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Ok, so I took a look at the Fast Healer Feat, which reads:
"Prerequisites: Con 13, Diehard, Endurance.
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1)."
Now...if an Inquisitor used the Healing Judgement with it...
"Healing: The inquisitor is surrounded by a healing light, gaining fast healing 1. This causes the inquisitor to heal 1 point of damage each round as long as the inquisitor is alive and the judgment lasts. The amount of healing increases by 1 point for every three inquisitor levels she possesses."
Would that mean he would heal half his Con mod in addition to his fast healing each round??
The answer is yes, but the intent is no. It's poorly worded.
==Aelryinth
If the intent was just cure spells, heal and Channel Energy, it would've been written that way. Healing Judgement is still healing from magic.
The way the feat is worded is to allow for a few bonus hit points healed per spell or instance.
Resting gets you one group of hit points.
Magical healing spells get you one burst of hit points.
Channel Energy and Lay on Hands get you one burst of hit points.
Fast Healing gets you a LOT of bursts of hit points, and so the effect is unduly magnified JUST by the way the healing is administered.
Ergo, if you just granted the bonus in the first round of Fast healing, you'd be in the spirit of the feat. There is no logical reason that being under fast healing is so much better then getting a Cure spell just because you want to automatically treat each round as a new instance.
i.e. it's badly written., and thus an exploitable loophole.
==Aelryinth
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To be sure, I don't call it a 'game breaker'. Unless you're giving it to a monster with constant Fast Healing, or using something broken like the Boots of Earth, it's just giving you more 'free healing'.
Given you have to take Die Hand and Endurance to get this benefit, it's a good pay off. If all fast healing was of the temporary few rounds that Judgements were, there would likely be no problem.
But yeah, a ranger with this feat (pre reqs for free!) and the Boots effectively never needs any healing, and will be getting 3-6 hp/rd back for a good chunk of his career. Not just Fast healing, but FAST healing!
==Aelryinth
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You can kill your AC and get Fast Healing at level 1... I dont see tons of people dipping Verminous Hunter.. Why would you make something a character has to invest 3 feats and a high CON in to unavailable when people can instead flat out get rid of the threat/prevent the damage in multiple ways. All it really does is free up some coin and make you NOT the 'healer's b#%&*. Assuming you have time.
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It's not resting.
It's not magical per the EX fast healing description in the bestiary. "Acts like natural healing" The clunky wording of fast healer seems intentional to specifically rule out this combination.
Otherwise, a 1 level dip into vermin Hunter would give 24/7 fast healing 3 or 4 after killing your poor worm.
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Inquistor Fast healing IS magical.. it acts like the EX counterpart but is not so itself
Specific > General.
Just because something is good does not mean it is not intended. That is being disingenuous. Power Attack is specifically meant to be better with Two handed weapons which tend to do the most damage/have good options. does that mean because TWF or using a one handed weapon is less good mean that it suddenly shouldnt work?
So if magic provides Fast Healing it can't be dispelled because it's not magical healing?
Infernal Healing definitely is too powerful then.
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So you are saying Judgement.. a SU ability somehow gives no magical healing.. magically.. do you realize how hypocritical that sounds? I've heard of using circular logic but that is another level of such. Is Judgement magical? Yes/No? Is it healing you? Yes/No? Then it works. Otherwise by you definition Judgement of healing can't be stopped by AMF and the various other Fast healing spells extraordinarily change your body system.
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So you are saying Judgement.. a SU ability somehow gives no magical healing.. magically.. do you realize how hypocritical that sounds? I've heard of using circular logic but that is another level of such. Is Judgement magical? Yes/No? Is it healing you? Yes/No? Then it works. Otherwise by you definition Judgement of healing can't be stopped by AMF and the various other Fast healing spells extraordinarily change your body system.
Is an Inquisitor Judgement magical? Yes.
Is it healing you? No.
It grants fast healing, which is not in an of itself magical healing. This is in no way hypocritical.
If I summon a sword to my hand magically, is it a magic sword? The answer is, we don't know. Was it a magic sword prior to being called? The fast healing effect itself is not magical under the effects description (Specific > General). But to play your game with the AMF example, it would cancel the magical effect that provides augmented non-magical healing so it would end.
You seem very invested in your interpretation so if my interpretation of RAW vexes you, I apologize. This synergy wouldn't be in effect at my table. You have a differing opinion and that's okay, but understand table variation is a strong possibility.
Fast Healing: A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature’s entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately.
Since a search for similar threads regarding Fast Healer and Fast Healing have lead to the same conclusions without consensus or an FAQ since Oct 2010, I doubt very much we will accomplish anything other than talking past one another.
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You need to quantify resting, not normal healing as that is the activator for the feat. Resting is only quantified in the CRB under the heal skill. 2 hp/level per 8 hours rest.
Note: it it not 1 hp/level per 4 hours. It is not .25 hp/level per hour. I won't break out a calculator to find the rate per round even though they maintain the same ratio. You get healed for resting after 8 hours and the bonus from the feat kicks in.
Infernal Healing is magical healing:
School conjuration (healing) [evil]
It is a healing spell, it says so right in the description. By the rules it is just as much magical healing as Cure Light Wounds.
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The judgement grants fast healing 1 through magical means. It is not magical healing in and of itself which is needed for the fast healer feat to function under RAW. Nor is it healing under the resting rules.
To me it is both RAW and RAI.
Read THIS. It's mostly related.
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It is a healing spell, it says so right in the description. By the rules it is just as much magical healing as Cure Light Wounds.
I envision somewhere, Sarenrae is beating her head against the wall.
Cure Light Wounds: "When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +5)". (Magical healing clearly)
Infernal Healing: "You anoint a wounded creature with devil’s blood or unholy water, giving it fast healing 1." (non magical healing clearly since fast healing is non magical by definition) It doesn't directly heal, it provides a effect. Note: this results in other things happening as it allows rapid healing by both undead and living targets.
Other corner cases become wonky if you treat IH as magical, as in claudekennilol's link above. Note: The non-magical effect provided by Infernal healing is actually advantageous in this case as it wouldn't be opposed by the Devil's Infernal Wound ability.
Just use it as usual and apply the bonuses from a feat (in this case fast healer) only once per effect.
That way only the first tick of fast healing is buffed and there is no problem with the power level. For natural fast healing just add the effect once after resting/once per day. Healing judgement: First time after activation; worm animal focus: Once after activation, by switching the focus 1/r you can get the bonus every other turn but you invest every round's swift action.
It's the same as with damage spells. If you have any bonus damage added to spells it is added once per spell not every time the spell deals damage.
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Just use it as usual and apply the bonuses from a feat (in this case fast healer) only once per effect.
That way only the first tick of fast healing is buffed and there is no problem with the power level. For natural fast healing just add the effect once after resting/once per day. Healing judgement: First time after activation; worm animal focus: Once after activation, by switching the focus 1/r you can get the bonus every other turn but you invest every round's swift action.It's the same as with damage spells. If you have any bonus damage added to spells it is added once per spell not every time the spell deals damage.
If the only concern is power level, your workaround is perfectly reasonable. However, it isn't RAW, and I believe it isn't RAI since the wording for Fast Healer is worded specifically to apply to everything I can think of except Fast Healing.
Just use it as usual and apply the bonuses from a feat (in this case fast healer) only once per effect.
That way only the first tick of fast healing is buffed and there is no problem with the power level. For natural fast healing just add the effect once after resting/once per day. Healing judgement: First time after activation; worm animal focus: Once after activation, by switching the focus 1/r you can get the bonus every other turn but you invest every round's swift action.It's the same as with damage spells. If you have any bonus damage added to spells it is added once per spell not every time the spell deals damage.
That is the exact way such things were handled in 3.5.
If the only concern is power level, your workaround is perfectly reasonable. However, it isn't RAW, and I believe it isn't RAI since the wording for Fast Healer is worded specifically to apply to everything I can think of except Fast Healing.Just use it as usual and apply the bonuses from a feat (in this case fast healer) only once per effect.
That way only the first tick of fast healing is buffed and there is no problem with the power level. For natural fast healing just add the effect once after resting/once per day. Healing judgement: First time after activation; worm animal focus: Once after activation, by switching the focus 1/r you can get the bonus every other turn but you invest every round's swift action.It's the same as with damage spells. If you have any bonus damage added to spells it is added once per spell not every time the spell deals damage.
It is no less RAW than saying a Conjuration (healing) spell is not magical healing.
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fast healing can be either non-magical or magical. Judgement is a supernatural ability (magical) so it seems like that the fast healing granted by a judgement is magical.
At first glace it would certainly seem that way, but lets define our terms.
Even in the eidolon example, it explicitly states Fast Healing acts like normal healing. So if an eidolon had the Fast Healer feat, it still wouldn't stack with it. Eidolon Fast Healing evolution does have SU origins, meaning:
a) magical in origin, but
b) can't be dispelled, and
c) won't work within anti-magic.
The magical effect is the same: It provides Fast Healing 1, which is a well-defined effect.
Pick any other effect: lets say Invisibility. If you cast invisibility on yourself you gain that set of modifiers. It doesn't matter if the effect is Spell, SLA, SU, or EX in origin. The effect is the same.
The only difference is what happens in anti-magic. In the invisibility example it goes away, unless you are an Invisible Stalker (EX ability). However, the effect is the same effect regardless of origin. Invisibility is an effect. Fast Healing is an effect.
So, in summary, even SU granted effects of Fast Healing give augmented normal healing and therefore not considered magical healing required to activate the Fast Healer feat.
Both sides have given reasoned arguments, but I'm looking for any outlying similar threads. Assuming it is considered magical healing, are there any other examples of effects that change based on the origin of the effect?
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I looked into this a long time ago and came to the conclusion that fast healing (in general) isn't 'magical healing'. Being granted fast healing as part of magic still doesn't make it 'magic healing'.
However, concerning 'resting' I'm torn between 'Fast Healer' only applying to sleep rest healing or any healing that comes from resting (which fast healing apparently is).
"Fast Healer
You benefit greatly from your healing, be it from spells or natural healing.
Prerequisites: Con 13, Diehard, Endurance.
Benefit: When you regain hit points by resting or through magical healing, you recover additional hit points equal to half your Constitution modifier (minimum +1)."
"Fast Healer, Feat"
"Fast Healing (Ex) A creature with the fast healing special quality regains hit points at an exceptional rate, usually 1 or more hit points per round, as given in the creature's entry. Except where noted here, fast healing is just like natural healing. Fast healing does not restore hit points lost from starvation, thirst, or suffocation, nor does it allow a creature to regrow lost body parts. Unless otherwise stated, it does not allow lost body parts to be reattached. Fast healing continues to function (even at negative hit points) until a creature dies, at which point the effects of fast healing end immediately."
"Fast Healing, source"
"Healing
After taking damage, you can recover hit points through natural healing or through magical healing. In any case, you can't regain hit points past your full normal hit point total.
Natural Healing: With a full night's rest (8 hours of sleep or more), you recover 1 hit point per character level. Any significant interruption during your rest prevents you from healing that night.
If you undergo complete bed rest for an entire day and night, you recover twice your character level in hit points.
Magical Healing: Various abilities and spells can restore hit points."
"Natural Healing, source"
This was an issue I caught when writing my artiforged class, which has a resource pool that regenerates every time the character heals. I avoided the problem by saying the character can only benefit once per casting or use of the ability that healed them. And for better measure, it only works on spell or spell-like abilities with a spell level above 0.
This might have been the intent behind this feat.