Graveyard of Souls vs other outer plane destinations for atheist souls


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

Scarab Sages

So after reading Death's Heretic and The Redemption Engine, I am wondering where do "Atheists" (as mentioned in other threads more like anti-theists or dystheists) go after death, especially if they are particularly strong in one of the four alignments.

Well also, is the Graveyard of Souls (where atheists go) a place where the souls are "asleep" and unaware?

Secondly, what about particularly evil people? Do they "escape" punishment by going to the Graveyard instead of one of the outer planes?

I suppose good souls would not want the "Reward" of serving in an outer plane. Though after reading the Redemption Engine and it's talk of the Angels really serving the plane and being extensions of the plane rather than the gods, I am less sure merely sleeping for eternity is much of a reward for being good.

I guess what I'm asking, how much of Pharasma's judgement of souls based on their temperment override the fact they were an atheist, and also how much does it override what god they worshipped while alive? (or do only clerics and the like get to automatically go to their god's plane instead of the plane of their own alignment, if so?)

Liberty's Edge

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It's been clarified in a couple of places that this isn't quite how things work. How things work is as follows:

Pharasma judges all souls based on how well they lived up to the ideals they professed to support, sending them to 'good' places if they were consistent, and 'bad' places if they were not. In a sense hypocrisy becomes the greatest sin.

Note that this doesn't punish liars, such as a priest of Norgorber impersonating one of Abadar, or people who sincerely convert from one belief system to another, just those who fall short of the ideals they actually supported.

Then, where you go depends on your personal philosophy/religion. Atheists who do not keep to their own standards go to the Graveyard of Souls. More consistent/virtuous atheists get to go of and become wandering philosopher-spirits and witness all the wonders of the multiverse. Salim (probably rightly) assumes he will suffer the former fate for obvious reasons.

Likewise, devout worshipers of Shelyn who are within one step of her alignment go to her realm and are well treated, whereas a CE artist and serial killer who killed in her name would go to the Abyss, and not the nice part.

Meanwhile, a devoted cultist of Urgathoa who follow her teachings well will likewise go to her realm, and likely become one of the Outsiders or other beings that serve her...this might not be a happy time, but it's a reward in a sense, while a LN devotee who only payed lip service to Urgathoa is much more likely to get eaten by Daemons or trapped in some eternal bit of meaningless waiting in line over in Axis. Either way, not the fun kind of afterlife.


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Though a distheist may reject Pharasma's judgment, in which case they go the Graveyard of Souls instead of whatever their compatible place is.

The Boneyard can BE the compatible place, but it has a specific region for souls whose stay is meant to be a reward rather than a quarantine (assuming they don't choose to reincarnate instead).

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

In general atheists don't believe in souls... so wouldn't their soul just fade to dust?


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Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This was covered in Pyramid of the Sky Pharaoh. I don't think it's allowed to quote the relevant section, but most atheists and similar sorts (such as alatrists) do go on to their usual destination. Going to an outer plane does not automatically mean serving there in general, though this is probably less true of lawful planes...I doubt many who go to Hell avoid being conscripted or worse, though it is a big plane. And remember, going to an evil plane is not supposed to inherently be punishment, just where you belong. You may be punished by being there, but Pharasma isn't trying to punish people, just sort them out.

That said, there are a few people who loathe and despise the entire system and refuse to go on, refuse to participate in this great cosmic cycle. And they're allowed. They don't become petitioners, and are instead escorted to the Graveyard of Souls where they can forget and be forgotten. Over the ages, they lose their memories, personality, etc., until they dissipate into stale, stagnant quintessence, forever bereft from the cycle of the River of Souls...and the spire grows a little bigger.

Scarab Sages

I vote they go to the Neitherworld of Beetlejuice.


Dennis Baker wrote:
In general atheists don't believe in souls... so wouldn't their soul just fade to dust?

We're not talking real-world atheists -- who do not universally disbelieve in souls, anyway -- but atheists in the pathfinder campaign setting, who are generally people who decline to worship a deity, while acknowledging the existence of the beings others worship as gods. In any case, in the setting, souls are verifiably real things, as physically real as an electric field. Using magic and/or technology, one can study them, manipulate them, capture them, and possibly even create them.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

As a rule, very few atheists believe in an afterlife.

Atheism is pretty goofy in game... sort of like having Christianity in Golarion. One group of people believe in something that breaks a bunch of in game things that are "verifiably real".


I'd change their destination, they go to the negative energy plane

Scarab Sages

Thanks for the information. I tried to see which of the "short fiction" books contained the reprints of the Mummy's Mask fiction sections but it looks like it hasn't come out yet.


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It's not from the AP fiction; the article is "The River of Souls."


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Dennis Baker wrote:


As a rule, very few atheists believe in an afterlife.

Atheism is pretty goofy in game... sort of like having Christianity in Golarion. One group of people believe in something that breaks a bunch of in game things that are "verifiably real".

Again, we're not talking about real-world atheists, for whom your statement is generally true. In the campaign setting, atheists do not generally disbelieve in souls or the afterlife. Many people have suggested that in-setting atheism might be better described as misotheism or dystheism, because it involves antipathy, or at least apathy, towards the beings worshiped as gods by most mortals. Many of them regard these beings as simply very powerful outsiders, not worthy of worship.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16, Contributor

Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Dennis Baker wrote:


As a rule, very few atheists believe in an afterlife.

Atheism is pretty goofy in game... sort of like having Christianity in Golarion. One group of people believe in something that breaks a bunch of in game things that are "verifiably real".

Again, we're not talking about real-world atheists, for whom your statement is generally true. In the campaign setting, atheists do not generally disbelieve in souls or the afterlife. Many people have suggested that in-setting atheism might be better described as misotheism or dystheism, because it involves antipathy, or at least apathy, towards the beings worshiped as gods by most mortals. Many of them regard these beings as simply very powerful outsiders, not worthy of worship.

That's exactly my point. In game atheism has little in common with the logic and skepticism which are the cornerstones of real world atheism. Which is weird.


Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dennis Baker wrote:
Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:
Dennis Baker wrote:


As a rule, very few atheists believe in an afterlife.

Atheism is pretty goofy in game... sort of like having Christianity in Golarion. One group of people believe in something that breaks a bunch of in game things that are "verifiably real".

Again, we're not talking about real-world atheists, for whom your statement is generally true. In the campaign setting, atheists do not generally disbelieve in souls or the afterlife. Many people have suggested that in-setting atheism might be better described as misotheism or dystheism, because it involves antipathy, or at least apathy, towards the beings worshiped as gods by most mortals. Many of them regard these beings as simply very powerful outsiders, not worthy of worship.
That's exactly my point. In game atheism has little in common with the logic and skepticism which are the cornerstones of real world atheism. Which is weird.

Doesn't that rather depend on the type of atheism in question? There have been a number of different brands of atheism and evolution in regards to what the term entails; for a time, Greeks considered Christian atheists because they didn't believe in the Greek gods, as an example. Even today, I believe there's still a fairly broad spectrum of atheistic beliefs. Personally, I think the form of atheism most likely to exist in fantasy settings where deities exist would likely be practical atheism, or apatheism as it's also called.


I think that logic and skepticism have different results when you're in a universe where souls, magic, an afterlife, other realms of existence, and god-like beings verifiably exist. The principles remain the same, though.

Some Golarion atheists are skepical about, not the existence of 'Gods' but whether those verifiably-existant beings are worthy of the worship of mortals. (Others are atheist for other reasons than skepticism -- just like in the real world.)

Sovereign Court

Do the gods really care if people worship them? Or is this how finite, unimaginative mortals picture them because they have limited understanding?

How about this:

Good-aligned nonworshippers basically go to the same sort of places other good- aligned people go. The gods reward good actions, not worship.

The situation is different with evil gods.

Some evil gods have specific goals rather than "evil". So if you were a serial killer who did not worship any gods, it may well be that there is simply no reason for any evil god to provide you with any sort of reward. (Even Chaotic Evil gods generally see the value of rewards.)

So this CE serial killer will end up in the Abyss without any sort of patron, however nasty - and will be fair game for any passing demon that is feeling peckish.

On the other hand, some evil gods like evil and destruction for its own sake, and they might find use for the CE serial killer's soul in furthering evil - whatever the serial killer might think of the gods.

Things could get highly variable with the neutral non-worshippers.


Is it still canon that Atheist souls are used to feed the moon good hovering over the bone yard so that he won't crash into it and usher in the apocalypse?


Good question. Depending on the source Pharasma actively feeds these souls to Groetus for unknown reasons which could imply that she doesn't want them in her boneyard.


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Mavrickindigo wrote:
Is it still canon that Atheist souls are used to feed the moon good hovering over the bone yard so that he won't crash into it and usher in the apocalypse?

One option to "resolve" canonical differences like this, is Pharasma simply waiting until they're "done" dispersing, and then feeding the non-person remnants to the moon. Kind of a "recycling" theme. It would make her not evil (the soul-stuff doesn't do much), and would help stave off the world-ending moon for a bit longer.

But that's not canon, just thinking.


Some gods care about their worshippers, some don't. Nearly all of the Good gods do. A lot of the CN gods don't, but grant spells through a sort of reflexive expression of the divine power they possess. Many of the Evil gods pretend to, but really don't. Many of the Evil gods do, but not in the way you'd think. (Lamashtu really really cares about her worshippers... becoming incubators for her monsters.)

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