Cleric Boss Fight


Advice


Tell me if this is an appropriate boss encounter for a level 3 party of six characters to face in a fight:

If you are one of my players, do NOT read this:

There's a cleric, medium-sized, worshiping a deity that gives him the Glory domain. He's a lawful neutral 5th level Theologian with Spell Specialization and 18 Wisdom. His effective Caster Level when casting Searing Light, his go-to spell, is 9. Against non-undead characters this means he deals 4d8 damage with no saving throw (but he has to succeed on a ranged touch attack). His AB with that spell's touch attack is +6 (+3 BAB, +3 DEX - 14 base +2 from a belt). The fellow is pretty durable with 22 AC and 38 HP.

This fellow has a 3rd level barbarian with him focusing on beating stuff up in melee wielding a big ol' flail. He also has a handful of ordinary kobolds equipped with basic weapons and armor.

Spells memorized:

- 1st level - 2xShield of Faith, 1xBless, 1xProtection from Evil
- 2nd level - 1xBurst of Radiance*, 1xCure Moderate Wounds, 1xSound Burst**
- 3rd level - 2xSearing Light***

*DC 16 Reflex Save
**DC 16 Fortitude Save
***Searing Light has Disruptive applied to it. Concentration check DC = 18 + the level of the spell the player is casting. (10 base + 3rd level spell + 4 WIS modifier + 1 spell focus [Evocation].)

Buffs that may be up before the fight begins:

Shield of Faith. The character should have enough forewarning to get this minute per level spell up in time. He'd also toss it on his barbarian friend.

Bless. Same reasoning.

He would probably toss up Protection from Evil on his partner as well, but it won't have any effect since the party isn't evil. So, that's a wasted spell slot.

The tactics in this scene (assuming no surprise round):

Round 1

Cleric will open with Burst of Radiance. This won't do damage because the party is non-evil, but it may blind or dazzle them. This will presumably hit at least 3 members of the party.

The barbarian will rage and start beating things in the head because that's what he does. The kobolds will start swarming the party, but two will linger back and ready actions to move in front of anyone that charges or move towards the cleric.

Round 2

Cleric casts either Sound Burst or Searing Light depending on how many party members are active. Basically, he uses Sound Burst if few or none were blinded, and he uses Searing Light otherwise. His Searing Light has the Disruptive feat applied to it at all times thanks to being a Theologian, so he's going to shoot his laser beams at the party's caster(s) first and foremost. He only has two casts, so he'll probably target the same caster twice in hopes of taking that person out. (Sadly, there's only one caster in this particular party, but I may run this dungeon for future parties as well.)

The barbarian keeps on doing what he does best until he's taken out of commission. He'll chug a potion of Cure Moderate Wounds with a move action (thank you Accelerated Drinker) if things get dicey. He only has one of these.

Round 3+

Our cleric casts his remaining offensive spells, then proceeds to wade into the melee with his masterwork morningstar (+6 AB, 1d8+2 damage) - nothing great, but since he'll probably have 24 AC thanks to Shield of Faith he'll be able to take some punishment. The kobolds and barbarian will fight to the bitter end in this particular fight as well (they're all devoted to seeing this cleric through the fight).

My instincts tell me "This guy runs out of options too quickly." He has a whopping total of four spells to cast during the fight, including the surprise round, and his fighting ability in combat isn't that great. That said, his defenses will be solid: +5 Fort, +3 Reflex, +8 Will; 38 HP and 22-24 AC. (11 Touch.)

Thoughts

In order to give him wealth equal to a PC of his level (as appropriate for a boss) and give him a better option for combat after running out of spells, I'm tempted to give him a necklace of fireballs type I. If the party takes him out before then (or after he throws the first fireball), they'll also have a handy last ditch item for future use. This would put his budget just barely over 10,000g.

The character is wearing full plate +1 and a heavy shield +1. I'm considering changing out the full plate +1 for lighter armor so the character can take Selective Channeling rather than Heavy Armor Proficiency. This would allow the character to use healing during the fight, and I could spend the money I would otherwise use on a necklace of fireballs on more gear for the gnoll barbarian.

Any opinions?

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If the party has obvious signs that it's not evil, i.e. a cleric of Sarenrae which can be identified with a Knowledge Religion check on her holy symbol, the cleric shouldn't be wasting it's rounds on anti-evil tactics.


LazarX wrote:
If the party has obvious signs that it's not evil, i.e. a cleric of Sarenrae which can be identified with a Knowledge Religion check on her holy symbol, the cleric shouldn't be wasting it's rounds on anti-evil tactics.

They don't. They have no divine caster, but instead get healed mostly by a Witch and a Bard. There's a paladin in the party, but he doesn't have his holy symbol out in the open.

They're from a nation that's been at war with this cleric's nation a LOT in the past. The cleric hasn't prepared spells specifically to deal with the party, note; the spells on his spell list are for dealing with the monsters located in this dungeon (read: undead).

The cleric will know the party is coming because of kobolds informing him as the party gets nearer.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder PF Special Edition, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Inlaa wrote:
LazarX wrote:
If the party has obvious signs that it's not evil, i.e. a cleric of Sarenrae which can be identified with a Knowledge Religion check on her holy symbol, the cleric shouldn't be wasting it's rounds on anti-evil tactics.

They don't. They have no divine caster, but instead get healed mostly by a Witch and a Bard. There's a paladin in the party, but he doesn't have his holy symbol out in the open.

They're from a nation that's been at war with this cleric's nation a LOT in the past. The cleric hasn't prepared spells specifically to deal with the party, note; the spells on his spell list are for dealing with the monsters located in this dungeon (read: undead).

The cleric will know the party is coming because of kobolds informing him as the party gets nearer.

Keep in mind that best, your cleric will most likely only get one of his ranged attack spells off. I assume that given his spell selection, that he's a negative channeler?


LazarX wrote:
Inlaa wrote:
LazarX wrote:
If the party has obvious signs that it's not evil, i.e. a cleric of Sarenrae which can be identified with a Knowledge Religion check on her holy symbol, the cleric shouldn't be wasting it's rounds on anti-evil tactics.

They don't. They have no divine caster, but instead get healed mostly by a Witch and a Bard. There's a paladin in the party, but he doesn't have his holy symbol out in the open.

They're from a nation that's been at war with this cleric's nation a LOT in the past. The cleric hasn't prepared spells specifically to deal with the party, note; the spells on his spell list are for dealing with the monsters located in this dungeon (read: undead).

The cleric will know the party is coming because of kobolds informing him as the party gets nearer.

Keep in mind that best, your cleric will most likely only get one of his ranged attack spells off. I assume that given his spell selection, that he's a negative channeler?

Positive Channeler was the idea, actually. This is an NPC that would use spells for blasting and channeling for healing; Cure Moderate Wounds is a placeholder for "Non-combat spell he'd have prepared but not actually use in this encounter," so he'd spontaneously convert it into that. Example: Find Traps, Consecrate, Augury. I was tempted to make it an empty slot (so he could spend 15 minutes to prepare the necessary cure spell for anything bad that happens) as would be realistic for an adventuring cleric, but I decided against that.


Wait, isn't full plate +1 (+9 + 1), heavy shield +1 (+2 + 1), +1 dex and a shield of faith (+2) an AC of 26, not 24? Or did I miss something?


7thGate wrote:
Wait, isn't full plate +1 (+9 + 1), heavy shield +1 (+2 + 1), +1 dex and a shield of faith (+2) an AC of 26, not 24? Or did I miss something?

Yes, but there's no guarantee he has Shield of Faith up. He PROBABLY will, but I listed his AC without buffs included.

EDIT: Also I listed the character's touch AC as 13, not 11 as it should be. His armor hinders that. Whoopsie.

EDIT 2: ...Wait. I see. I wrote his base AC as 22, not 24. I - gah, dangit.

And now it's been too long for me to be able to edit that. I apologize, my mistake.


I'd say it depends on how you stack the fight. Distance and initiative will make a big difference.

If there's a trap that will bunch the party up for the initial Burst, and the terrain allows the minions to keep the party from attacking the boss, things could be very dicey for the party.

Suppose you wind up with three blinded PCs. They are out of the fight for practical purposes.

Hitting an L3 caster with the spell you picked out has a good chance to one-shot them.

If the main minion lands a crit in the first or second round, the party might be down to one melee PC.

As long as the party has some PCs with really good saves, AC and HP - not necessarily the same PC, but a decent combination - they have a good chance. But you'd probably do well as GM to gently remind them early on to have escape plans ready any time they get in a big fight.


Those are all good points. Terrain is something I haven't decided on yet - the character is spending a few days among kobolds and paying them to search for his missing party members. (They're a rival but also good/neutral aligned adventuring party.) These kobolds prefer watery areas and the dungeon is an abandoned dwarven city, so I've been leaning toward a hidden base inside an ancient well or a tunnel network with entrances near the canals and so forth. This would make for narrow corridors with a few caves - and also a few sturdier, well-constructed rooms, as these all lead to an old smuggler's hideout.

The exact room the fight happens in is up in the air. What do you suggest for six players, three of whom are well built and three of whom are not?

Silver Crusade

Well, if you want to make the encounter tougher it's easy: just give the Cleric more and better buff spells. You said they would have time to pre-buff. Pre-buffs opportunity is what makes a Cleric really dangerous. For example, replace that 2nd level Cure Moderate Wounds (useless for the Cleric's side due to worse action economy, plus he can spontaneously channel) with Bull's Strength, and cast it on the Barbarian. If the cleric could manage another 2nd level spell then Weapon of Awe on the Barbarian, too.

If the Cleric intends to wade in with his mace (tactically very questionable for a Theologian) he should also start Divine Favor on himself just before the fight starts. Armor is largely useless on this guy, as he'll go down fast once the party has dropped the kobalds and Barbarian.

Buff on both: Bless for +1 morale bonus to hit, +2 AC from Shield of Faith (doesn't stack with Protection from Evil)
Buffs on Cleric: Divine Favor for +1 +1 luck bonus to combat numbers
Buffs on Barbarian (from Cleric): Bull's Strength, Weapon of Awe for +2 to hit and +5 to damage, +1 to hit for masterwork weapon

If you want to make it even nastier then give the Barbarian a reach weapon and have him use rudimentary reach tactics (Kobalds help with this). Using smart tactics is perfectly in line with Rage, so long as it's a thing he's practiced or accustomed to. This will give him several extra attacks and thereby make him a lot more dangerous.

This all makes the Barbarian much deadlier. The cleric only hits for 18 HP average with Searing Light. The Barbarian should be hitting for considerably more than this, possibly with multiple attacks due to readied Action & AoOs.

Is there any possibility either party can stop/prevent the fight? Any Paladin of mine would think twice before slaying a positive-channeling Searing-light casting cleric, although it does happen. It sounds like, if this guy only knew the party better, and vice-versa, he could be diplomatic and avoid the fight. If he has any idea this is an adventuring party then his survival instinct might make him want to be diplomatic. It seems awfully unwise to fight people with whom one might make truce, especially if they are a threat.

I'd say that, if your PCs are competent, the Cleric and his allies are going down hard. Six on two is bad odds. However, the foes hit so hard (Searing Light for 18 HP, Barbarian for 20-25 HP) that anyone hit twice is probably dead. You might look at party HP and see whether any of your 3rd level party can survive two hits. A likely outcome is that one or two PCs will be hit twice, and possibly die, before the party overwhelms the BBEG & team with their superior action economy. Selective Channeling (and any in-combat healing) is totally useless to this Cleric in this fight, because his side has worse action economy. His channels heal for only ~10 HP.


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Is there any possibility either party can stop/prevent the fight? Any Paladin of mine would think twice before slaying a positive-channeling Searing-light casting cleric, although it does happen. It sounds like, if this guy only knew the party better, and vice-versa, he could be diplomatic and avoid the fight. If he has any idea this is an adventuring party then his survival instinct might make him want to be diplomatic. It seems awfully unwise to fight people with whom one might make truce, especially if they are a threat.

That's one of the points of this campaign: a lot of the fights are avoidable. Diplomacy will be difficult, but it IS an option, and they can completely avoid this fight. I just want the fight, if it happens, to be challenging.

The cleric, however, is expecting the PCs are going to try and attack without warning, so he's going to prebuff and prepare for such an attack. They'll see him aglow with buffs when they walk into the room and I'll give them a moment to react before I have him speak.

Essentially, there's been a race war between the PC nation and the NPC's nation for a long time. That's going to make matters complicated, since the barbarian is going to want to pounce on them and eat them alive (literally). The NPCs are a minotaur and a gnoll (my settings' versions).

(If the party avoids fighting these guys now, they'll be scaled up to a higher level eventually and probably get replacement party members from the kobold clan they're staying with... and then end up being an encounter later, likely. See, they and the party are both after a certain McGuffin, but they each want it for THEIR nation. As in, if one nation has it, the other nation CAN'T have it. So... conflict will probably happen with these folks eventually.)

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If you want to make it even nastier then give the Barbarian a reach weapon and have him use rudimentary reach tactics (Kobalds help with this). Using smart tactics is perfectly in line with Rage, so long as it's a thing he's practiced or accustomed to. This will give him several extra attacks and thereby make him a lot more dangerous.

This all makes the Barbarian much deadlier. The cleric only hits for 18 HP average with Searing Light. The Barbarian should be hitting for considerably more than this, possibly with multiple attacks due to an AoO.

I like this idea, and I know you're an advocate of Reach tactics and probably have some good pointers on the matter. Or a thread to point me to. If I go with this, what I'd really like is a form of reach tactics that befits a crazed, frothing style of barbarian. (The barbarian comes from a race of humanoids that's essentially halfway insane - my setting's take on gnolls.) I'll be happy for whatever advice you can give on that.

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Buff on both: Bless for +1 morale bonus to hit, +2 AC from Shield of Faith (doesn't stack with Protection from Evil)

Buffs on Cleric: Divine Favor for +1 +1 luck bonus to combat numbers
Buffs on Barbarian (from Cleric): Bull's Strength, Weapon of Awe for +2 to hit and +5 to damage, +1 to hit for masterwork weapon

Hmm... Using some of the NPCs' wealth on scrolls is an option, so the 2nd level spells on top of the others... Yeah, I can do that. I forgot that Prot. doesn't stack, so I'll just swap that for Divine Favor, yeah.

The gnoll barbarian will probably have a +1 weapon already.

Now, again: if I boost the fight up like so, do you think that would be overwhelming for a 3rd level party of 6? Again, three of the players have competent builds for what they do while three others... not so much. (Namely, the three solidly built characters that are also played well are: a blasty alchemist, a Sacred Shield paladin, and a beat-your-darned-face-in two-handing fighter.)


Give him Selective Channeling so that he isn't just healing up the PC party (if and when he may decide to do that). Also, while the blinding effects are pretty cool, I wonder: are you allowing the use of Hero Pts and the like? I could see that barb putting someone down in one round with a lucky hit, particularly if they're blind and lose their dex to AC. Level 3 rogue: ~20 hp, 13 ac blind: Barb with flail/powerattack/rage (assuming str 18 at this point): +8 attack, d10+12 damage. 75% chance of hit, 25% chance of one-shot. Party will most likely have a front-liner take him on, but if someone (/two or three someones) gets "smart" and tries to rush headlong at the caster, that barb could head right past and mash-up the witch/bard. Of course, if nobody plays the pick-up game, maybe the party deserves a little death-scare.

Otherwise, I see no reason that the PC party should be overwhelmed by this encounter. Once they take that barb out of the equation, it'll wrap up pretty quick. If anything, seems a bit light: I suppose with enough kobolds, that bless spell can stack up the odds a little bit. But hey, if the point isn't to make it an endgame 50/50 win lose scenario, I'd say they should be able to do it, without it being a breeze.

Two questions: does anyone in the party have improved overrun/charge through, and does anyone in the party have a hard CC/spell that could take the cleric out of the fight right away (such as a magus with ye old precise strike/shocking grasp build Edit: or hold person)?

If there is someone with Charge Through, they may be able to overrun the kobold/charge the cleric in round one, with a second overrun attempt or big damage attack on the cleric. (even a modest cmb will break the kobold wall, and a big str barb or buffed paladin might beat out that cleric's lower cmd). Things may get anti-climactic. If so, you may consider throwing in a little difficult terrain around him to make the fight go on another couple of rounds, you know, just to avoid that 1st round charge/knockdown that'd leave him vulnerable.

Silver Crusade

Is the Barbarian on a tight leash? Can the Cleric command the Barbarian to 'protect me', or is the Barbarian a loose cannon who will start the fight himself? That's an important factor. If the Barbarian has reach and blocks for the Cleric it's a very different situation than if the Barbarian mad-rushes the party. If the Barbarian stands in front of the cleric and readies an action to attack the first foe to come within reach that means the Barbarian will get two free attacks on anyone who tries to get at the Cleric. That shuts down hard any possible melee rush against the cleric, and gives more incentive for everyone to talk.

It sounds like the party's best option is to fight and kill these foes right now,good alingment notwithstanding. What will they do if the cleric surrenders?


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Two questions: does anyone in the party have improved overrun,

Not yet, but I think the fighter plans to get it. Likewise, no Charge Through.

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and does anyone in the party have a hard CC/spell that could take the cleric out of the fight right away (such as a magus with ye old precise strike/shocking grasp build)?

The magus SORT OF has that, but not quite. I've been allowing her to weapon finesse a khopesh (since the nation the party is from has some Egyptian themes), but she doesn't have DEX-to-damage on it yet and she doesn't have impressive system mastery. She does do the chop + shocking grasp thing, though.

The party's group is a bit wonky thanks to one of the party members being killed in the tutorial section of the dungeon. Namely, their Sorcerer (who was the hard CCer) got mauled to death by zombies. He's been replaced by an NPC goblin they captured earlier in that tutorial; since he started off as a Rogue and the player chose to multiclass him to Witch he'll be a Rogue 1 / Witch 2 by level 3. The rest of the party is a fighter, a sacred shield paladin, a blasty alchemist, the aforementioned magus, and a CHA-focused bard. So... their hardest CC right now is Sleep. Which is problematic. But they can cast it twice, potentially taking out the kobolds and maybe the gnoll.

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Concering Hero Points

Nah. This is an in-progress megadungeon that's intended to be fairly lethal (while also having opportunities to avoid fights). I explicitly kept myself from giving them hero points to increase the potential lethality of the dungeon. I informed them of such before the game, etc.

This is their first party to delve into the dungeon, and if they die they have other entrances to choose from as a new party. (Six entrances total.)


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Is the Barbarian on a tight leash? Can the Cleric command the Barbarian to 'protect me', or is the Barbarian a loose cannon who will start the fight himself? That's an important factor. If the Barbarian has reach and blocks for the Cleric it's a very different situation than if the Barbarian mad-rushes the party. If the Barbarian stands in front of the cleric and readies an action to attack the first foe to come within reach that means the Barbarian will get two free attacks on anyone who tries to get at the Cleric. That shuts down hard any possible melee rush against the cleric

The way I see it: the barbarian knows to listen to the cleric now. Their other party members have either died or gone missing because they didn't listen to the cleric's advice. He'll be baring his teeth and snarling and threatening the party, but the cleric will clearly be the guy in charge.

Once the fight starts (if it starts), the barbarian may start off the first round with a tactical mindset, but he'll quickly start getting crazed and start fighting like a madman, especially once he takes damage. That's the idea, anyway. I'm willing to adjust, but the barbarian essentially doesn't care if he lives or dies; he just enjoys killing things, eating things, and prefers to kill and eat bad things. Y'know, like undead and humans. (These last few sentences spoken from his perspective, obviously.)

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It sounds like the party's best option is to fight and kill these foes right now, good alingment notwithstanding. What will they do if the cleric surrenders?

That's why I don't know whether they'll try to kill them or not. They have a paladin, and they're generally good aligned, but they don't have any designated party leader and the fighter is EXTREMELY pragmatic. I think they may suspect these characters are meant to be replacement party members, however (which is incorrect), so my gut tells me they'll try and buddy up with these guys. They DEFINITELY want their help dealing with the ghoul threat in the area as well as to deal with a troll mage they suspect is tracking them.


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The appropriateness of this depends a lot upon your group. If they are tactical, scout, prepare, buff, non-glass cannons, experienced, and/or optimize well - it might be pretty easy for them. If however, they tend to just stomp through dungeons with no planning or tactics - this could hurt a lot. I would guess, this is pretty much the limit I would try for most 3rd level groups. But only you really know your group.

This is a kinda 'swingy' boss fight. If several fail the saves on radiance or sound burst, a few barbarian crits, and he hits with a couple of searing light, you could easily have a TPK with this. I'm not necessarily saying that is a bad thing. Just want to make sure you are aware.
I am one of those that tend to believe many games are too easy. You said the players know the 'lethality knob' has been turned up and are ok with it. So I don't see it as a problem.


ack, was typing before your last post, sorry Inlaa;

I'd stay away from giving that barb reach tactics - as Magda says, he'd get two attacks if he were to be more of a buffer-zone between the party and the cleric: But he could also end up killing the party pretty easily if he hits like a truck. If the rear ranks/ranged folks get blinded (low reflex save peoples?) they'll be useless, while the front ranks/first to charge may get double-tapped if they've got a mediocre ac (particularly if blind). The reach gnoll could take standstill (as compared to say, power attack) as another option to prevent a pre-emptive PC kill on a charge - though the party would be stupid to just rush into him, never underestimate how dumb people can be (especially if it's been a long session, and the coke/coffee/redbull has run its course).

Anyway, with 6 pcs, I still feel like it's doable. It's gonna come down to that burst of radiance I think: If he wins the initiative, with a DC of 16, that will likely blind 1/2 to 2/3 of the party, and the fight will be radically different if they/you roll 4 rounds on the blind effect. Chances are, if they can last the initial disorientation of that blind, they'll be spread out and clear it all up without too much hardship.


Hmm. Alright, thanks for the info thus far. I'll tinker with the character sheets a bit and present them once I finish and let you folks judge the barbarian and cleric at that point. I don't know when that'll be, though.

Silver Crusade

Aemesh wrote:
I'd stay away from giving that barb reach tactics - as Magda says, he'd get two attacks ...

This is the same reason why giants in published adventures never use a longspear or other reach weapon :-) If strong monsters use smart tactics it destroys PCs who use poor tactics. Reach tactics are the Barbarian/Giant equivalent of Tucker's Kobolds. Since many players lack any interest or skill in tactics, it's generally a bad idea to set the bar so high that only tactically competent players can succeed. It sounds like this party contains about 50% tactically capable players. Thus, I agree with Aemesh.

I think of monster tactics as a difficulty multiplier dial. Set Monster Tactical Competence to 1 and a 1st level party can defeat a 20th level Wizard. Set Monster Tactical Competence to 10 and a band of kobalds can terrorize a party of 12th level characters. Published adventures generally set the dial between 3 and 5.


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I agree with everyone above. For a decently tough boss fight, set the level around 5. Low level fights like this can be swing-y when you put a SoS caster or a tough damage dealer against them. In this case you've got both, plus a few mooks to help keep party numbers from dominating your encounter.

Reviewing this from the perspective of CR, you've got a 5th level Cleric, 3rd level Barbarian & ~4 Kobolds, right? Your Cleric has PC wealth, while your Barbarian has NPC wealth. Each Kobold is worth 100 exp, the Barbarian is 600 exp (NPC wealth) and the Cleric is 1,600 exp. Matched against 6 level 3 characters, that's 2,600 exp, or 466 exp/character, which is just above the 2,400 target for a CR +2 fight.

It seems like you're communicating with your players, but it wouldn't hurt to reemphasize that it is OK to not fight through all obstacles.

If you want it to be more tense, crank it up to CR3, with a budget of 3,600 exp. Move the Barbarian to PC wealth (+200 exp). Add 4 more Kobolds (+400 exp), possibly as a second wave, and a Kobold leader with class levels (Shaman 2 or Barbarian 2 or Rogue 2) (+400 exp).

If the party seems to be getting overwhelmed quickly, you can have the Cleric call for a parlay, negotiating from a position of strength. If they make all the saves and stop the Barbarian & Kobolds cold, you can have the second wave appear from Kobold tunnels in the walls.

Also, the Kobolds may be willing to fight, but not die, for the Cleric. Use them as trip wires, but as soon as one goes down, have them run, then snip from cover.


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It seems like you're communicating with your players, but it wouldn't hurt to reemphasize that it is OK to not fight through all obstacles.

I'm pretty careful about that, usually.

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Reviewing this from the perspective of CR, you've got a 5th level Cleric, 3rd level Barbarian & ~4 Kobolds, right? Your Cleric has PC wealth, while your Barbarian has NPC wealth. Each Kobold is worth 100 exp, the Barbarian is 600 exp (NPC wealth) and the Cleric is 1,600 exp. Matched against 6 level 3 characters, that's 2,600 exp, or 466 exp/character, which is just above the 2,400 target for a CR +2 fight.

Yeah, this is about right, though I've been looking at doing a couple of the things you suggested. Sorry for the post I deleted a few seconds ago; I honestly did NOT see this paragraph.

I'm going to use your suggestions. I'll amp up the barb's gear a bit, toss in a total of 8 kobolds, and I'm looking at making the kobold leader either an Alchemist or Rogue. I may give the kobolds themselves a few acid flasks.

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Also, the Kobolds may be willing to fight, but not die, for the Cleric. Use them as trip wires, but as soon as one goes down, have them run, then snip from cover.

I'll be making a few rolls to determine that (d100s). Essentially, these kobolds have a motto about "we don't break our word" / "we stay true to our agreements," and they've agreed to protect the cleric as payment for a good deed he did for them.

EDIT: Also, I'm working on the sheets again now that I'm home.


Here they are:

Althar the Lightbearer - Minotaur Theologian 5

Garlak the Mad - Gnoll Barbarian 3

Each has just slightly over PC wealth (by a few hundred gold at most). I didn't include the gnoll's random gear yet (you know: trophies from battle, a backpack, waterskin, rations, a bouncy ball, etc). The minotaur is still in the process of buying whatever foodstuffs he needs from the kobolds and so just has his waterskin in terms of food.

My idea for the gnoll is, as said previously, he'll start the first round using reach tactics. Namely, if they try to skirt just outside his range he'll five foot free step there and swing at their face. (This assumes mostly tight quarters so the kobolds can cover up the flanks.) He has a bite with which he can also make attacks of opportunity. After that, his rage will hit full throttle and he'll start gibbing whatever's his enemy and within ten feet.


hey, its those "Race" races. Nice. Totally want in on this game, or at least to play my hypothetical Frog investigator.

Anyway, lookin good. Please let us know how the fight goes down (or lack thereof if they end up feeling all Disney about it)


Yeah, still trying to dream up something to fix the gnoll race, but I wiped the problematic ability off the board until I can think of one.

I'll post here once they deal with the encounter in some way. I reward XP for both combat and non-combat solutions, so the players are open to diplomacy when they feel it's sensible and pragmatic. It may not be for another couple weeks, however - they may avoid this encounter altogether and shove their noses somewhere else. (The likelihood of them meeting these guys is pretty high, though, since they've had tenuous talks with the kobold clan keeping them hidden.)

EDIT: Also, very open to criticism on these sheets.


Here's a kobold alchemist.

This character has Infusion and has given the gnoll a Long Arm potion to use before the fight begins. This will increase the gnoll's effective reach to 10-15 feet with the bardiche and 5-10 feet with the bite. The gnoll will spend its first round moving into a good position and drinking the potion.

The alchemist will use the first round (preferably the surprise round if there is one) to drink Reduce Person and then will chuck bombs.

Bombs DO critically hit, right? For a plain x2? They're counted as weapons.


Hm. A problem just arose:

So, the Theologian apparently does NOT gain two caster levels for domain SPELLS, just domain POWERS. This complicates things.

Theologian wrote:
All level-dependent effects of the granted powers from the theologian’s domain function as if she were two cleric levels higher than her actual cleric level.

This would lower the character's caster level to 7, making the Searing Light a 3d8. So, I'd like to give the character at least one more caster level.

Does it seem badwrongfun to have a ring that gives a cleric's domain spells +1 caster level? The party doesn't have a cleric now, but if a PC dies they may end up with a replacement cleric NPC in the future.

Dark Archive

Bombs do crit for x2 on a 20, but only the first die is doubled.

Advanced Players Guide wrote:
Bombs are considered weapons and can be selected using feats such as Point-Blank Shot and Weapon Focus. On a direct hit, an alchemist’s bomb inflicts 1d6 points of fire damage + additional damage equal to the alchemist’s Intelligence modifier. The damage of an alchemist’s bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike)

I like the ring idea.

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