2-3 turn set up for single kills which ruins the concept atleast for me. I'm assuming the main deal of the build is to use reach cleric tactics and pre cast touch spells into your scythe and deliver them for free using an attack of opportunity?
Yeah, start of day cast a touch spell into Scythe, after releasing the spell walk away and cast another spell into Scythe and let enemy provoke again by walking back into melee range. For Urgathoan build 1st round is standard: cast Divine Favor, move: draw Enlarge Person potion, swift: drink potion (Potion Glutton feat). 1 round should be enough prep time.
Shelyn build is definitely 75% more geared towards surviving though. Deflection subdomain gives Barkskin and few other useful spells. Love subdomain gives around 10 "Will save or block 1 attack as Sanctuary" uses. Plus it has the summon 1 lillend azata for mins per HD and Perma Protection from Evil at later levels.
If I took Channel Smite and Guided Hand on the Shelyn build I'd increase my attack bonus by +5....but that's 2 feats...maybe 2 feats isn't a bad price for +5atk though?
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So at the moment, the best stats I can think of, for the Shelyn build, so far are 14str, 12dex, 12con, 12int, 19wis, 12cha. Between 13 and 14str is +2dmg also between 17 and 19wis is +1will save, +1atk, +1 4th lvl spell later on, +1social skills (conversion or heresy inquisition) & +1wis based skills.
I don't really want to dump Charisma below 10 and same with Int due to Exalted requirements and wanting to put some points in social skills to be a bit versatile. Feel kind of forced to get a +2dex/+2con belt to offset the low dex and con as soon as possible though.
Anyone have a better stat suggestion?
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So at the moment, the best stats I can think of, for the Shelyn build, so far are 14str, 12dex, 12con, 12int, 19wis, 12cha. Between 13 and 14str is +2dmg also between 17 and 19wis is +1will save, +1atk, +1 4th lvl spell later on, +1social skills (conversion or heresy inquisition) & +1wis based skills.
I don't really want to dump Charisma below 10 and same with Int due to Exalted requirements and wanting to put some points in social skills to be a bit versatile. Feel kind of forced to get a +2dex/+2con belt to offset the low dex and con as soon as possible though.
Anyone have a better stat suggestion?
Anyone able to advise on better stats than above?