[PFS] Can I use the Samurai Challenge and then Rage?


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

Hello everyone,

I was thinking about multiclassing into Bloodrager for the class skills and rage ability and noticed that the Samurai class' Challenge ability and the Bloodrage ability might conflict. Spoiled below is the Samurai Challenge and the Bloodrage ability. The barbarian's regular rage ability might also apply as well.

My current stats:
Tiefling Samurai 4 (Going to 5th soon)
STR: 18
DEX: 17
CON: 12
INT: 14
WIS: 10
CHA: 5
Main weapon: Adamantine Nodachi +1
Feats chosen: Power Attack and Furious Focus.

Samurai Challenge:
Challenge (Ex): Once per day, a samurai can challenge a foe to combat. As a swift action, the samurai chooses one target within sight to challenge. The samurai's melee attacks deal extra damage when made against the target of his challenge. This extra damage is equal to the samurai's level. The samurai can use this ability once per day at 1st level, plus one additional time per day for every three levels beyond 1st, to a maximum of seven times per day at 19th level.

Challenging a foe requires much of the samurai's concentration. The samurai takes a –2 penalty to his Armor Class, except against attacks made by the target of his challenge.

The challenge remains in effect until the target is dead or unconscious, or until the combat ends. Each samurai's challenge also includes another effect, which is listed in the section describing the samurai's order.

Bloodrage:
A bloodrager can enter a bloodrage as a free action. While in a bloodrage, a bloodrager gains a +4 morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the bloodrager 2 hit points per Hit Die, but these disappear when the bloodrage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While bloodraging, a bloodrager cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

What I'm wondering is that if I issue a Samurai Challenge on a target, and then go into a Bloodrage, would my bonus to damage from the Samurai Challenge disappear due to the Bloodrage? If it doesn't work, then should I even bother multiclassing? I originally intended to make this character into a crit-fisher with either the Keen enchantment or Improved Critical.


Why shouldn't you be able to use them together? Challenge is not a spell, doesn't require concentration, and isn't a skill using one of the forbidden stats.


Challenging a foe requires much of the samurai's concentration.

This line is why he's asking.


Abilities which requires concentration are typically turned off when the concentration stops. This is not true for the samurai; the challenge doesn't turn off until end of combat or until the opponent is dead or unconscious. So removing the concentration of the samurai doesn't effect the challenge.

Since the rage ability says that you cannot use an ability which requires concentration, I would argue that it means you cannot start a challenge while raging, but any challenge aready in effect will not stop due to the rage.

Due to the poor wording of the challenge ability, I would expect table variation.


I agree, I think you're in the clear. Interesting mix of classes.


Yeah, the "concentration" in the challenge ability is flavor text to justify the AC loss while "concentration" in the rage ability refers to the term as defined in the game; for example, a Bloodrager that has Detect Magic as a spell-like ability wouldn't be able to use it in a bloodrage because Detect Magic requires concentration to keep the duration up.

Grand Lodge

Thank you everyone! Yeah that clears up the issues I had regarding this then. I just wanted to multiclass into something that can jack up my damage output while also giving me a spell list and extra bonus class skills without going full-caster. I've considered other options such as the Magus class but it didn't seem to great as a 1 level dip when it came to providing extra melee power while just adding a little bit of magical abilities.

So yeah, thanks everyone!

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / [PFS] Can I use the Samurai Challenge and then Rage? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.