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This should be moved to the PFS board
I'd be very surprised if it was made legal in the Core PFS Campaign. And probably be rather appalled (I am guessing that the power level will be comparable to recent material and NOT to the CRB).
As to the Regular Campaign, who knows? My vague guess is that it will either be nearly 100% legal or nearly 100% illegal. No idea which.
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I am wondering what do people think the follow through of the release of Pathfinder unchained with be on Pathfinder society. I mean I believe the developers have stated that the new material is not errata but new material so does that means a new material it will not be allowed in the PFS core only games (as it is no content) even though it is meant to balance and make the system better.
What about normal PFS will the Old classes and new classes live side by side, so could you have a presumably much weaker unchained summoner in the same party as a traditional summoner? How do people think it will play out?
I am inclined to say that Unchained will either be 100% illegal for PFS or best case, a few things will be allowed, but side-by-side with the normal version.
I just don't see PFS surviving if all players that play __________ will be both required to purchase a new book and also totally rebuild their character ground up just to keep playing. If we had any hope that the Summoner would be fixed or banned, it would have been done so already, and long ago. If Unchained does actually fix it, it is going to remove all the things that it's fans like about the class, and I doubt practically anyone would be interesting in playing it. There is also the issue that all the published stat blocks would need to be fixed, and like I said, would essentially require Unchained to be essential for PFS play.
All in all, it sounds like a Lose/Lose situation for everyone.
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Let's say that unchained does some things that have been bandied about for years on these boards and other places and redesigns a number of classes for sake of brevity I'll choose 1 the gets better and 1 that stays good but not as good.
1. Brings Rogues more in line with the PFS power curve (let's say for sake of argument, making them full BAB or something)
2. Also, makes summoners somewhat less powerful (I'm not sure how, but still good just not so easy to make game-breaking)
Now you have two versions of legal rogues and legal summoners how do they get incorporated? Do you allow both to be played? Do you allow one to overwrite the other, and if you do who do you grandfather/allow rebuilds/etc?
(I'm inclined to agree with DM Beckett's post above btw, though I could see an argument made for Unchained to become part of the Core Assumption, and allowing current to have their choice of old or new versions and new characters being only the new version.)
I would be very surprised if PFS does anything other than ban Pathfinder Unchaimed in its entirety. After all, did the WotC "Living" campaigns ever use anything from Unearthed Arcana?
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I would be very surprised if PFS does anything other than ban Pathfinder Unchaimed in its entirety. After all, did the WotC "Living" campaigns ever use anything from Unearthed Arcana?
While I understand your conclusion, PFS is a different game with different staff, but I wouldn't bet on a full ban of Pathfinder Unchained.
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I'm guessing side by side in PFS Classic and banned from core. At least I hope so. I am looking forward to playing a rogue that is decent without relying on obscure rules and archetypes that I have to explain every session. I am looking forward to a summoner that has a redesigned spell list and an eidolon that isn't stronger than most pcs. I'm looking forward to a barbarian that isn't a berserker.
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I envision PFS will treat Unchained classes as errata or playtest characters. Some get grandfathered in, but new characters must go with this route. I know it isn't technically an errata, but that is how I imagine it will be handled. In the case of errata you also do not have to buy an updated book, you just need to have the errata with your original book. Though I doubt it, there could even be a PRD version of the accepted rules (like the traits web enhancement or the tech guide).
If it is treated as an errata the barbarian, fighter, monk rogue will be allowed in core, while the summoner would not.
I think the other options (especially new combat) will only happen in some scenarios.
I think if you bring the hardcover to the table and use it--as others have suggested--as a serving tray to bring Mike a beer, you will get a free-reroll.
I imagine if you use an unchained version of the class (and have brought enough beers) you can unlock your replays stars for that character.
We can all imagine right?
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Where do you guys read about these changes to classes? Is there a playtest going on, I'm not aware of?
...and no, please don't do a 2nd edition of Pathfinder anytime soon...
Personally, my guesses are based mostly on old posts and comments that have been made by a few Designers and Contributors, not even necessarily ones that had anything to do with Unchained (alongside some personal wishes). Though, I would bet good money that there are people (non-Paizo employees I mean) who actually have accurate information. (and no there is no playtest I'm aware of either, but a number of things come out to small parts of the community to get their feedback ahead of time)
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Where do you guys read about these changes to classes? Is there a playtest going on, I'm not aware of?
...and no, please don't do a 2nd edition of Pathfinder anytime soon...
Unchained. The discussion thread is 900+ posts long, but is mostly speculation. The folks at PaizoCon did have to sign an NDA for a workshop about 'an upcoming product.'
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Honestly, I just hope we get a Pathfinder 2nd Ed soon. Unchained is just one more band aid on the mountain of band aids.The last thing this game needs is a 2nd edition.
Agreed. The game is VERY dependant on having a minimum number of geeks close enough to congregate in a table all playing the same game at the same time.
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Agreed. The game is VERY dependant on having a minimum number of geeks close enough to congregate in a table all playing the same game at the same time.Honestly, I just hope we get a Pathfinder 2nd Ed soon. Unchained is just one more band aid on the mountain of band aids.The last thing this game needs is a 2nd edition.
Totally agree.
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Doubtful. Those with this sort of phobia will probably stay with what they like or move on and enjoy. It will not fracture the fan base any more than Unchained will, or the ACG did, or the APG before that, or the move from 3.5 to PF before that.
Those that follow PF products for the story will continue to do so.
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Arguing about a new edition is a thread derail.
Speaking from a position of no insider knowledge whatsoever, I expect Unchained will be completely ignored by the Core Campaign, and I hope Unchained's reworked classes will exist side-by-side with their "classic" versions in the Normal Campaign. But again, I know nothing.
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It doesn't matter how much you test or how "good" it is. What it will do is fracture the player base and cause nothing but grief.Patfhinder 2 would require a pretty epic beta test, and I suspect, that players would only be willing to adapt, if enough of their personal bugbears are slain.
Pathfinder Unchained will be a nice test.
That's what people were saying about the PFS CORE. It hasn't happened yet.
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Not at all. It could be something that brings the Core Book material more in line with everything that came out later. Or simply finally fixes a lot of the mechanical issues that have always existed, CMB not keeping up with CMD, Stealth, or whatever.
That is almost universally what happens with new editions, and really the only example I can think of where things are incompatible from one edition to the next is some of D&D, where its almost more accurate to say they are really not new editions and instead totally different products with some thematic similarities.
But even then, 1st & 2nd are fairly compatible, and 3.0 and 3.5 are very compatible.
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So, can we get back to conjecture on how Unchained may/may not be implemented in PFS?
I'm kind of hoping there is at least the *option* to go to the new versions of the class. One way trip, of course. I don't see how that's any different than having an Alternate Class or content heavy archetype. You need to have the book and make it clear "Hi GM! I'm playing the Unchained Summoner/Rogue/Monk/Etc. I have the book here if you have any questions!".
Most of this is because I'm hearing talk the Unchained Summoner helps folks build more tightly themed summoners and that sounds fun. I also have a PC coming down the pipe I'd love to play with the new Monk bits on.
Of course, there is always the chance that the alternate changes are too much from a system balance standpoint (and rules bloat) and they remain the realm of "alternate rules" (like Words of Power) we simply can't use in PFS.
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That's what people were saying about the PFS CORE. It hasn't happened yet.It doesn't matter how much you test or how "good" it is. What it will do is fracture the player base and cause nothing but grief.Patfhinder 2 would require a pretty epic beta test, and I suspect, that players would only be willing to adapt, if enough of their personal bugbears are slain.
Pathfinder Unchained will be a nice test.
I don't have any worries about PFS Core. But it is *way* too soon to know what its ultimate effects are, one way or the other.
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Personally, my hope is that for the Rogue and Summoner, they 100% supersede the original, (notice I said "hope", not "belief"). I've never really bought into the belief that the Rogue is underpowered, nor really even the Fighter.
I honestly do not understand the Barbarian being included in the book at all, so beyond that, I have no opinion on that front. The "Ok I rage, now MATH!!!!!!!! NO!!!!!!" argument is absolutely foreign to me.
If it brings other Core Classes in line with the APG and ACG, I'd be happy, but one would think if this where to be the case that would be part of the products tag line right after "we nerfixed the Summoner". It wasn't so I'm not even half counting on that.
So, in all reality, I just don't honestly see much change at all in regard to this book. It's been mentioned a few times it IS NOT Unearthed Arcana for Pathfinder. It's main selling point is fixing the Rogue, Barbarian, Monk, Fighter, and Summoner, only 2 of which have every really been a notable issue (Monk and Summoner, different reasons), and only one of which has not already been fixed, (Summoner, Paizo is far, far to proud to admit the f~!@ed the hell up, so instead "it's more like we had in mind").
So again, for PFS specifically, they KNOW they can't endure the infinite winning of all the Summoner players and powers behind the throne, and I predict that the "fix" to the Fighter and Monk will have nothing to do with the actual classes and entirely to do with changing the basic rules of the game, and thus be far, far too much to require as all DM's must own and know this book to apply it, my prediction is that it will AT BEST be a "trap option" that is allowed side-by-side with the normal versions, but only in a few specific cases.
Honestly, I eagerly await being proven wrong, I just don't have any faith that I will. Challenge Issued.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If it brings other Core Classes in line with the APG and ACG, I'd be happy, but one would think if this where to be the case that would be part of the products tag line right after "we nerfixed the Summoner". It wasn't so I'm not even half counting on that.
•New versions of the barbarian, monk, rogue, and summoner classes, all revised to make them more balanced and easier to play.
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If it brings other Core Classes in line with the APG and ACG, I'd be happy, but one would think if this where to be the case that would be part of the products tag line right after "we nerfixed the Summoner". It wasn't so I'm not even half counting on that.
If it brings other Core Classes in line with the APG and ACG, I'd be happy, but one would think if this where to be the case that would be part of the products tag line. It wasn't so I'm not even half counting on that.
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It will be interesting to see the unchained take on the monk, although the current one is fine (with archetypes and feats).
But especially for new players it's nice for a class to "just work" without having to take the "correct" archetypes or feats. It makes character creation much easier knowing that no matter what options you pick you'll have a decently powered character. This allows for more focus on other parts of the game instead of making sure a character concept has a basic level of competence.
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After going through Unchained, I'm hoping they essentially do covert the classes over to their newer forms.
I imagine GMs will be much happier supporting the new summoner vs the old summoner as it really is more balanced. And if you're a player of a summoner, I wager you'd be happy that GMs stop groaning when you sit down to play at your table or make comments about evolution points likely being wrong.
One thing as I dig into Unchained that I'm also a fan of hitting PFS is the Skill Unlocks section in its entirety. Pathfinder really became a game about "decorating skills" (i.e. putting a point into as many as you can to get the +3 bonus). A lot of the skill unlocks are pretty spectacular (standing up from prone without AoOs? yes please!). I think this would only benefit the game as folks actually seek to get 5 ranks, then 10 ranks in skills whereas now their total bonus is usually "good enough for anything in PFS" and they move on.
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But will the skill unlocks be worth it? PFS is a 1-12 environment. The second hand description of the system that I've been hearing is that the 'good' skill unlocks don't happen until level 15 and 20.
Edit and Disclaimer: I've been following the unchained threads in the general discussion forum pretty closely, but that's my only source of knowledge. Like Aaron Motta said, I know nothing.
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I'm tempted to roll up an information broker named Nothing. He'll have a scribe companion (via prestige) named Everyone, who will share his opinion on a wide variety of topics.
"You know nothing. Everyone says it."
"Well I should hope Everyone says so. We all just had lunch last week. Don't you know Nothing? Right handy to know'm."
"..."