"Do ability modifiers from the same ability stack? For instance, can you add the same ability bonus on the same roll twice using two different effects that each add that same ability modifier?
No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.
posted Oct 17, 2014 | back to top"
You said you'd found it earlier, so I took you at your word.
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IMHO the biggest problem with slashing / fencing grace is the pigeonholing effect it has on weapon choice. Why the devs would restrict weapon choice from iconic dex weapons, such as a dagger or short-spear, but allow odd choices like a battleaxe, is beyond me. The only reason I can see is for more splat feats that should really all just be one feat that allows dex to damage.
IMHO the biggest problem with slashing / fencing grace is the pigeonholing effect it has on weapon choice. Why the devs would restrict weapon choice from iconic dex weapons, such as a dagger or short-spear, but allow odd choices like a battleaxe, is beyond me. The only reason I can see is for more splat feats that should really all just be one feat that allows dex to damage.
The Devs have already said that Slashing Grace is going to receive Errata, and it sounds like it'll hit several, finesseable light weapons. They may stick hard to the "Slashing" quality, but that'll still allow for plenty of light weapons to get the effect.
The Devs have already said that Slashing Grace is going to receive Errata, and it sounds like it'll hit several, finesseable light weapons.
That's incorrect; there's no pending errata for Slashing Grace. What was said was this:
Slashing Grace not counting for light weapons is, I can only hope, an error that will be eventually cleared up in an errata... although that's not my call, alas. My assumption is that this text was initially meant to say something like "choose any one-handed or smaller slashing weapon," since there are no flavor reasons to prevent swashbucklers from using light slashing weapons, and since light weapons do less damage than one-handed ones I can't think of a game balance reason to limit it as well. But again... not my call. FAQ the question though, and maybe it'll get fixed!!!
So a dev who wasn't involved in the writing of this feat wishes it would be errata'ed. Also bear in mind, this was said last September. While this doesn't preclude errata being made later, it certainly doesn't suggest you'll see slashing grace altered to allow for light weapons any time soon.
doesn't matter, rogue are getting dex to damage, rogue talent apparently in unchained...RIP slashing grace.
Why would rogue talents matter to anyone who isn't playing a rogue? Anyone can take a feat, rogue or otherwise. Also, anyone can wield a weapon with the agile enchantment (again rogues included), which was available before Slashing Grace was ever a thing.
The Devs have already said that Slashing Grace is going to receive Errata, and it sounds like it'll hit several, finesseable light weapons.That's incorrect; there's no pending errata for Slashing Grace. What was said was this:
Slashing Grace not counting for light weapons is, I can only hope, an error that will be eventually cleared up in an errata... although that's not my call, alas. My assumption is that this text was initially meant to say something like "choose any one-handed or smaller slashing weapon," since there are no flavor reasons to prevent swashbucklers from using light slashing weapons, and since light weapons do less damage than one-handed ones I can't think of a game balance reason to limit it as well. But again... not my call. FAQ the question though, and maybe it'll get fixed!!!So a dev who wasn't involved in the writing of this feat wishes it would be errata'ed. Also bear in mind, this was said last September. While this doesn't preclude errata being made later, it certainly doesn't suggest you'll see slashing grace altered to allow for light weapons any time soon.
Here is what was said from the other thread.
This was on our list to consider. I believe that if you are using / were hoping to use the feat with a weapon that was published in a Pathfinder RPG line book, such as a kukri, you are quite likely to be happier with the errata than the original version.Any chance Slashing Grace can be errata'd to include light weapons? Right now it's in the awkward position of not actually affecting any weapon finessable weapon.
At level 1 I take Weapon Finesse and my Kukri so that I can be cool and dex to attack with my Kukri! Then I take Slashing Grace at level 3 and I can use Dex to DMG on a Scimitar, Longsword, ect, but not that Kukri that I've been using up till now. If I pick up a longsword I get str to attack and dex to damage.
Meanwhile in Rapier Town I can take weapon Finesse and Fencing Grace to get dex to attack and damage on a rapier.
So there WILL be an errata for it.
So there WILL be an errata for it.
Ah, my bad! (Link for anyone who wants to see the original text.)
mostly meant the feat is going to become one of those feats that nobody ever picks down the line. Like most people don't pick cosmopolitan.
Please review my previous response: you still haven't addressed the fact that this will only impact characters with 2+ rogue levels who'd rather use a talent to do this rather over feats or gold. Anyone without rogue levels will see zero benefit from a new rogue talent mimicking this ability - this includes dex-based fighters, magi, bards, monks, swashbucklers, etc. In a great many circumstances, I'd wager a feat or some gold is far cheaper than a 2 level dip in rogue.
Please review my previous response: you still haven't addressed the fact that this will only impact characters with 2+ rogue levels who'd rather use a talent to do this rather over feats or gold. Anyone without rogue levels will see zero benefit from a new rogue talent mimicking this ability - this includes dex-based fighters, magi, bards, monks, swashbucklers, etc. In a great many circumstances, I'd wager a feat or some gold is far cheaper than a 2 level dip in rogue.
Except that you're discounting that a 2-level dip into Rogue will get you Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, the trick to get Dex to Damage as well, 1d6 Sneak Attack, plus potentially several Hampering abilities (like not allowing your opponent to move, etc.), and abilities that increase your accuracy (we know these abilities exist - we just don't know when the Rogue gains them).
A Number of builds already dip 1 level into Swashbuckler or Daring Champion simply for Swashbuckler's/Champion's Finesse, with Grit & Opportune Parry & Riposte being major icing on the cake for many if they go Swashbuckler; several stay 2 levels into Daring Champion just to get the Order ability at level 2 as well.
Don't say "2 levels of Rogue isn't worth it" until we see the changes made to the Unchained Rogue - it could actually be worth taking for several levels, honestly, especially with Rogues getting unique tricks based on their chosen Skills.
Except that you're discounting that a 2-level dip into Rogue will get you Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, the trick to get Dex to Damage as well, 1d6 Sneak Attack, plus potentially several Hampering abilities (like not allowing your opponent to move, etc.), and abilities that increase your accuracy (we know these abilities exist - we just don't know when the Rogue gains them).
(emphasis mine) I hope you're not referring to the Finesse Rogue trick, as this would mean "free" Weapon Finesse and Dex to Damage are mutually exclusive with only two levels of Rogue. I'm not aware of any archetypes to correct this issue, so enlighten me if I am missing something. (I could sell 1 level of fighter as being a lot of different things too, but if I'm only talking about one bonus feat slot, it's only worth one feat.)
Don't say "2 levels of Rogue isn't worth it"...
I did not - what I said was:
In a great many circumstances, I'd wager a feat or some gold is far cheaper than a 2 level dip in rogue.
This is to be differentiated from:
mostly meant the feat is going to become one of those feats that nobody ever picks down the line.
(Again, emphasis mine.) Of course, it would be unreasonable not to allow for hyperbole, but do not presume to make my position the one I've argued against.
Except that you're discounting that a 2-level dip into Rogue will get you Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, the trick to get Dex to Damage as well, 1d6 Sneak Attack, plus potentially several Hampering abilities (like not allowing your opponent to move, etc.), and abilities that increase your accuracy (we know these abilities exist - we just don't know when the Rogue gains them).(emphasis mine) I hope you're not referring to the Finesse Rogue trick, as this would mean "free" Weapon Finesse and Dex to Damage are mutually exclusive with only two levels of Rogue. I'm not aware of any archetypes to correct this issue, so enlighten me if I am missing something. (I could sell 1 level of fighter as being a lot of different things too, but if I'm only talking about one bonus feat slot, it's only worth one feat.)
You really, really, REALLY need to start doing better research before you start responding, dude:
Rogue: The original rogue has plenty of skill points and a damage increase in the form of sneak attack, but she needed a way to rule her own niche, especially with all the other classes that have things like big skill bonuses and accuracy boosts. The unchained rogue has a powerful debilitation ability that dramatically alters her ability to hit or dodge her foe, rogue's edge, which allows her to do unique things with her favorite skills (figure out surface thoughts with Sense Motive, Bluff so well you bypass truth-telling magic, use Disable Device reactively to protect yourself from a triggered trap, and much more!), and a significant boost to some of her rogue talents (For instance, minor magic? Yeah, you get that cantrip at-will). She also gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat and the ability to add her Dexterity to weapon damage!
EXACTLY what I said - the Rogue will now get Finesse as a BONUS FEAT, period, as part of the Class.
Unless this blog is HORRENDOUSLY misleading, every Rogue will get Finesse as a Bonus Feat, probably at 1st level (given how these things tend to play out in Class design), without having to spend a Rogue Talent on it.
Finesse Rogue, therefore, may get an entirely-new wording, or else it'll be there for Archetypes that trade out Finesse (like how Alchemists can still select Mutagen as a Discovery).
You really, really, REALLY need to start doing better research before you start responding, dude:
It's normally customary to post links to facilitate said research or at the very least (informally) indicate that you're citing a source (as you might note I've done every time I made a new claim), but your criticism is accepted.
It will be interesting to see where this rogue reworking goes.